Teen rejected by Ivy League schools writes controversial op-ed

brainhulk

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2007
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...al-op-ed-ivy-league-schools-article-1.1308211

In her article she blamed not getting into the schools on the fact that she was not 'diverse' enough, and she even accused her parents of giving up on her because she is the last of four children.
She started out with an attack on diversity, suggesting that her white skin, business-owner parents and good education worked against her in the application process.

'What could I have done differently over the past years?' she wrote. 'For starters, had I known two years ago what I know now, I would have gladly worn a headdress to school. Show me to any closet, and I would've happily come out of it.

do you guys think her rage has merit?










This is your second thread with a false thread title.

I will say this once.


STOP



esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,903
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umad?

i'm sure she got accepted into plenty of other schools. just go there instead. most of college is what you make of it, IMO, as opposed to just going to a "big name" school.


also, blaming her parents? lollerskates.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,423
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4.5 GPA, an SAT score of 2120 and experience as a U.S. Senate page under her belt

I can understand being upset and feeling cynical about the process if that doesn't get you in these days.
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
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I laugh at over 4.0 gpa shit they do these days especially in HS with no regulation in some.
 
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Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
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Haven't read this article and don't know if her specific case has any merit or not.

What I do know, is that there really is a very strong drive in this nation to vigorously pursue "diversity" for it's own sake. Universities and corporations alike are desperate to be able to fill up their brochures with enough faces of different types. There are also incentives and penalties built into the system at this point for having or not having enough "diversity."

This can ONLY be accomplished at the expense of (particularly heterosexual) (particularly male) whites. No other way to make it happen. Because they are the ones designated as the only "non-diverse" candidates. And they still represent a numerically large group comprising a majority of applications, typically.

Meritocracy is clearly the way to go, because the alternative fills our society with people who often end up in positions they really didn't belong in. And no, for the dumbasses, I'm not saying "people of color" etc never belong in prominent or important positions. They absolutely do, sometimes... but there are a lot of people who are getting ahead without deserving to, or proving they can operate in certain fields at certain levels... because the shiny lure of how "diverse" they were made the people making the decisions either consciously or subconsciously overlook those problems.

Shit like this is built into the system so deeply now... there's a ton of it that is officially sanctioned, and then there are a ton of other practices which are done on the sly.

Recently I saw someone recalling a story of how, at university, they had a professor who detested them for having conservative views. He was a white guy and this (I believe white female) professor had locked horns with him many times throughout the class. He apparently missed a test which was going to destroy his grade, due to something unavoidable... but she would simply not let him make up the test, end of story. Well, apparently he tutored a few of the black students in the class, and one of them told him about a make up session for the test in question, taking place after hours.

He showed up and the professor was pissed, said it was "invitation only" - of course every single person who'd gotten an invite was a black student. She would let him take the test but only if he kept quiet about it. The test handed out was multiple choice instead of essay as it had been in the proper class itself. The professor also left the room and sure enough, all of the students worked together on the answers while she was gone (which was clearly her intent that they do while she was out of the room based on something she said before leaving, if I'm remembering the details correctly.)

Sorry for the tangent/rant and I know it's just an anecdote, and I personally have never seen anything quite so blatant... but I have seen some things at university and back in high school which are cut from the same cloth as that story.

I've also seen lots of stories in the news about things akin to this. You may have seen the recent story about white parents upset with a school for sending out letters about tutoring sessions which were only for non-white kids.

If you want to get really depressed and have 30 minutes, here's a video called The Affirmative Action Hoax where an author details his extensive research into the practices surrounding this sort of thing even at very prestigious schools like Yale and Harvard, and even in certification boards, etc. For doctors, police, firefighters, you name it.

The video may be a bit alarmist, but if he's even 10% right about what he says it's scary as hell to me. His research seems well documented.

Fact is, political correctness has run amok and it's compromising our society's standards for competence - which can have disastrous effects if it goes on long enough. I think the fruit of this tree is already evident but will only get moreso.

Again, I want to emphasize, there are absolutely people from every ethnic group, sexual orientation, national origin... race... religion... whatever, you name it, who can perform at the highest tiers of every sort of endeavor whether it be science, law, politics, medicine, tech fields... whatever.

To those people, I have nothing but the most positive feelings possible and I would hate for us to go back to being a society where they can't get their foot in the door. Qualified is qualified, more power to them.

The problem is when diversity becomes it's own end, and competence is put on the back burner so that end can be achieved at all costs.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
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I laugh at over 4.0 gpa shit they do these days.

i think its kind of valid.

at my school we had a girl who took like 0 honors and AP classes and had a 4.0 and she was valedictorian while a bunch of people who took all those hard classes that would be say 4.4 to 4.6 or whatever on that adjusted scale were not valedictorian.

it does kind of seperate those type of people from college admissions.

as for the article in the end, being white and what sounds like upper middle class does give her a lot of advantages as a child and schools would just be full of people like that and college would be a pretty boring place if all you let in were those people. you don't get to be a senate page generally at that age unless your parents know people who know people so i'm just assuming she was well semi privileged.

as an asian guy i have no sympathy given its even harder being well an asian guy. i came from an immigrant family and we were middle class, non senate page connected, normal job holding parents, and academically i did better than her. i got rejected from a bunch of schools and whatever you deal with it. that is life, she's learning about it.

hell i have a friend. grew up in orange county. 5'10 guy, benchpressed 430 pounds in high school, scored like 1500 on his SATs back when they were out of 1600, 4.8 GPA, valedictorian in high school. played in the texas shrine game for high school football and was an all state running back. rushed something like 2000 yards his senior season and was recruited to nebraska , florida etc. AND HE WAS A BLACK GUY. got rejected from stanford. he was sad about it but he did not write an article about being screwed over.
 
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The_Dude8

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2000
5,167
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What's wrong with Penn State, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Indiana?

Are ivy league colleges worth it for undergrad? Tuition is very expensive for undergrad at an ivy league school. She can do porn and pay for those college tuition. lol
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
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being white and what sounds like upper middle class does give her a lot of advantages as a child and schools would just be full of people like that and college would be a pretty boring place if all you let in were those people.

Are schools in Asia boring because they're just full of a bunch of Asians?

Were schools in the US boring in the 1950's and prior?

Is racial diversity the only type of diversity that matters or does diversity of opinion matter too? Or must everyone just fall in line with current PC libthink?

I don't think it's the right attitude to even be thinking about whether it's "diverse enough" at a school. Admit people (or don't) based on their academics. If it ends up being white as snow, or nothing but Asians... so be it.
 

madoka

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2004
4,344
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As a Weiss, she should have claimed that she was a Jew. Because:

"Ivy League admissions officers are obviously still dipping rather deep into the lower reaches of the Jewish ability-pool, instead of easily drawing from some 15,000 other publicly identified candidates of far greater ability but different ethnicity."

It's not the Asians that she should worry about, it's the Jews according to this Jew who points out the huge rise in the Jewish population in the Ivy League coincides with an increase in Jews in college administrative positions:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

Consider the ratio of the recent 2007–2011 enrollment of Asian students at Harvard relative to their estimated share of America’s recent NMS semifinalists, a reasonable proxy for the high-ability college-age population, and compare this result to the corresponding figure for whites. The Asian ratio is 63 percent, slightly above the white ratio of 61 percent, with both these figures being considerably below parity due to the substantial presence of under-represented racial minorities such as blacks and Hispanics, foreign students, and students of unreported race. Thus, there appears to be no evidence for racial bias against Asians, even excluding the race-neutral impact of athletic recruitment, legacy admissions, and geographical diversity.

However, if we separate out the Jewish students, their ratio turns out to be 435 percent, while the residual ratio for non-Jewish whites drops to just 28 percent, less than half of even the Asian figure. As a consequence, Asians appear under-represented relative to Jews by a factor of seven, while non-Jewish whites are by far the most under-represented group of all, despite any benefits they might receive from athletic, legacy, or geographical distribution factors. The rest of the Ivy League tends to follow a similar pattern, with the overall Jewish ratio being 381 percent, the Asian figure at 62 percent, and the ratio for non-Jewish whites a low 35 percent, all relative to their number of high-ability college-age students.
. . .
One datapoint strengthening this suspicion of admissions bias has been the plunge in the number of Harvard’s entering National Merit Scholars, a particularly select ability group, which dropped by almost 40 percent between 2002 and 2011, falling from 396 to 248. This exact period saw a collapse in Jewish academic achievement combined with a sharp rise in Jewish Harvard admissions, which together might easily help to explain Harvard’s strange decline in this important measure of highest student quality.
. . .
An admissions framework in which academic merit is not the prime consideration may be directly related to the mystery of why Harvard’s ethnic skew differs in such extreme fashion from that of America’s brightest graduating seniors. In fact, Harvard’s apparent preference for academically weak Jewish applicants seems to be reflected in their performance once they arrive on campus.
 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
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So this girl finally experienced a taste of life (being told no, fuck off), rants about it (cries and pouts) and this is news?

Good times. Can't wait until she gets turned down for a job.

Someone should tell her she isn't special. None of what she does matters really.
 

Staples

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2001
4,953
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Kids make way too big a deal about their college.

Lighten up, you probably are not getting a job anyway.

If your first choice doesn't accept you with those kinds of grades, it is not like you will have to settle for community college.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
18
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Are schools in Asia boring because they're just full of a bunch of Asians?

Were schools in the US boring in the 1950's and prior?

Is racial diversity the only type of diversity that matters or does diversity of opinion matter too? Or must everyone just fall in line with current PC libthink?

I don't think it's the right attitude to even be thinking about whether it's "diverse enough" at a school. Admit people (or don't) based on their academics. If it ends up being white as snow, or nothing but Asians... so be it.


i think most people figure that if everyone was an upper class asian or white person that they'd grow up with less diversity of opinion. i'd have to say that is probably true in my experience given i know a lot of white and asian upper class type people.

yes its probably not perfect but come up with a better system.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
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come up with a better system.

Drop the assumption that everyone is a perfect, equal blank slate and can rise to any height if you just give them a chance... and go to a strict merit-based admissions policy. Have a computer decide who gets in, based on available slots and academics. Don't even have information on a student's gender, sexuality, race, socio-economics... in the system at all.

That's a better system.

People get treated unfairly in both systems, but society only collapses under one.
 

Anonemous

Diamond Member
May 19, 2003
7,361
1
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LOL, was wondering how her rant got published in the WSJ...

Weiss said she called her sister, a former assistant editor at the WSJ, who told her to write down what she was feeling.

I guess she can use this set back as a motivational speech when she runs for Senate/Congress at this rate.

She may not be going to Harvard, but, according to ‘Today,' Weiss is still "ecstatic" about her acceptances to Penn State, Indiana, Michigan and Wisconsin.

So did she just diss those other schools that accepted her?

Wow those admissions people better not be reading the WSJ...
 
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Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
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i think its kind of valid.

at my school we had a girl who took like 0 honors and AP classes and had a 4.0 and she was valedictorian while a bunch of people who took all those hard classes that would be say 4.4 to 4.6 or whatever on that adjusted scale were not valedictorian.

it does kind of seperate those type of people from college admissions.

Thus why you usually listed those types of classes for the admissions.

The problem is some schools do this and others don't and many of those that do it don't regulate it and in some cases they do it for easy classes to make it look like their school has smarter students thus get more funding.

If there was some kind of actual enforceable rule on how it works and all schools do it the same way then that is fine but too many abuse it to make it worthwhile for high schools right now where it's gotten better to list the classes with the gpa as alone like some do no longer works.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
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2120 is hardly exceptional tbh.

EDIT: Ok, it's probably more at the borderline of exceptional, but still.
 
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Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
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Whether her particular situation or her particular "whining" has merit, all I know is that anything which gets people discussing the problem of affirmative action, is a positive thing.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
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Drop the assumption that everyone is a perfect, equal blank slate and can rise to any height if you just give them a chance... and go to a strict merit-based admissions policy. Have a computer decide who gets in, based on available slots and academics. Don't even have information on a student's gender, sexuality, race, socio-economics... in the system at all.

That's a better system.

People get treated unfairly in both systems, but society only collapses under one.

i do agree with you actually on a lot of that. sexuality, race, gender probably should have nothing to do with it. but socioeconomics is a huge factor because it determines what school districts you are in, what honors / ap classes and resources those schools have, how many tutors and test prep classes you can take. race is correlated with socioeconomics. right now black people on average make less than white people. asians make more than white people in america in general.

hell lets put it this way. i'm a programmer so i program that computer that choose applicants.

logically colleges know that the image and prestige of any college is based on what becomes of the people who go there. so the goal is to pick the people who will best represent the college someday so you'd probably want the most capable person.

probably you write some heuristics to break ties, and assign weights to things give each candidate some sort of score based on your super perfect algorithms projections of that persons capabilities.

things like if gpa / scores are equal and one white kid is rich and from beverly hills and another white kid is from the poorest neighborhood in detroit, poor kid scores higher would make sense. given more information you generate better predictions. omitting, things like socioeconomics and hardships makes worse predictions

lets put it this way. if we had a million pairs of kids. each pair has the same SAT scores, but one kid in each pair is from a rich background had tutors etc, the other did not. if i said you could pick one kid from each pair and i gave you money based on how much the kids you pick scored on an IQ test, i'm guessing you want to know which kid grew up rich ? if your goal can be quantified like that, you will want every piece of information you can legally obtain. its not perfect, hell maybe some of those rich kids score higher, but over a million times i think you do better knowing who was rich.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,508
10,682
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Drop the assumption that everyone is a perfect, equal blank slate and can rise to any height if you just give them a chance... and go to a strict merit-based admissions policy. Have a computer decide who gets in, based on available slots and academics. Don't even have information on a student's gender, sexuality, race, socio-economics... in the system at all.

That's a better system.

People get treated unfairly in both systems, but society only collapses under one.

You'll get a bunch of pissed off upper middle class families that are alumni or donors that assume that their kids are going to their old university regardless of qualifications.

In short. Not going to happen.