Teen shoots at policeman. Cop shoots back and kills teen. Protests begin.

[The Merg]

The camera issue was to setup the loss of credibility of these departments. Ferguson had the cameras but never deployed them. Should off duty officers be wearing a camera? If they are allowed the power of the state in their off duty position. I think so.

Generally, if police are working off-duty, they have the enforcement powers authorized by the off-duty position. That's not to say that if they see a crime occurring outside the scope of the off-duty position they can't take action as a law enforcement officer.

Now I would agree that if the officer was in uniform for the off-duty position and body cams were required, the officer should have the body cam on. However, if the off-duty position was something completely separate from their police job, I'm not sure about that. If they had to then how would that be any different than when a cop is walking around off-duty and ends up taking police action? Do cops then need to wear body cams 24/7 because they might take police action at any time?

- Merg

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Corn beef ruben or turkey and swiss on rye???

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ask yourself why so many threads on black teens being shot by primarily white officers? Merit or not it happens at alarming rates.

I have no doubt that white cops shoot blacks and sometimes it's malicious or with poor reason.

I also know that the rates of violent crimes by blacks is disproportionately higher. I'd also bet that there are more white police than black. That immediately creates a perception problem aside from merit. What I never hear about is when black officers shoot blacks, but AFAIK there hasn't been evidence that black officers treat people differently than white ones. If a violent person was attacking you do you want to the police to check the race of the perp and not shoot if he's black? That would even out the statistics.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Or media reporting. Would like to see some legitimate stats.

From the Feds, not Ferguson.

Sad but true.

 

[rudeguy]

I have no doubt that white cops shoot blacks and sometimes it's malicious or with poor reason.

I also know that the rates of violent crimes by blacks is disproportionately higher. I'd also bet that there are more white police than black. That immediately creates a perception problem aside from merit. What I never hear about is when black officers shoot blacks, but AFAIK there hasn't been evidence that black officers treat people differently than white ones. If a violent person was attacking you do you want to the police to check the race of the perp and not shoot if he's black? That would even out the statistics.

I 100% agree with you but I think you are missing one important piece: a large number of cops are afraid of black people. If a cop is dealing with someone he isn't afraid of, he isn't going to be quick to shoot. However so many of these cops are afraid of black people for whatever reason, they are on edge. There are too many shootings of unarmed black people to dispute that. A black kid reaches for his license? SHOOT HIM! A black kid is in a house where white people live? MACE HIM!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I 100% agree with you but I think you are missing one important piece: a large number of cops are afraid of black people. If a cop is dealing with someone he isn't afraid of, he isn't going to be quick to shoot. However so many of these cops are afraid of black people for whatever reason, they are on edge. There are too many shootings of unarmed black people to dispute that. A black kid reaches for his license? SHOOT HIM! A black kid is in a house where white people live? MACE HIM!

As I said whenever there is abuse of authority then it needs to be harshly dealt with, but I have been beaten by police as a young teen and I'm not black. There was no outrage for me.

Even so I do not automatically assume that every cop is bad or every cop is going to shoot, black or not. In this case there is sufficient cause to believe the police in this matter. The cousin says it was a sandwich. Protests follow because the cop was white and like many here they assume the cop must be guilty. I think not.

 

[highland145]

From the Feds, not Ferguson.

Sad but true.

I meant for white cops shooting blacks and vise versa.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I meant for white cops shooting blacks and vise versa.

Ahh, gotcha. Black officers aren't subject to the same scrutiny as whites, although I doubt have no reason to believe that there's little shooting based on race difference.

 

[JackBurton]

I 100% agree with you but I think you are missing one important piece: a large number of cops are afraid of black people. If a cop is dealing with someone he isn't afraid of, he isn't going to be quick to shoot. However so many of these cops are afraid of black people for whatever reason, they are on edge. There are too many shootings of unarmed black people to dispute that. A black kid reaches for his license? SHOOT HIM! A black kid is in a house where white people live? MACE HIM!

For whatever reason? Try looking at the crime statistics and you'll find your reason. Why aren't Asians being "abused" by police? Weird.

The longer you ignore the elephant in the room, the longer it will take to fix the problem. I'll give you a hint though, the police aren't the problem.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

For whatever reason? Try looking at the crime statistics and you'll find your reason. Why aren't Asians being "abused" by police? Weird.

The longer you ignore the elephant in the room, the longer it will take to fix the problem. I'll give you a hint though, the police aren't the problem.

The problems are harder to deal with than it is to blame the police. There's a whole lot of things which need to happen but that requires something like, oh, jobs for example and a bunch of other issues which aren't all specific to blacks. That's the real elephant. The problems require skill, leadership, and resources, all of which need to be applied in concert. Our system is miserably suited for the challenge so it's point the finger.

 

[Newell Steamer]

So, we've got:
1) Internet Law Enforcement Armchair experts who DEMAND the police be perfect;
a. shooting guns out of hands
b. not being properly equipped, but skilled to handle any situation (all you need is your badge, a button down shirt and a 6 shooter)
c. be reserved - at all times - even if their life is in danger
d. don't harm anyone, ever, for any reason,.. you are the police, you must enforce the law, without harming/hurting anyone, ever, for any reason

2) The public who expects the police to not do ANYTHING when crimes are committed. Because in doing so, they are clearly racial profiling or oppressing the constitutional abiding good folks of the compound.

3) Actual, legitimate, bad cops who are and / or;
a. unskilled, out of shape bozos
b. evil people that just want to harm and oppress people

4) Actual, legitimate, good cops who do great things, but are immediately naysayed by #1 & 2, because of #3

None of this is rational - at all. The police are held against criteria and expectations that don't make a lick of sense.

Bottom line; when someone or something can't do anything right - regardless of the situation at hand - the problem is not said something,.. it is the critics of said something. There are some REALLY miserable people on this planet, and yes, some are indeed cops,.. but, most are cop haters.

 

[FerrelGeek]

True, unless he reloaded. Not sure what the requirement is there with regard to a firearm used for off-duty, but around here the police use their duty weapon, which have night sights.

Does anyone know what the duty weapon is for St. Louis PD?

- Merg

The duty weapon varies by department. In some cases, a cop gets to choose from a list of qualified guns and is not restricted to a 'one size fits all' weapon.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4170936

http://www.quora.com/Do-law-enforcement-officers-choose-their-own-weapons-and-gear

 

[The Merg]

The duty weapon varies by department. In some cases, a cop gets to choose from a list of qualified guns and is not restricted to a 'one size fits all' weapon.



http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4170936



http://www.quora.com/Do-law-enforcement-officers-choose-their-own-weapons-and-gear

Right. That's why I was asking what St. Louis PD uses.

- Meeg

 

[soulcougher73]

LOL They are playing the Skittles Card now. He had a sammich in his hand!!!

 

[JackBurton]

The problems are harder to deal with than it is to blame the police. There's a whole lot of things which need to happen but that requires something like, oh, jobs for example and a bunch of other issues which aren't all specific to blacks. That's the real elephant. The problems require skill, leadership, and resources, all of which need to be applied in concert. Our system is miserably suited for the challenge so it's point the finger.

Money and jobs aren't the problem. You don't have to have money to have integrity. I had two Vietnamese friends in highschool that were so poor it wasn't even funny. However, they went to a private school (they worked after school to pay for their own tuition) and basically destroyed just about every kid in that school when it came to grades. There was no complaining why "white kids got this or white kids got that." They just focused on their goal, and it was to get perfect scores in every course. Now mind you, one of those classes was ENGLISH where they clearly had a disadvantage to the other students, but for some weird reason, they were top of the class in that course as well. I had A LOT of respect for those 2 kids, and I'm sure they aren't out protesting for equally rights for Vietnamese now. The key to their success was a strong family unit, and a focus on education that was unmatched. Nothing else mattered, and failure and excuses were unacceptable.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Right. That's why I was asking what St. Louis PD uses.

- Meeg

Understood, but I wasn't sure if they require their cops to only carry a department issued weapon. Frankly, if I were a cop I want to carry a weapon that I was really comfortable using. Glocks have a loyal fan base, but I know people who, in spite of practice, can't shoot them for sh*t. This was the case for the brother of a former coworker of mine. He was a cop and hated Glocks cuz he just wasn't overly accurate with one. But put a Springfield in his hand and he won several shooting competitions.

 

[soulcougher73]

Curious to hear how many of the 17 bullets the cop fired hit.

Well in the other thread i believe he fired 5 shots at point blank range to guy getting his license and hit once. So if that is any indication their should be 3.4 bullets in this guy Well that is assuming he was point blank. If they had some distance we could guess maybe 1.2 bullets?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Right. That's why I was asking what St. Louis PD uses.

- Meeg

For those who want the horses mouth

The podcast says it's the 92F

 

[The Merg]

Understood, but I wasn't sure if they require their cops to only carry a department issued weapon. Frankly, if I were a cop I want to carry a weapon that I was really comfortable using. Glocks have a loyal fan base, but I know people who, in spite of practice, can't shoot them for sh*t. This was the case for the brother of a former coworker of mine. He was a cop and hated Glocks cuz he just wasn't overly accurate with one. But put a Springfield in his hand and he won several shooting competitions.

Generally, if they are working off duty in uniform, they need to use their duty weapon. If the department allows off-duty work where they can be out of uniform, such as a security gig, they can generally use their own firearm.

- Merg

 

[soulcougher73]

Could it be that black teens are committing crimes at an alarming rate? Nah, I'm sure that's not it.

Wait a minute. Are you telling me that mostly black inner city shit holes have a lot of gun and crime rates? I dont believe it....:hmm:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Generally, if they are working off duty in uniform, they need to use their duty weapon. If the department allows off-duty work where they can be out of uniform, such as a security gig, they can generally use their own firearm.

- Merg

That's where the uncertainty lies. The rules for off duty may not apply in this specific instance and I can't find any information about that. 17 rounds suggests a 9mm as most likely, but that 's not a guarantee.

 

[The Merg]

That's where the uncertainty lies. The rules for off duty may not apply in this specific instance and I can't find any information about that. 17 rounds suggests a 9mm as most likely, but that 's not a guarantee.

Yeah, I was trying to see what the standard mag size was for the Beretta and seems to be a 10 round mag.

We don't know if the officer was in uniform or not, which might answer some questions.

- Merg

 

[Moonbeam]

Black gangs are like the Republican party, the brains defective response to fear, the egotistical tough-guy-face folk put on who were intimidated as children, the collection into irrational and violent groups that thrive on the buddy feeling of adrenalin and testosterone driven apes hooting and throwing sandwiches at all that terrifies them from the branches of trees. The creation and presence of the other is how we keep from noticing that the other is ourselves. Where there is fear, you will find the CBD. It doesn't care what color your skin is. You cannot change the ego manifestation of those who feel persecution because the game of self hate is always to save face. It's natures way of surviving the emotional abuse of childhood, the certainty and security provided by [group, gang] think.

 

[JackBurton]

Wait a minute. Are you telling me that mostly black inner city shit holes have a lot of gun and crime rates? I dont believe it....:hmm:

Coincidentally, that's where these police shooting take place. Obviously the only logical answer to this is, racist cops love working in these neighborhoods to take out their racist aggression on these innocent people. And to protest, the community will loot and steal from their own neighborhood to show their displeasure. That is the ONLY time the loot and steal though. Prior to the shooting incident, it was a very peaceful community with little to no crime.

Another tactic of the white man is artificially inflating crime statistics in these black neighborhoods. I mean that's how racists these cops are. They spend most of their time trying to frame the black man. It's crazy I tell you.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Money and jobs aren't the problem. You don't have to have money to have integrity. I had two Vietnamese friends in highschool that were so poor it wasn't even funny. However, they went to a private school (they worked after school to pay for their own tuition) and basically destroyed just about every kid in that school when it came to grades. There was no complaining why "white kids got this or white kids got that." They just focused on their goal, and it was to get perfect scores in every course. Now mind you, one of those classes was ENGLISH where they clearly had a disadvantage to the other students, but for some weird reason, they were top of the class in that course as well. I had A LOT of respect for those 2 kids, and I'm sure they aren't out protesting for equally rights for Vietnamese now. The key to their success was a strong family unit, and a focus on education that was unmatched. Nothing else mattered, and failure and excuses were unacceptable.

They also more than likely had a Tiger Mom that ensured they put in the time to learn the subject matter. All the Asian moms in the neighborhood that have kids the same age as mine crack the whip when it comes to doing homework and projects for their classes. Every time one of mine complains about doing homework I let them know the other moms had offered to let them study with their kids, it shuts them up and their get to their homework.