Technology in school

[nweaver]

I'll start by stating my position....

Technology (such as computers/internet) should have a much LESS significant place in our public schools then we have. A laptop for every child is a less then worthless proposition.

Reason:
1. Money: Laptops cost a lot, and the up front original purchase is not the biggest cost. What about software? What about administration/management? Networking costs? Not to mention that a computer ages MUCH quicker then traditional teaching tools. How usefull is a 5 year old computer? How about a 5 year old math textbook? I realize that Pythagoreans Theorem has changed several times, and you have to look up the latest info every day....

2. Time: I'm in IT, I can tell you what a hassle and time sink computers can be. The REALLY bad thing is the time lost. At work, someone's computer has issues, they sit around and may not get much done while I work on their computer....they lose a couple hours maybe. In the classroom, where you have mostly amateur "admin" teachers, with a limited time schedule (45-120 minutes) it's much more significant, because of the % of time lost in that class, and that time is multiplied by 20-35 kids, so now instead of 1 hour lost, you have 20-35 learning hours lost, all because 1 of the 30 computers puked a lung. Not to even touch the time waster that is the internet (hello, how many are here wasting time neffing on ATOT).

3. Advantages are not there: Every "new" thing was going to "revolutionize" teaching. The radio, the TV, and now, the computer. Except....has the radio really "educated" folks? how about the TV? No...neither was nearly the impact they thought the were, and both caused SIGNIFICANT increases in budget/manpower, with little to no gains. The computer is the same way.

4. "But the need to learn computers for life": BS...computers are changing so quickly that they cannot train a JR, or even most HS students anything other then fundamentals, such as how to really type (two hands, home keys, 50WPM, etc). Is it REALLY that hard to learn to open word, change the font, and type? With as quickly as software changes, you can't have full time training for it. Companies don't. Do you get an hour a day, for 4-6 months to learn the new version of office at work? Not to mention, most "computer" training for work is going to be more specialized applications, such as insurance claims reporting s/w that only a few use, or something like that.

5. Better access to information...not. When a laptop's battery dies, how useful is it? How about that Math textbook, or that history textbook? Oh, that's right, they don't use batteries. Computers for researching thing is OK, but then you really need Internet access, which you won't have except at home/school. Not to mention, how many times is info on the web questionable about sources? Wikipedia can't be wrong!!1!


Does that mean we should ban computers/lights/phones/TV's from school?

No, it has it's place, and the ability to take a few classes is great. Learning a few fundamentals of networking, or basic programming language is great. Requiring seniors to take a single "intro to computers" class their senior year would even be fine...just don't throw the damn things in their History, Science, Math, and English classes. They just waste time, money, and accomplish nothing to compensate for those things. I think it's time for schools to cut the technology budget and put that toward better facilities, more teachers, textbooks, and things that will really help the kids.


/flamesuit on

 

[j00fek]

thnx

 

[Goosemaster]

Their POP server is down.....no one read what you jsut wrote....

try resending it....

 

[yinan]

This makes no sense. Computer knowledge is required for basically any good position. Students need to know how to use them well to perform well in college and the job market.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: yinan
This makes no sense. Computer knowledge is required for basically any good position. Students need to know how to use them well to perform well in college and the job market.

My wife had no experience in her school with computers. She got a job doing insurance, and required using computers, she adapted just fine. Basic computer operation doesn't take 90 hours of training.

More then computer knowledge, kids need a fundamental grasp of HOW TO LEARN. Much more important then knowing Windows 3.1 or 95, which is what I would have learned in high school Maybe teaching ETHICS or hard work. It aggravates me when a kid can't pick up simple concepts, or how to logically troubleshoot.

edit: Lets even use me for an example. I'm in IT, I do networks, servers, clients, Linux, Windows, Mail servers, FTP, a bit of everything. Guess what, I didn't take a SINGLE COMPUTER CLASS IN HIGH SCHOOL. Not to mention it was ALL Mac in my school. I've been out of high school for almost ten years, and have spent the last 6 in a computer related field...but too bad I didn't learn computers in school, or I could have gotten a job in the computer industry....

 

[zerocool1]

4. "But the need to learn computers for life": BS...computers are changing so quickly that they cannot train a JR, or even most HS students anything other then fundamentals, such as how to really type (two hands, home keys, 50WPM, etc). Is it REALLY that hard to learn to open word, change the font, and type? With as quickly as software changes, you can't have full time training for it. Companies don't. Do you get an hour a day, for 4-6 months to learn the new version of office at work? Not to mention, most "computer" training for work is going to be more specialized applications, such as insurance claims reporting s/w that only a few use, or something like that.

what about computer programming classes in school. I learned c++ and VB6 in high school. some people though are completely clueless when it comes to computers that they don't know how to do some of those things. because they don't understand computers they are afraid that they may screw up the computer.

5. Better access to information...not. When a laptop's battery dies, how useful is it? How about that Math textbook, or that history textbook? Oh, that's right, they don't use batteries. Computers for researching thing is OK, but then you really need Internet access, which you won't have except at home/school. Not to mention, how many times is info on the web questionable about sources? Wikipedia can't be wrong!!1!

part of teaching involves making sure students can tell the difference from a credible source from a non-credible source. this prepares them for college when they have to write research papers. but what about doing presentations? this is a real world skill that i

 

[randomlinh]

The goal is to use technology to enhance teaching... not use it as a replacement. Unfortunately, just about in every arena, people seem to throw the term "technology" around and assume if you have it, it will magically make things better on it's own.

 

[illusion88]

Information on this "laptop for every child" program? I have never heard of this.

 

[markgm]

I actually never knew why schools felt the need to continuously buy new editions of text books. Save that money and buy computers!

 

[ghostman]

I think giving a child a computer is useless until they reach a certain age. Children need to learn the foundations of English, Math, Science, History, etc. and all that can be taught using books. Only when the child needs to do "research" (say, for a science project) should they start being introduced to computers. From that point on, I think they SHOULD be actively familiarized with computers (computer usage, not computer programming). It doesn't matter how fast technology changes - you can learn the basics (typing, deleting, saving, using a mouse, etc.) of using modern day computer while practicing on an old Mac or Windows 3.x.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: randomlinh
The goal is to use technology to enhance teaching... not use it as a replacement. Unfortunately, just about in every arena, people seem to throw the term "technology" around and assume if you have it, it will magically make things better on it's own.

That's just it...a great teacher is a great teacher, a mediocre teacher is mediocre. Give a great teacher a computer, and guess what, they are still great. Give a mediocre teacher a computer, and they are still mediocre.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: ghostman
I think giving a child a computer is useless until they reach a certain age. Children need to learn the foundations of English, Math, Science, History, etc. and all that can be taught using books. Only when the child needs to do "research" (say, for a science project) should they start being introduced to computers. From that point on, I think they SHOULD be actively familiarized with computers (computer usage, not computer programming). It doesn't matter how fast technology changes - you can learn the basics (typing, deleting, saving, using a mouse, etc.) of using modern day computer while practicing on an old Mac or Windows 3.x.

That's fine, a single lab of computers (maybe 30-40) for research is fine, but there are many schools that are putting laptops in English and math classes, and when one goes done, and the teacher fiddles with it, because their lesson is focused on it, then 30 kids loose out. And for what, is it really going to make the students learn better? no....

 

[rchiu]

I definitely see a place for computer in HS, but not to the extend of giving every kid a laptop. If kids bring a laptop to class, they would surf and chat and hop on social networking site all day long anyway. I know I would. No every class needs a computer, in fact, most don't. But there should be a class every year on computer, maybe programming language for those going to science, engineering school later, or typing, general word/excel, powerpoint, even quicken and stuff for others, kids these days needs to learn money management anyway. It doesn't have to be a computer centerer class, it can be a class with computer lab that makes student to use computer for the course work.

It will benefit kids to be familiar with computer and be able to use computer for whatever they will do in the future.

 

[Aikouka]

As some others have been talking about, the issue is that people think technology will magically make teaching so much better or more interactive. I'll talk to my sister and she'll tell me how the old high school installed smart boards in some classrooms and it actually makes the job harder on the teacher than it does easier. Powerpoint is heavily abused in college settings for an excuse to not really lecture but just read off of slides.

Computers everywhere will not make things better but most likely act as more of a diversion than anything. It can also be harder to take more detailed (usually when it comes to diagrams) notes with a laptop as well.

Not forcing technology does not mean excluding CS programs in schools. CS requires technology for actually applying the trade, which is fine. Learning history does not require a laptop. Learning math does not require a smartboard.

 

[Drakkon]

I would agree most of the time with things you've said but after being in this field for 5 years now (btw my field is instructional technology) I'd have to say the advantages are totally there. Giving students access to electronic books, tests, simulations, and help gives them new methods of learning that material. While a 8 yr old doesn't need a laptop, having access to it gives them the power to learn not to be afraid of technology and gives them the ability to learn outside the classroom and not the crap that most teachers teach these days. I've seen programs that teach in phonics and reading (that have been around forever) that greatly improve the child's reading level because they get to practice whenever they want, on a medium that's entertaining and not just reading flash cards. It gives them the ability to see, hear, and do - the 3 major cognitive processes that require a person to retain that knowledge. Same thing goes for math and colors and shapes, everything to improve a childs basic abilitys to recognize and put things together, and repeat that behavior, something that a teacher can only spend a couple hours a day doing before moving on to something else.

As the age increases the access to similar materials greatly improves their ability across all fields. Imagine the ability to see a graph plotted out rather than the half assed ones teachers put up on the board. Imagine being able to practice seeing multiple adverbs and pronouns and actually know what they are. But its not so much the ability of technology to show these things but the ability of technology to reproduce things on a consistent, multiple, and if need be random basis. Anybody in simulation theory will tell you time again again that repetition is key. Teachers don't have the time to constantly repeat stuff to kids. At most they spend a couple days on a subject then go on to the next never allowing the student to practice it more if needed or explore it further if they want. Computers allow them to do that and what allows a student to actually learn about a concept rather than just regurgitate it for a test.

Money and support are definitely the two biggest factors in implementing anything though. The cost to implement most systems is astronomical and the salaries that IT people get paid are comparable to 2,3 or sometimes as much as even 5 (from what i have seen) teachers - just to throw something in there from the other thread - which i dont think is right. I think its worth every penny, but i understand there are people that just still dint see it and never will. A lot of things aren't quiet there yet either but having it in their budgets now allows for the pieces to be in place for each new roll out of things that come along.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
I would agree most of the time with things you've said but after being in this field for 5 years now (btw my field is instructional technology) I'd have to say the advantages are totally there. Giving students access to electronic books, tests, simulations, and help gives them new methods of learning that material. While a 8 yr old doesn't need a laptop, having access to it gives them the power to learn not to be afraid of technology and gives them the ability to learn outside the classroom and not the crap that most teachers teach these days. I've seen programs that teach in phonics and reading (that have been around forever) that greatly improve the child's reading level because they get to practice whenever they want, on a medium that's entertaining and not just reading flash cards. It gives them the ability to see, hear, and do - the 3 major cognitive processes that require a person to retain that knowledge. Same thing goes for math and colors and shapes, everything to improve a childs basic abilitys to recognize and put things together, and repeat that behavior, something that a teacher can only spend a couple hours a day doing before moving on to something else.

As the age increases the access to similar materials greatly improves their ability across all fields. Imagine the ability to see a graph plotted out rather than the half assed ones teachers put up on the board. Imagine being able to practice seeing multiple adverbs and pronouns and actually know what they are. But its not so much the ability of technology to show these things but the ability of technology to reproduce things on a consistent, multiple, and if need be random basis. Anybody in simulation theory will tell you time again again that repetition is key. Teachers don't have the time to constantly repeat stuff to kids. At most they spend a couple days on a subject then go on to the next never allowing the student to practice it more if needed or explore it further if they want. Computers allow them to do that and what allows a student to actually learn about a concept rather than just regurgitate it for a test.

Money and support are definitely the two biggest factors in implementing anything though. The cost to implement most systems is astronomical and the salaries that IT people get paid are comparable to 2,3 or sometimes as much as even 5 (from what i have seen) teachers - just to throw something in there from the other thread - which i dont think is right. I think its worth every penny, but i understand there are people that just still dint see it and never will. A lot of things aren't quiet there yet either but having it in their budgets now allows for the pieces to be in place for each new roll out of things that come along.

that repetition, and time spent on things they struggle with...should be a parent, not a computer. If a kid doesn't understand something, there are only so many ways a computer can say "2+2=4"...a teacher has many many more ways.