Tech industry wage suppression scandal is *WAY* worse than initially thought

[emperus]

Not disputing that Democrats pander to people who believe in those things while actually enriching themselves greatly in no different of a manner than republicans while creating unintended consequences via shilling for unions at tax payer expense, over regulating to keep themselves relevant, and pushing up the cost of living by pushing up taxes and regulations.

So we agree. Democrats believe in Regulations and unions and Republicans don't.

So, for the purpose of this thread, most Democrats would probably want to propose some new Regulation(law) that prevents CEO's from doing this and most Republicans would argue that such a regulation(law) would create unintended consequences like pushing up the cost of living or would destroy jobs. That we can't hamper these job creators because they after all create jobs and no one else does. Does that sound right?

 

[shady28]

So we agree. Democrats believe in Regulations and unions and Republicans don't.

So, for the purpose of this thread, most Democrats would probably want to propose some new Regulation(law) that prevents CEO's from doing this and most Republicans would argue that such a regulation(law) would create unintended consequences like pushing up the cost of living or would destroy jobs. That we can't hamper these job creators because they after all create jobs and no one else does. Does that sound right?

If the gov't would enforce current law, none of that would matter insofar as the OP topic.

But they don't. And instead of people asking why not, we get stupid right vs left red herring threads. The 0.1%ers own all of your dumb asses, because.. you're dumb.


Here's what it's supposed to be like :

http://www.payscale.com/compensation-today/2012/02/sherman-antitrust-act
...

"“Can you make sure that I only get data from ALL OF MY COMPETITORS in this report?”

“Why can’t I see which companies pay what in this report?”

The short answer is: collusion. It’s a big no-no.

The longer answer starts with the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890. "
...
Federal Trade Commission issued some guidelines commonly referred to as the Survey Safe Harbor Guidelines
...
1. Data should be collected and provided by a neutral third party;
2. Data cannot reflect the identity or any other factor that may allow someone to identify a participating organization; and
3. Data results can only be shown in aggregate form. "


How's that figure in with this very long list of companies ?

Or this?

"
Jobs threatened Brin and Google on February 17, 2005; nine days later, Apple’s VP for Human Resources sent out an internal email to Apple recruiting,

All,

Please add Google to your “hands-off” list. We recently agreed not to recruit from one another so if you hear of any recruiting they are doing against us, please be sure to let me know.

Please also be sure to honor our side of the deal."


If companies can do this to their employees, they can pay them whatever they want to pay. Once you go to work for someone - you're done.


Frankly though, the main issue here is that of accountability. The people who ordered it and those that followed those orders (HR, recruiters, legal teams) should be jailed / disbarred / decertified. Personal accountability is what's missing all over our legal system.

Instead, of course, the stock holders will get punished.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

So we agree. Democrats believe in Regulations and unions and Republicans don't.

No. Democrats push regulations wgh sold as being the saviors of man kind

So, for the purpose of this thread, most Democrats would probably want to propose some new Regulation(law) that prevents CEO's from doing this and most Republicans would argue that such a regulation(law) would create unintended consequences like pushing up the cost of living or would destroy jobs. That we can't hamper these job creators because they after all create jobs and no one else does. Does that sound right?[/QUOTE]

Okay I see that you are inherently partisan and dishonest. There is no point in continuing this discussion because the issue isn't that one side supports "MAOR" regulation than the other.

The issue is that you naively believe that if you elect "MAOR" Democrats (in CA and especially in a part of the state already completely dominated by Democrat politicians) that it will somehow correct all the wrongs you are railing against and pretending are the fault of a non-existent Republican party in California, and especially the Bay Area.

Worse of all you are under the naive delusion that somehow all regulation is inherently good when the reality is most regulation is proposed and created by the very same big business interests you decry and then lobbied for by their bought and paid for democrat state legislators and local politicians in California.

 

[Zaap]

Dumbest of all in the whole "MOAR regulations!!" smokescreen, is the absurd premise that these people weren't already violating existing laws and regulations to begin with.

Otherwise, if this is all perfectly legal, what's the problem?

 

[emperus]

If the gov't would enforce current law, none of that would matter insofar as the OP topic.

But they don't. And instead of people asking why not, we get stupid right vs left red herring threads. The 0.1%ers own all of your dumb asses, because.. you're dumb.


Here's what it's supposed to be like :

http://www.payscale.com/compensation-today/2012/02/sherman-antitrust-act
...

"“Can you make sure that I only get data from ALL OF MY COMPETITORS in this report?”

“Why can’t I see which companies pay what in this report?”

The short answer is: collusion. It’s a big no-no.

The longer answer starts with the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890. "
...
Federal Trade Commission issued some guidelines commonly referred to as the Survey Safe Harbor Guidelines
...
1. Data should be collected and provided by a neutral third party;
2. Data cannot reflect the identity or any other factor that may allow someone to identify a participating organization; and
3. Data results can only be shown in aggregate form. "


How's that figure in with this very long list of companies ?

Or this?

"
Jobs threatened Brin and Google on February 17, 2005; nine days later, Apple’s VP for Human Resources sent out an internal email to Apple recruiting,

All,

Please add Google to your “hands-off” list. We recently agreed not to recruit from one another so if you hear of any recruiting they are doing against us, please be sure to let me know.

Please also be sure to honor our side of the deal."


If companies can do this to their employees, they can pay them whatever they want to pay. Once you go to work for someone - you're done.


Frankly though, the main issue here is that of accountability. The people who ordered it and those that followed those orders (HR, recruiters, legal teams) should be jailed / disbarred / decertified. Personal accountability is what's missing all over our legal system.

Instead, of course, the stock holders will get punished.

The 1% own us because they own the government. They own the government, because our government is broken. Our government is broken because we have people who know the problem, but then when they realize the solution costs more government, get a brain fart. We also have a 2 party system where 1 of the parties is broken. So, nothing gets done.

But yes, we probably do have laws but who enforces them? Enforcement costs money, an enforcement structure and a will to enforce. Again. that goes back to the government we elect and the 2 parties we have. Where one side believes in less government, less regulations and less taxes. Wouldn't enforcing these mean we would need a bigger Justice department (more government)? So saying this is a stupid right wing vs. left wing herring thread is simplistic.

 

[emperus]

No. Democrats push regulations wgh sold as being the saviors of man kind

Okay I see that you are inherently partisan and dishonest. There is no point in continuing this discussion because the issue isn't that one side supports "MAOR" regulation than the other.

The issue is that you naively believe that if you elect "MAOR" Democrats (in CA and especially in a part of the state already completely dominated by Democrat politicians) that it will somehow correct all the wrongs you are railing against and pretending are the fault of a non-existent Republican party in California, and especially the Bay Area.

Worse of all you are under the naive delusion that somehow all regulation is inherently good when the reality is most regulation is proposed and created by the very same big business interests you decry and then lobbied for by their bought and paid for democrat state legislators and local politicians in California.

I am being dishonest because I am calling a spade a spade? Gotcha. Are you arguing that wouldn't be what the GOP would do? But the sad truth is one side support regulations the other... well they want to eliminate the FDA.

You know that regulating these huge corporations has little to do with California. The political will would have to come from Washington DC itself.

But, what I am saying is that if the batshit crazy Republican party were excised. The democratic party could split in two (The Clinton wing and the more liberal wing) and then we could start having debates that really matter and a real two party democracy.

 

[emperus]

Anyways, it was fun. Going to pass out.

 

[norseamd]

the fda practicly does nothing anyways

but getting rid of it and not replacing it would obviously not work certainly

 

[IOException]

I do have a genuine question for the OP: Do you really think that people in the tech industry need unions?

Unions are necessary for certain low-paying, hourly jobs in the private sector, not for higher income salaried employees in service-based industries.

 

[Matt1970]

I agree with the OP.

Well, there you have it.

 

[Zaap]

Well, there you have it.

Yeah, it's why you just have to laugh.

Libs suddenly pretend to be non-partisan (while STILL blaming everything on Republicans) only after they've owned themselves so badly even other libs have to duck out.

 

[1prophet]

My naiveté? When the GOP supports Unions or even a minimum living wage, you can come back to me and tell me how both parties are both the same. Again that is that false equivalency bullshit you choose to spew instead of seeing that there are shades of gray in everything.

But, I blame Republicans, because they are batshit crazy on this. And so, because they have become bat shit crazy, they have forced the center to the right. If they were a normal party the center could shift, where people would be ok challenging corporations or trying to keep them accountable. You have a Senator in your party saying that the FDA should be closed because of their onerous regulations and Senators in your party trying to dismantle the little "too big to Fail" regulations enacted after the downturn. Like I said batshit Crazy.

We can talk about the Democrat party and the two wings of the party. There is a pro Corporation wing (the triangulated Clinton wing) and a more Liberal wing. But, again at the end of the day there is one party that is pro worker not just in rhetoric alone. Guess which one.

But, we could have that discussion if you could challenge your "they are both the same equivalency" bullshit.

You mean the party that continually stabs unions and the middle class in the back while claiming to protect them from the evil republican and they have no other choice but to vote democrat.

Liberal Elite has Betrayed the People They Claim to Defend
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=10468

http://ilgp.org/democrats-betray-unions-pass-pension-bill/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-democrats-betrayal-of-labor-unions/25256

http://www.jillstein.org/obama_betrays_labor_again_signs_bill_that_guts_union_rights

http://www.redstate.com/2014/02/02/barack-obama-obamacare-labor-unions/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...ts-Betray-30-Million-Workers-on-Minimum-Wage#

but keep drinking that feel good Democrat Koolaid while being a patsy for the bought and paid for corporate democrat party.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

You mean the party that continually stabs unions and the middle class in the back while claiming to protect them from the evil republican and they have no other choice but to vote democrat.

Liberal Elite has Betrayed the People They Claim to Defend
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=10468

http://ilgp.org/democrats-betray-unions-pass-pension-bill/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-democrats-betrayal-of-labor-unions/25256

http://www.jillstein.org/obama_betrays_labor_again_signs_bill_that_guts_union_rights

http://www.redstate.com/2014/02/02/barack-obama-obamacare-labor-unions/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...ts-Betray-30-Million-Workers-on-Minimum-Wage#

but keep drinking that feel good Democrat Koolaid while being a patsy for the bought and paid for corporate democrat party.

Wow bro, hyperbole much?

I read the dailykos one and it appears 6 dems out of 200 voted against a minimum wage increase versus 227 Republicans.

That's a liberal betrayal?

Giggles.

EDIT: Oh and this!

"Devon DB is 19 years old and studies political science at Fairleigh Dickinson University."

 

[IndyColtsFan]

My naiveté? When the GOP supports Unions or even a minimum living wage, you can come back to me and tell me how both parties are both the same. Again that is that false equivalency bullshit you choose to spew instead of seeing that there are shades of gray in everything.

But, I blame Republicans, because they are batshit crazy on this. And so, because they have become bat shit crazy, they have forced the center to the right. If they were a normal party the center could shift, where people would be ok challenging corporations or trying to keep them accountable. You have a Senator in your party saying that the FDA should be closed because of their onerous regulations and Senators in your party trying to dismantle the little "too big to Fail" regulations enacted after the downturn. Like I said batshit Crazy.

We can talk about the Democrat party and the two wings of the party. There is a pro Corporation wing (the triangulated Clinton wing) and a more Liberal wing. But, again at the end of the day there is one party that is pro worker not just in rhetoric alone. Guess which one.

But, we could have that discussion if you could challenge your "they are both the same equivalency" bullshit.

The Republicans are greedy assholes and don't bother hiding it; the Democrats are greedy assholes who try to hide it. That's the difference.

Please don't insult me by claiming the Republicans are my party. They are not. I'm embarrassed by both parties and would never claim membership in either without serious reforms. The problem we have here is that people buy into the "support the lesser of two evils" philosophy. I won't do that.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Oh the hypocrisy is running rampant in here.

Must be Obamacare's fault.

 

[dank69]

Oh bullshit. The fact that you decided to go after me for countering what was an outrageously inaccurate statement by the OP shows you have a guy. I proved my point with facts. I actually used facts to dispute the claims of the OP rather than just claim republicans are sucking the cocks of these CEO's. You are more than welcome to posts some stats top refute who is in bed with who.

You didn't counter shit, retard. You'd understand that if you weren't retarded.

 

[emperus]

I do have a genuine question for the OP: Do you really think that people in the tech industry need unions?

Unions are necessary for certain low-paying, hourly jobs in the private sector, not for higher income salaried employees in service-based industries.

I think everyone should have a union of some form. Maybe not to directly set wages, but to offer a bigger negotiating incentive. NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA players make a ton and have a union. The more negotiating power the better. Look at the NFL players. They play the most dangerous sport and their contracts are not guaranteed. Could you imagine where the NFL players would be without a union?

 

[emperus]

Well, there you have it.

I think ur disagreement is purely reflexive. What is it in what the OP posted that you don't agree with?

If I work in an industry and the industry decides to secretly ban together to screw me. What are my options. Outside of me finding some evidence to take to the DOJ, I'm just basically going to get screwed.

People form countries, armies etc, because they understand that they have greater power in greater numbers.

The other alternative is trusting your employer (who's goal is it to make the most money possible) to do the right thing.

 

[Hugo Drax]

What the average American does not realize is that democrats and republicans are two faces on the same coin.

They provide false choice to make people think they have a voice in our government, but the two faces on the same coin really only represent the same group of people.

 

[dank69]

What the average American does not realize is that democrats and republicans are two faces on the same coin.

They provide false choice to make people think they have a voice in our government, but the two faces on the same coin really only represent the same group of people.

It routinely appears that way to people who don't bother to check actual voting records.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

If I'm not mistaken employees who are designated as exempt can't join a union. I do believe several states have pass laws allowing exempt administrative assistants to join a union.

Professional sports are governed by different laws than companies.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It routinely appears that way to people who don't bother to check actual voting records.

I was going to say the same thing. Take more interest than debates and columns written in the paper, look for commitment and hold them to it, look at previous voting record and decide is that what you expect/want most of all vote with some kind of passion you shouldn't be a spectator.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

If I'm not mistaken employees who are designated as exempt can't join a union. I do believe several states have pass laws allowing exempt administrative assistants to join a union.

Professional sports are governed by different laws than companies.

There are professional unions, they are rare because traditionally there haven't been enough exempt people to be able to form an effective bargaining group.

 

[BoberFett]

Strange how a thread on "FREE" market hiring practice turning into a "FIXED" market solely for the CEO's benefit went F-U so quickly.

It's because a thread by the useless idiot Phokus. He immediately went into his typical 'roid rage about LIBERTARIANS!!!! RAAARRRRRAAAAARRRRRR!!!! SUCK COCK ASSHOLES!!!

Phokus is just another unhinged left wing loon.

 

[zinfamous]

and shit like this is what kills P&N fuck

Do I sense some missing punctuation?

:hmm: