Teacher Punished For Telling Students About Constitutional Rights

Apr 27, 2012
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An Illinois high school teacher was punished by his school board when he warned his students about the 5th Amendment before answering a survey mandated by the school about emotional and at-risk behavior

The controversy started when the school district directed students to complete a survey about at-risk behavior – including past drug, tobacco and alcohol usage.
Answering these questions could incriminate the students and get them into trouble.

“I advised my students that they had a Fifth Amendment right not incriminate themselves,” Dryden told a local newspaper. “It was not my intention for them not to take the survey.”
The teacher who is a 20 year veteran was issued a formal reprimand and docked a day's pay for warning his students about their Constitutional rights.


Nearly 100 students, former students and colleagues turned out at the school board meeting to show their support for the embattled teacher. A Facebook petition generated nearly 6,000 signatures for the 20-year veteran teacher.
“He is able to break through student apathy like no other teacher I know,” fellow teacher Scott Bayer told a local newspaper
This teacher did nothing wrong and should never have been punished. The Constitution must be obeyed and respected.

Do you think the school board was in the wrong for punishing the teacher? Did he do the right thing by warning the students?


http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarne...ing-students-about-constitutional-rights.html
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
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You can't go around telling people they have rights. Do you know how much damage that would cause? Voter turnout might break the 50% barrier, people might refuse to be searched at random. The country would almost start to look like Switzerland or one of those other real countries.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
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The school board needs to be fired and replaced with people who have a clue.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
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Depends was the survey anonymous?

His status as a veteran is meaningless in this discussion. As for asking the questions in the first place understanding the types of behaviors kids are engaging in and to what degree isn't some evil plot.
 
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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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Depends was the survey anonymous?

His status as a veteran is meaningless in this discussion. As for asking the questions in the first place understanding the types of behaviors kids are engaging in and to what degree isn't some evil plot.

What the questions were for, what they were attempting to do, and whether the survey was anonymous is all completely irrelevant. Informing someone of their constitutional rights should never ever be punished. Anyone who wants to punish a teacher for accurately informing the students of their constitutional rights needs to be fired immediately.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
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school board is fucking idiots. The guy should not have been fired.
 

Black Octagon

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2012
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You can't go around telling people they have rights. Do you know how much damage that would cause? Voter turnout might break the 50% barrier, people might refuse to be searched at random. The country would almost start to look like Switzerland or one of those other real countries.

Bravo.
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
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“The issue before the board was whether one employee had the right to mischaracterize the efforts of teachers, counselors, social workers and others and tell students in effect that the adults are not here to help but they are trying to get you to incriminate yourself,” he said.


But Dryden said several questions on the 34-page survey asked students to self-report what could potentially be criminal behavior.
--Batavia School Superintendent

Conscientious practice of self-criticism is still another hallmark distinguishing our Party from all other political parties. As we say, dust will accumulate if a room is not cleaned regularly, our faces will get dirty if they are not washed regularly. Our comrades' minds and our Party's work may also collect dust, and also need sweeping and washing.
--Chairman Mao

LOL

Uno
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
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“The issue before the board was whether one employee had the right to mischaracterize the efforts of teachers, counselors, social workers and others and tell students in effect that the adults are not here to help but they are trying to get you to incriminate yourself,” he said.
Sounds about right; the survey was wildly inappropriate if it has students' names attached to it in any way whatsoever.
 

gevorg

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2004
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How dare that teacher interfere with indoctrination of the young generation!
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
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If it was a true survey, everything should have been anonymous.
Were they required to put their names on anything?
 

OlafSicky

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2011
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We need our kids to be good little lemmings. I think the teacher should be fired for this. Kids don't need to know their rights or we going to have a nation of people who think for themselves and what then?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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Doesn't matter if the names were attached.

OP of course didn't bother to quote the full article and apparently not one person in the thread read the entire thing.

Barshinger told Fox News that school rules protect students from self-incrimination.
“It is not possible for a student to incriminate himself in a school setting that would make him eligible for any police action,” he said.
And while the superintendent said students “absolutely” have constitutional rights – he said there is a caveat.
“Unfortunately, it is how they are applied in a school setting,” he said. “The Fifth Amendment – you don’t typically hear about in a school setting. That’s because the law has already been set that don’t allow students to self incriminate.”
He also said parents and students were given the opportunity to opt-out of the survey.

I'm a bit confused because he first says "school rules" then says "the law." But I think it's a statute or reg he's referring to.

Nonetheless, he's saying it isn't possible for students to incriminate themselves in a survey given by their school, meaning that what they say cannot be used against them legally. That means they don't have any Fifth Amendment right because it's a privilege against self-incrimination. Admitting that you committed a crime is only incriminating if its possible to use your admission against you. A parallel example is when a prosecutor grants you immunity from any crimes you would disclose while answering questions, you're no longer free to keep your mouth shut.

I don't know about disciplining the teacher here. If the superintendent is correct about the law, then what the teacher told his students wasn't accurate. It was a pretty minor sanction anyway. Maybe they still shouldn't sanction him because he was trying to do the right thing? Either way, it appears that what he told his students was erroneous because he simply did not know the law.

Moreover, I'm a bit confused how a teacher losing a single day's pay for telling his students something which is legally inaccurate constitutes "news." Must be a slow day at Fox.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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Heh given past examples on the lack of constitutional rights afforded minors in school settings. Excuse me if I am skeptical of the inability of law enforcement to use these against any student that admits to anything on these surveys.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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Heh given past examples on the lack of constitutional rights afforded minors in school settings. Excuse me if I am skeptical of the inability of law enforcement to use these against any student that admits to anything on these surveys.

If there's a statute which says admission of a crime is per se inadmissible under these circumstances, then your skepticism is irrelevant. It would be inadmissible.

That said, I don't know that such a statute exists but I wouldn't be surprised in the least as it makes perfect sense.