Teacher pulls chair out from under student?

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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I almost fell into a trap here by not thinking about the incident enough.

Motivation is the key.

When a student sits during the Pledge because he does so for political objections, that is his right. The Pledge is in a way a red herring. It isn't the reason that the student didn't stand, but it did provide an opportunity to disobey.

The real question would be "Does the teacher have the right to compel a student to stand, and what are the limitations?"

I don't know what the limitations are, however I would tell the teacher I understood why he did what he did, would address this issue with my child and inform the teacher that if he ever did that again to my child I would kick his ass. Everyone would have fair warning.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: CheapArse
Originally posted by: illusion88
Originally posted by: CheapArse
You don't have to recite the pledge but at least stand to show respect...

You know I totally agree with you.

But shouldnt it be your right to not show respect? I mean sh!t we can burn the mother fvcking flag. Thats been to the supreme court and was shot down. The kid has a right to choose to sit or stand. If doesnt want to show respect he shouldnt have to.

I don't think it is about rights, its about respect or the lack there of in this case.

Lack of respect to WHO? (or is that whom?) Just WHO THE FVCK is the student supposed to show respect towards? The fvcking flag?

 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: RaistlinZ
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: TwiceOver
For those ATOT'ers in NJ, I feel bad. The reason is that in this day (The age of the lawsuit) I hope that kids parents sue the school. If that fvcker did that to my kid I wouldn't rest till his ass was fired. He has no right to discipline my kid... I DO!

The problem with that is that you don't discipline your kids. Maybe not you yourself but a majority of these parents nowadays have no right to be parents. They send there retarded kids off to school and don't give two sh1ts as to how they act. Personnally I feel the teacher shouldn't have pulled the chair but he could have sent the kid to the office.

^ But that's basically the same thing as pulling the chair out from under him.

You're discriminating against and disciplining the kid for exercising his rights.

What the teacher should have done was go on with the pledge and paid no attention to the kid at all. Having the majority of the class despise him for not standing is probably punishment enough. All the teacher did was make the situation worse.

Quit failing back on the "exercising his rights" bullsh1t. That is the most pansy ass cop out. The teacher told the kid to stand, he didn't. Therefore he didn't obey the teacher and should be dealt with. If the kid was standing and the teacher told him to sit, are you going to say, he was "exercising his rights" Where is the discipline/respect for authority these days.

The only reason the teacher told the student to stand was because he wanted him to show respect for the flag. It's the student's consitutional right to not be forced to respect the flag of the USofA, supported by SC cases.

The kid is an ass, but the teacher had absolutely no right to forcefully make him respect the flag.

What if the teacher had setup a Nazi flag, put on the German national anthem, and then made everyone stand up and the kid refused? Would you be disagreeing with the student then?
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Nik
Good for the teacher. The nation's youth gets more and more complacent, apathetic, chaotic, and disrespectful every day. :|

And there's an obesity epidemic, too...

Yeah, maybe if students would STAND for the pledge instead of sitting on their fat asses, we could take care of two problems at once.

That's not a realistic solution to obesity.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: daniel1113
That kid is lucky I'm not his teacher... ;)

Yes, he is lucky - narrow minded conservatives are not so great at inspiring kids to be enthusiastic about learning, and it is a good thing he doesn't have to put up with the likes of you.

I'm FAR from conservative and I can tell you that kid needs a freakin' beating!

So contrarians (who aren't breaking the law) need to be dealt with violently? Right..
 

djheater

Lifer
Mar 19, 2001
14,637
2
0
You can't legislate respect.
You can't inspire legitimate respect through punishment.

You can make a teen wary of punishment, but that's all you're doing.

The teacher needs a vacation or retirement, he's lost his ability to teach, and is just going through the motions.

The kids taped it because the teacher frequently freaks out in class, they were rattlin' his cage 'cause they knew he'd lose it, and he did. I ask you, is that what a good teacher does? What an intelligent, competent, person does when faced with adolescent pranking? They got the best of him, and it didn't sound like they had to work particularly hard at it either.

I remember teachers like that, they were tools. I also remember teachers that I had respect and admiration for. There was a better, more legitimate way of handling that situation and that meat-head decided not to take it. His fault all the way. Teens are dumb-fvcks, if you go into education you're a fool if you don't already know this....
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I almost fell into a trap here by not thinking about the incident enough.

Motivation is the key.

When a student sits during the Pledge because he does so for political objections, that is his right. The Pledge is in a way a red herring. It isn't the reason that the student didn't stand, but it did provide an opportunity to disobey.

I cannot agree with this. One thing about rights is that it shouldn't matter what your motivation is for exercising those rights. It doesn't matter if this kid was making a political stance, or behaving in this way for other perhaps childish reasons (maybe to annoy people, etc.). The teacher should be sacked, made an example of.

 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: illusion88
But shouldnt it be your right to not show respect? I mean sh!t we can burn the mother fvcking flag. Thats been to the supreme court and was shot down. The kid has a right to choose to sit or stand. If doesnt want to show respect he shouldnt have to.

I think students should also have the right not to attend class... after all, it's a free country.

When you're at school, you show respect when respect is due, or you pay the consequences. Simple.

Show respect to who? The state? The consitution? The behavior of that kid - not standing during the pledge - was perfectly acceptable. The kid was not demonstrating disrespect toward the teacher, certainly. It is the teacher behaving in aprofoundly disrespectful manner, by demanding this student stand for something he wish to stand for. You pathetic morons who lack the balls to defend the rights other people have fought for make me want to vomit.

FU! You are as worthless as that kid. Standing for the pledge shows respect for your country and to all the soldiers that died to give you what you have now. If you are not appriciative of what this country gives you and all the people that have lost their lives fought to give you, FU! You need a beating, or you need to find somewhere else to live. I'll be damned if I'm called to war and put my life on the line for people that don't even appriciate the sacrifice I make. If you don't have the balls to fight for this country, the LEAST you can do is give some respect for the people that do.

Like I said, I'm FAR from conservative. I actual support taking "under God" out of the pledge. But, when it come to allegiance to this country, or lack there of, I have a VERY little tolerance. :|
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: RaistlinZ
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: TwiceOver
For those ATOT'ers in NJ, I feel bad. The reason is that in this day (The age of the lawsuit) I hope that kids parents sue the school. If that fvcker did that to my kid I wouldn't rest till his ass was fired. He has no right to discipline my kid... I DO!

The problem with that is that you don't discipline your kids. Maybe not you yourself but a majority of these parents nowadays have no right to be parents. They send there retarded kids off to school and don't give two sh1ts as to how they act. Personnally I feel the teacher shouldn't have pulled the chair but he could have sent the kid to the office.

^ But that's basically the same thing as pulling the chair out from under him.

You're discriminating against and disciplining the kid for exercising his rights.

What the teacher should have done was go on with the pledge and paid no attention to the kid at all. Having the majority of the class despise him for not standing is probably punishment enough. All the teacher did was make the situation worse.

Quit failing back on the "exercising his rights" bullsh1t. That is the most pansy ass cop out. The teacher told the kid to stand, he didn't. Therefore he didn't obey the teacher and should be dealt with. If the kid was standing and the teacher told him to sit, are you going to say, he was "exercising his rights" Where is the discipline/respect for authority these days.

The only reason the teacher told the student to stand was because he wanted him to show respect for the flag. It's the student's consitutional right to not be forced to respect the flag of the USofA, supported by SC cases.

The kid is an ass, but the teacher had absolutely no right to forcefully make him respect the flag.

What if the teacher had setup a Nazi flag, put on the German national anthem, and then made everyone stand up and the kid refused? Would you be disagreeing with the student then?

The kid does not have to respect the flag, but the teacher told him to stand. He could stand and still not respect the flag. Respect is more than standing. The teacher should of had the administration deal with the punk.

Whatcha got to go throw in a nazi example for? But to play along, if the kid wouldn't have stood, the teacher should make the administration deal with the kid, and when the administration finds out whats going on in the classrom then action would be take against the teacher.

About the constitutional right for the kid BS again, what do you say when the kid disrespects the teacher? Are you going pull the same BS line and let it be?
 

djheater

Lifer
Mar 19, 2001
14,637
2
0
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: illusion88
But shouldnt it be your right to not show respect? I mean sh!t we can burn the mother fvcking flag. Thats been to the supreme court and was shot down. The kid has a right to choose to sit or stand. If doesnt want to show respect he shouldnt have to.

I think students should also have the right not to attend class... after all, it's a free country.

When you're at school, you show respect when respect is due, or you pay the consequences. Simple.

Show respect to who? The state? The consitution? The behavior of that kid - not standing during the pledge - was perfectly acceptable. The kid was not demonstrating disrespect toward the teacher, certainly. It is the teacher behaving in aprofoundly disrespectful manner, by demanding this student stand for something he wish to stand for. You pathetic morons who lack the balls to defend the rights other people have fought for make me want to vomit.

FU! You are as worthless as that kid. Standing for the pledge shows respect for your country and to all the soldiers that died to give you what you have now. If you are not appriciative of what this coutry gives you and all the people that have lost their lives fought to give you, FU! You need a beating, or you need to find somewhere else to live. I'll be damned if I'm called to war and put my life on the line for people that don't even appriciate the sacrifice I make. If you don't hav the balls to fight for this country, the LEAST you can do is give some respect for the people that do.

Like I said, I'm FAR from conservative. I actual support taking "under God" out of the pledge. But, when it come to allegiance to this country, or lack there of, I have a VERY little tolerance. :|

Nationalism got Germans into a lot of trouble a few times.

You're all worked up because it mentioned the pledge....

It's just a case of a teenager yankin' a teachers chain... I would put money on a bet that you did thinks to irritate your teachers... that's ALL this kid was doing... he wasn't making a statement... he hasn't even considered the pledge or patriotism... blame that on his parent.

The teacher freaked out and lost it 'cause a kid needled him. He needs to take a break from teaching, (PERIOD).

 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
1
81
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: CheapArse
Originally posted by: illusion88
Originally posted by: CheapArse
You don't have to recite the pledge but at least stand to show respect...

You know I totally agree with you.

But shouldnt it be your right to not show respect? I mean sh!t we can burn the mother fvcking flag. Thats been to the supreme court and was shot down. The kid has a right to choose to sit or stand. If doesnt want to show respect he shouldnt have to.

I don't think it is about rights, its about respect or the lack there of in this case.

Lack of respect to WHO? (or is that whom?) Just WHO THE FVCK is the student supposed to show respect towards? The fvcking flag?

It's clearly a lack of respect for the teacher. The teacher told them all to stand and they should stand.

The kid was just being an asshole and didn't stand just to piss the teacher off. I think it's funny when these kids test teachers and then when something bad happens they play the victim. The kid is just pushing buttons and should be dealt with as well as the teacher for his actions.
 

merlocka

Platinum Member
Nov 24, 1999
2,832
0
0
Am I missing something? The teacher took the kids chair away. The kid didn't fall. The teacher didn't touch him. The kid stood up once the teacher touched the back of his chair.

Yes, the teacher seems psycho. You probably have to be psycho to deal with those idiot kids every day. If I were a HS teacher, I would carry Tasers. STAND UP OR I'LL DO IT AGAIN... BZZZZZ







 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: RaistlinZ
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: TwiceOver
For those ATOT'ers in NJ, I feel bad. The reason is that in this day (The age of the lawsuit) I hope that kids parents sue the school. If that fvcker did that to my kid I wouldn't rest till his ass was fired. He has no right to discipline my kid... I DO!

The problem with that is that you don't discipline your kids. Maybe not you yourself but a majority of these parents nowadays have no right to be parents. They send there retarded kids off to school and don't give two sh1ts as to how they act. Personnally I feel the teacher shouldn't have pulled the chair but he could have sent the kid to the office.

^ But that's basically the same thing as pulling the chair out from under him.

You're discriminating against and disciplining the kid for exercising his rights.

What the teacher should have done was go on with the pledge and paid no attention to the kid at all. Having the majority of the class despise him for not standing is probably punishment enough. All the teacher did was make the situation worse.

Quit failing back on the "exercising his rights" bullsh1t. That is the most pansy ass cop out. The teacher told the kid to stand, he didn't. Therefore he didn't obey the teacher and should be dealt with. If the kid was standing and the teacher told him to sit, are you going to say, he was "exercising his rights" Where is the discipline/respect for authority these days.

The only reason the teacher told the student to stand was because he wanted him to show respect for the flag. It's the student's consitutional right to not be forced to respect the flag of the USofA, supported by SC cases.

The kid is an ass, but the teacher had absolutely no right to forcefully make him respect the flag.

What if the teacher had setup a Nazi flag, put on the German national anthem, and then made everyone stand up and the kid refused? Would you be disagreeing with the student then?

The kid does not have to respect the flag, but the teacher told him to stand. He could stand and still not respect the flag. Respect is more than standing. The teacher should of had the administration deal with the punk.

Whatcha got to go throw in a nazi example for? But to play along, if the kid wouldn't have stood, the teacher should make the administration deal with the kid, and when the administration finds out whats going on in the classrom then action would be take against the teacher.

About the constitutional right for the kid BS again, what do you say when the kid disrespects the teacher? Are you going pull the same BS line and let it be?

I threw the Nazi example in because people would be outraged to show respect towards something that they adamantly oppose and have no respect for. This is how some people feel towards the US flag, and the US in general. Do I agree with it? Not at all. But those people are allowed to feel this way because we're in this great country.

You said it yourself, the teacher should've had administration deal with the punk. But he didn't, he took it into his own hands which was the wrong thing to do.

As for the constitutional right for the kid, there's a difference between disobeying an order from a teacher because he's forcing you to do something you don't believe in or have respect for, and doing something because there's no logical reason to do otherwise except to be a nuisance.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I almost fell into a trap here by not thinking about the incident enough.

Motivation is the key.

When a student sits during the Pledge because he does so for political objections, that is his right. The Pledge is in a way a red herring. It isn't the reason that the student didn't stand, but it did provide an opportunity to disobey.

I cannot agree with this. One thing about rights is that it shouldn't matter what your motivation is for exercising those rights. It doesn't matter if this kid was making a political stance, or behaving in this way for other perhaps childish reasons (maybe to annoy people, etc.). The teacher should be sacked, made an example of.


Notice the rest of my post though. I didn't say I approved of the action of the teacher, but what are the limits? There are laws that require children to attend school. What if they claim the right not to? What if a teacher is teaching a class and a student decides it's his right to stand, or sit or stand and sit over and over and over again?

What are the boundries here?

Anyway, my point is that this really isn't about the Pledge, because it was just an opportunity to blow off the teacher. It could have been anything.

There are competing concerns here.

A teacher must have some degree of authority and be able to maintain order. Other students have a right to learn in a chaos free environment. The individual student has rights to an education, and to be free from physical harassment regardless of the source. That same student has obligations though. He has the obligation to allow students the same rights as he does. Somtimes that means curbing behavior for the good of the rest of the class.

Rights are limited by obligations. The general question is where the balance is struck, and how it is enforced. I in no way approved of the behavior of either the student or teacher, and particularly not of the teachers.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: BigJ
As for the constitutional right for the kid, there's a difference between disobeying an order from a teacher because he's forcing you to do something you don't believe in or have respect for, and doing something because there's no logical reason to do otherwise except to be a nuisance.

Not to mention the fact that no consitutional right absolves you of the responsiblity for any consequences that you may suffer in the course of exercising those rights.

However, the teacher's overly physical reaction was not called for.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: BigJ
As for the constitutional right for the kid, there's a difference between disobeying an order from a teacher because he's forcing you to do something you don't believe in or have respect for, and doing something because there's no logical reason to do otherwise except to be a nuisance.

Not to mention the fact that no consitutional right absolves you of the responsiblity for any consequences that you may suffer in the course of exercising those rights.

However, the teacher's overly physical reaction was not called for.

Yes, of any consequences that don't violate your rights. If the consequences result in another violating your rights, then there's problems. When the teacher used physical force, he crossed the line. Plain and simple. The teacher could've sent for a principal, aid, whatever. He should've never physically confronted the kid.
 

djheater

Lifer
Mar 19, 2001
14,637
2
0
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Rights are limited by obligations. The general question is where the balance is struck, and how it is enforced. I in no way approved of the behavior of either the student or teacher, and particularly not of the teachers.

I disagree with the assertion that rights are limited by obligations. Personal behavior is, perhaps dictated by obligation, but a right is a right, how can it be limited?

That's another argument though :), or should I say discussion.

Fundamentally I agree with you and I wanted to say I understood your original post. Patriotism is in truth a red herring... look at all the people incredibly worked up because it's the pledge. Fundamentally this is an issue of a teacher acting in an inappropriate way. (some) Teenagers are fvcktards, nothing's going to change that, all teachers will have to deal with it at some point or other... there are appropriate ways of dealing with it and this was not one of them...
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: jpeyton
ATOT has spoken; this teacher is officially retarded. /thread
ATOT is populated mostly by whiny bitch high school kids just like the ones in the video...

I feel sorry for that teacher. An obviously disruptive and disobedient class of oversized brats that ruin his day every day, and his only mistake is actually caring about their future.
 

djheater

Lifer
Mar 19, 2001
14,637
2
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: jpeyton
ATOT has spoken; this teacher is officially retarded. /thread
ATOT is populated mostly by whiny bitch high school kids just like the ones in the video...

I feel sorry for that teacher. An obviously disruptive and disobedient class of oversized brats that ruin his day every day, and his only mistake is actually caring about their future.

Exactly my point. That's High School... every day of it..... some people can hack it and some people can't. Lots of people burn out... this guy probably did, and needs to take a break.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I almost fell into a trap here by not thinking about the incident enough.

Motivation is the key.

When a student sits during the Pledge because he does so for political objections, that is his right. The Pledge is in a way a red herring. It isn't the reason that the student didn't stand, but it did provide an opportunity to disobey.

The real question would be "Does the teacher have the right to compel a student to stand, and what are the limitations?"

I don't know what the limitations are, however I would tell the teacher I understood why he did what he did, would address this issue with my child and inform the teacher that if he ever did that again to my child I would kick his ass. Everyone would have fair warning.
Sorry, but I have disagree with you here. I'd be much more concerned and embarassed about the obviously poor job I did raising my son.

Has the student not stood for actual political reasons, I would have respected that. In this case, however, the student didn't stand because he wanted to throw a little rebellious tantrum. Not acceptable. Nor is it behavior that can be allowed to continue.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: jpeyton
ATOT has spoken; this teacher is officially retarded. /thread
ATOT is populated mostly by whiny bitch high school kids just like the ones in the video...

I feel sorry for that teacher. An obviously disruptive and disobedient class of oversized brats that ruin his day every day, and his only mistake is actually caring about their future.

:thumbsup: Yep.