Ted Nugent all talk no action

[monovillage]

Lying about history. Republicans were more pro-war than Democrats - who were pro-war as well, *earlier but Democrats were the ones to admit they were wrong*.

Not like Nixon who was a traitor, undermining the LBJ peace talks secretly to get elected as President.

And what a sickening, hypocritical apologist for Neugent - what if Obama did that?

In case anyone is laughing as hard as I am at this joke of a post, read a real history book about who started the Vietnam War. Pathetic.

 

[PokerGuy]

Yeah, damn those celebs for the dumb opinions, what kind of idiot listens to what celebs have to say? Especially all those in hollywood

 

[cybrsage]

The album Cat Scratch Fever hit number 17 on the billboard chart in the US (and 14 in Sweden). Those who say he could never sing are obviously liars.

 

[hal2kilo]

Lying about history. Republicans were more pro-war than Democrats - who were pro-war as well, *earlier but Democrats were the ones to admit they were wrong*.

Not like Nixon who was a traitor, undermining the LBJ peace talks secretly to get elected as President.

And what a sickening, hypocritical apologist for Neugent - what if Obama did that?

I think I see a pattern here. Didn't Saint Ronney do the same thing to Jimmy Carter with the Iranians?

 

[Oyeve]

We all know of draft dodging cowards.

Why is it cowardly to dodge a draft for a war that was stupid to begin with? Hey, im all for fighting for my country IF it was invaded but i'll be damned if some politician makes me go to war.

 

[Craig234]

I think I see a pattern here. Didn't Saint Ronney do the same thing to Jimmy Carter with the Iranians?

It's not entirely clear what happened with the October Surprise, but it appears George Bush, Sr. and the 'security state' people later behing Iran Contra were likely more involved.

Thing is, a traitorous Iran act didn't lead to several more years of war.

On the other hand, it gave us Reagan, who turned the country in a very bad direction.

Our nation hasn't only not recovered from the right-wing turn under Reagan toward militarism and massive debt and rolling back New Deal regulation, we're not close to that.

 

[monovillage]

I think I see a pattern here. Didn't Saint Ronney do the same thing to Jimmy Carter with the Iranians?

You're old enough to know from your own life experience. Which President/Presidents started the Vietnam War?

 

[Craig234]

Why is it cowardly to dodge a draft for a war that was stupid to begin with? Hey, im all for fighting for my country IF it was invaded but i'll be damned if some politician makes me go to war.

He's not being criticized for 'dodging a bad war's draft', he's being criticized for doing so while being pro-war for OTHERS - hence the 'hawk' in 'chickenhawk'.

And in addition to the chickenhawk issue, he's being mocked for the extreme he said he went to (he may or may not be lying).

Also, you can't defend 'your team' dodging the draft while attacking others for it.

Bush, Cheney, many others all big pro-war war avoiders.

 

[Craig234]

lol ... Thanks, I needed that.

I let most of your BS pass. After all it is BS. But this has me falling out of my chair. You have made my day kid.

You are very ignorant, and willfuly determined to remain ignorant, kid.

 

[hal2kilo]

You're old enough to know from your own life experience. Which President/Presidents started the Vietnam War?

One could argue Eisenhower, or JKF, or LBJ. Your point?

 

[Craig234]

Why would I waste time discrediting Romney when he was never a threat? You got me confused with some other geezer. I despise the political games played by all parties and all candidates.

The point was, it's only when Neugent becomes an embarrassment he 'doesn't matter' and that's worth posting about; when he's providing votes, no need to say he doesn't matter.

Imagine if Obama sought the endorsement of Louis Farrakhan and was getting votes by doing so, and then Farrakhan made similarly embarrassing comments 'if Romney won'.

Then what if some said 'oh, Farrakhan doesn't matter'. Well, he mattered fine before.

And if Obama refused to criticize the behavior... well, Romney chose not to criticize.

Remember when a McCain nutty audience member wrongly described Obama - I forget, an arab or something - McCain corrected her. I'm not sure Romney would.

Directly to your post, I'm saying that claiming 'Neugent doesn't matter' is pro-Romney spin that minimizes Romney's accountability - not exactly 'despising the games'.

I'm not saying there's any issue of Romney supporting Neugent's views; I'm saying that there should be accountability for Romney pursuing his endorsement and not criticizing.

 

[soundforbjt]

The album Cat Scratch Fever hit number 17 on the billboard chart in the US (and 14 in Sweden). Those who say he could never sing are obviously liars.

He wasn't the lead singer. Derek St. Holmes was the lead singer on most of that album.

 

[soundforbjt]

One could argue Eisenhower, or JKF, or LBJ. Your point?

Ike sent the first "advisors".

 

[Craig234]

One could argue Eisenhower, or JKF, or LBJ. Your point?

Really, it goes back further - you could point out President Wilson's refusal to respond to Ho Chi Minh's appeal to the US as a beacon of freedom to support their desire to remove colonialism. In pre-JFK days, the US was pretty friendly to allies' colonization of other countries.

The US was supportive of French colonization before and after WWII, despite Ho Chi Minh again appealing to the US to not support re-colonizing them after the war.

Under Eisenhower, the main issues were support for France so strong that the US was paying 90% of the war costs for France; and that the US still had a 'we can only trust right-wing dictators' approach, so that issues like Laos were a military crisis as the US opposed any leader other than the far right.

JFK had supported the US strategy in the 1950's and wanted South Vietnam to succeed; he tried to both support them but also was very concerned about expanding the war, and went to great lengths to opposed his almost unanimous own government pushing for expanding the war. Politically, he knew that announcing a withdrawal - when the US had a mindset that we win every war and absolutely should not surrender in the war against communism by handing the communist bloc a country that would only strengthen them and threaten several more southeat Asian countries - would be a negative in his re-election campaign.

There have been many researchers and generally it's supported that he fought against the expansion pushed on him - and most agree he was planning to withdraw forces from Vietnam rather than send combat troops. His close friend Senate Majority Leader Mike Mansfield was reported to say President Kennedy had told Mansfield, who urged him to leave Vietnam, that he agree and would do so after the 1964 re-election, but it had to wait for that.

JFK did escalate the number of 'advisors' to 16,000; the month before he was assassinated, he ordered 1,000 of them back home.

It's not easy to discuss a complicated issue such as how a President battles his own military on an issue like this and all the maneuvering and appearences he creates.

An important comment he made publicly was that 'we can send material assistance, but this is a war for South Vietnam to win or lose'. That is the comment of a President laying the groundwork for politically justifying withdrawal, rather than paving the way for starting a war.

LBJ had strong reservations about expanding the war - with the trigger being the bizarre, false 'second attack' in the Gulf of Tonkin, purportedly one of two 'unprovoked attacks on US ships in international waters', but which apparently were one justified attack by North Vietnam in its own waters against a US escort for terrorists being taken to North Vietname for sabotage, assasination, terrorism that was an ongoing policy.

The best information I've seen is that LBJ 'agreed to the war in Vietnam to placate his opponents to secure his Great Society domestic agenda'. He made a comment to the military who was pressuring him to expand the conflict to let him get re-elected 'and then you can have your war'. One commentary:

Johnson told his Joint Chiefs of Staff that he would do all that was necessary to prevent the NLF winning in South Vietnam but was unwilling to take unpopular measures like sending troops to tight in a foreign war, until after the 1964 Presidential Elections. Just let me get elected," he told his military advisers, "and then you can have your war."

As the election was not due for another eleven months, the Joint Chiefs of Staff feared that this was too long to wait. They therefore suggested another strategy that would be less unpopular with the American public as it would result in fewer of the men being killed.

For sometime, military intelligence officers working in Vietnam had believed that without the support of the Hanoi government, the National Liberation Front would not survive. They therefore advocated the bombing of Hanoi in an attempt to persuade North Vietnam to cut off supplies to the NLF.

Curtis LeMay , the commander of the US air force, argued that by using the latest technology, North Vietnam could be blasted "back to the Stone Age." Others pointed out that "terror" raids on civilian populations during the Second World War had not proved successful and claimed that a better strategy would be to bomb selected targets such as military bases and fuel depots.

Johnson preferred the latter proposal but was aware he would have difficulty convincing the American public and the rest of the world that such action was justified. He therefore gave permission for a plan to be put into operation that he surmised would eventually enable him to carry out the bombing raids on North Vietnam.

Operation Plan 34A involved the sending of Asian mercenaries into North Vietnam to carry out acts of sabotage and the kidnapping or killing of communist officials. As part of this plan, it was decided to send US destroyers into North Vietnamese waters to obtain information on their naval defences. On August 2, 1964, the US destroyer, "Maddox" was fired upon by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats in the Gulf of Tonkin . In retaliation, "Maddox" fired back and hit all three, one of which sank. The "Maddox" then retreated into international waters but the next day it was ordered to return to the Gulf of Tonkin.

Soon after entering North Vietnamese waters, Captain Herrick reported that he was under attack. However, later he sent a message that raised doubts about this: "Review of action makes reported contacts and torpedoes fired appear doubtful. Freak weather reports and over-eager sonar men may have accounted for many reports. No actual sightings by "Maddox". Suggest complete evaluation before further action."

Johnson now had the excuse he had been waiting for and ignored Captain Herrick's second message. He ordered the bombing of four North Vietnamese torpedo-boat bases and an oil-storage depot that had been planned three months previously.

President Johnson then went on television and told the American people that: "Repeated acts of violence against the armed forces of the United States must be met not only with alert defence, but with a positive reply. That reply is being given as I speak tonight."

The Congress approved Johnson's decision to bomb North Vietnam and passed what has become known as the Gulf of Tonkin resolution by the Senate by 88 votes to 2 and in the House of Representatives by 416 to 0. This resolution authorised the President to take all necessary measures against Vietnam and the NLF.

Johnson eventually announced his plan to seek a negotiatied peace, after losing political support for the war and deciding the US was not going to 'win'.

Enter Richard Nixon, secretly conspiring to tell South Vietnam's leader that if he rejected any peace deal with LBJ, Nixon would give him a better deal - and that's what happened.

A public unhappy with Vietnam opposed LBJ, and Nixon won, promising peace, falsely (much as Johnson had done in the previous election, without the treason).

The most major escalation of Vietnam happened under LBJ, with Republicans as or more pushing for war than Democrats; it could have been avoided under Eisenhower it seems.

 

[umbrella39]

Awe nice to see a few nuthuggers finally peeked their heads out of Ted dirty drawers to post in this thread... pathetic.

 

[BoberFett]

So in otherwords, it was Democrats who started Vietnam. You could have just admitted that and saved yourself a lot of typing.

 

[Ausm]

So in otherwords, it was Democrats who started Vietnam. You could have just admitted that and saved yourself a lot of typing.

Did make Ted drop a load in his shorts?

 

[BoberFett]

Did make Ted drop a load in his shorts?

Does anyone have an Ausm/English translator that they can run this through?

 

[Binarycow]

Ted is like a fucking crazy old dog, the kind people would walk wide around, all barking for no apparent reason.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Directly to your post, I'm saying that claiming 'Neugent doesn't matter' is pro-Romney spin that minimizes Romney's accountability - not exactly 'despising the games'.

I'm not saying there's any issue of Romney supporting Neugent's views; I'm saying that there should be accountability for Romney pursuing his endorsement and not criticizing.

Say what? You do realize that transcendentalism is a literary ploy and not a way of life, right? Right? Sometimes (usually) ignorant foot in mouth statements by politicos are just that. No ulterior motive, no play for votes, no plan for influencing the knuckle draggers, just plain unadulterated stupidity that the candidates writers do their best to shape into something useable.

After all the time spent by the denizens of this sub forum following every spittle laced bit of florid rhetoric caught by news media in their 24/7 pursuit of ratings, do you really think the majority of politicians or their staff have the intelligence to plan these gaffs directly?

They're ALL playing catch up as fast as they can. It's gotten so bad, I appreciate Obama for a modicum of intelligence even though I disagree with many policies.

 

[fred123]

Ted Nugent is a brand and a good business man. He identified lonely psycho conservatives and gave them a sense of belonging because no popular talent would go there. If you think he is what he presents you're an idiot.

You are absolutely right. He's much worse. I would also like to add that missing from the info in that link is the fact Cortney Love admitted to giving him a bj when she was......12! Not a typo.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-stat...to-meet-the-real-ted-nugent/question-2596765/

http://www.examiner.com/article/rom...nt-pedophile-he-says-so-video?cid=db_articles

 

[fred123]

Why is it cowardly to dodge a draft for a war that was stupid to begin with? Hey, im all for fighting for my country IF it was invaded but i'll be damned if some politician makes me go to war.

By crapping your pants for days before? Then talk bravely talk how you would go there and kill all your own countrymen in their fox holes? You're cool with that?

 

[Ausm]

Does anyone have an Ausm/English translator that they can run this through?

Sorry grammer Nazi, I posted my reply from my phone...now do us a favor and get a fucking Job.

 

[senseamp]

With the kind of talk he's spewing, no action is a good thing.

 

[JulesMaximus]

As much as I love talking shit about that ridiculous ass clown this article is 6 years old and the article cited in this article is from comments he made 22 years ago.