Teabaggers/Joe Wilson/Town Halls - it IS about race

[stateofbeasley]

On one side, there are people like Jimmy Carter who think the outrage sparked by the health care debate is in large part because Obama is an African American.

On the other side, there are conservative commentators like David Brooks who think that the anger is largely due to the government's expansion into more and more sectors of the economy.

background on debate

The common thread I see in the health care outrage is fear of foreigners, and particularly those who come in the form of "illegal immigrant":

Rep. Joe Wilson made his outburst after President Obama said that the proposed health care reforms would not include benefits to illegal immigrants.

Teabagger Mark Williams went on CNN and called Obama an "Indonesian Muslim".

The town halls that became rowdy had people shouting that they wanted to "take back our country".

I don't get the sense that the angry protesters are angry about a Black man in the White House, but I do get the sense that they are afraid of people from different cultures. I see "illegal immigrant" as code word for Hispanic/Latino. This anger is not about African Americans, but about the rising population of Latinos in this country, and a fear that Latinos will go about replacing English with Spanish, and Soap Operas with Telenovelas. This is of course unrealistic, as I've observed that the children of immigrants inevitably become Americanized in their language and culture.

So I think Carter is wrong, and I think the Right wing pundits are wrong. It's not about Obama being an African American. It's about a rising number of immigrants from Spanish speaking nations threatening the population dominance of conservative whites in some areas.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well that is true to some extent, but people aren't happy to have people come in illegally and use the public resources for themselves, in other words a free ride. I'm not thrilled about that myself.

 

[Patranus]

LOL - The Democrats might want to look at their own party first. After all, the Democrats have a member of the KKK in congress right now.

Ya...no joke. Guess who?


....hint, he was also the LEADER of the Democratic party at one time.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: stateofbeasley
On one side, there are people like Jimmy Carter who think the outrage sparked by the health care debate is in large part because Obama is an African American.

On the other side, there are conservative commentators like David Brooks who think that the anger is largely due to the government's expansion into more and more sectors of the economy.

background on debate

The common thread I see in the health care outrage is fear of foreigners, and particularly those who come in the form of "illegal immigrant":

Rep. Joe Wilson made his outburst after President Obama said that the proposed health care reforms would not include benefits to illegal immigrants.

Teabagger Mark Williams went on CNN and called Obama an "Indonesian Muslim".

The town halls that became rowdy had people shouting that they wanted to "take back our country".

I don't get the sense that the angry protesters are angry about a Black man in the White House, but I do get the sense that they are afraid of people from different cultures. I see "illegal immigrant" as code word for Hispanic/Latino. This anger is not about African Americans, but about the rising population of Latinos in this country, and a fear that Latinos will go about replacing English with Spanish, and Soap Operas with Telenovelas. This is of course unrealistic, as I've observed that the children of immigrants inevitably become Americanized in their language and culture.

So I think Carter is wrong, and I think the Right wing pundits are wrong. It's not about Obama being an African American. It's about a rising number of immigrants from Spanish speaking nations threatening the population dominance of conservative whites in some areas.

Do you believe in Bigfoot?

 

[stateofbeasley]

Hayabusa Rider: I agree that it is unfair if illegal immigrants use public resources that they don't pay for. I have less of a problem if these illegal immigrants are paying taxes into the systems that provide social services. If you pay in, you can take services. If you don't pay, and take services, you are a thief!

Patranus: I assume you are talking about Sen. Robert Byrd. He is irrelevant to this debate. He is also not currently a member of the kkk. Go troll elsewhere.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Patranus
LOL - The Democrats might want to look at their own party first. After all, the Democrats have a member of the KKK in congress right now.

Ya...no joke. Guess who?


....hint, he was also the LEADER of the Democratic party at one time.

Nice misleading statement there.

You can try and talk about the Democrats being racist all you want, but minorities vote with their feet, and they seem to prefer the Democrats by an overwhelming margin.

Guess that's what happens when you base your electoral strategy around race baiting like the Republicans did.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Patranus
LOL - The Democrats might want to look at their own party first. After all, the Democrats have a member of the KKK in congress right now.

Ya...no joke. Guess who?


....hint, he was also the LEADER of the Democratic party at one time.

Nice misleading statement there.

You can try and talk about the Democrats being racist all you want, but minorities vote with their feet, and they seem to prefer the Democrats by an overwhelming margin.

Guess that's what happens when you base your electoral strategy around race baiting like the Republicans did.

How is it misleading. He WAS the leader of the Democratic party AND a member of the KKK. That is FACT. 100%.

Really? The only political party bringing race into the debate are the Democrats. How many times do you hear the GOP bring race into the issue? Almost never.

 

[stateofbeasley]

Originally posted by: boomerangDo you believe in Bigfoot?

Do you have anything to contribute? ATOT is the other way.

The quality of debate has really gone down the sh1tter here. Patranus tries to hijack the thread, and boomerang Neffs to get postcount +1.

 

[stateofbeasley]

Originally posted by: Patranus
How many times do you hear the GOP bring race into the issue? Almost never.

"Illegal immigrant" = code word for Mexican, Latino, or Hispanic.

 

[bbdub333]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Patranus
LOL - The Democrats might want to look at their own party first. After all, the Democrats have a member of the KKK in congress right now.

Ya...no joke. Guess who?


....hint, he was also the LEADER of the Democratic party at one time.

Nice misleading statement there.

You can try and talk about the Democrats being racist all you want, but minorities vote with their feet, and they seem to prefer the Democrats by an overwhelming margin.

Guess that's what happens when you base your electoral strategy around race baiting like the Republicans did.

Most poor minorities will vote for whoever promises to give them something for nothing... you're right.

That's what happens when you base your electoral strategy around race baiting like the Democrats do.

 

[stateofbeasley]

Originally posted by: bbdub333
That's what happens when you base your electoral strategy around race baiting

And people like Sarah Palin shouting "were going to take back America" are race baiting as well. I hear "take back America" as "throw out the Mexicans who are diluting White Christian culture".

Ok... to be fair, I think that there are a substantial number of people who are genuinely afraid of a larger & more intrusive federal government. The "death panel" lie and controversy is a reflection of that fear. But I think that race and cultural displacement is still a large component of the health care anger.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: stateofbeasley

Originally posted by: Patranus
How many times do you hear the GOP bring race into the issue? Almost never.

"Illegal immigrant" = code word for Mexican, Latino, or Hispanic.

Incorrect. There you go, turning something is IS NOT A RACE ISSUE into a race issue.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Patranus
LOL - The Democrats might want to look at their own party first. After all, the Democrats have a member of the KKK in congress right now.

Ya...no joke. Guess who?


....hint, he was also the LEADER of the Democratic party at one time.

Nice misleading statement there.

You can try and talk about the Democrats being racist all you want, but minorities vote with their feet, and they seem to prefer the Democrats by an overwhelming margin.

Guess that's what happens when you base your electoral strategy around race baiting like the Republicans did.

Most poor minorities will vote for whoever promises to give them something for nothing... you're right.

That's what happens when you base your electoral strategy around race baiting like the Democrats do.

You have to have literally near zero knowledge of history and politics in order to believe that. The Republicans employ the southern strategy to explicitly exploit white racism to win elections, and you wonder why blacks don't like them. They base their policy planks on an explicitly nativist anti-immigration stance, while agitating to build huge border fences and you wonder why Hispanics don't like them.

Yeah, it must be those Democrats.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: stateofbeasley

Originally posted by: Patranus
How many times do you hear the GOP bring race into the issue? Almost never.

"Illegal immigrant" = code word for Mexican, Latino, or Hispanic.

Incorrect. There you go, turning something is IS NOT A RACE ISSUE into a race issue.

It's definitely a race issue. You'd have to be blind to think otherwise.

Then again, as I mentioned in that other thread... everyone acknowledges that racism exists in America. The only place it does NOT exist is in whatever issue we happen to be discussing. I for one would LOVE to know what issues ARE impacted by racism in America? Every time I think I've found one, no matter how obvious, the right comes back and tells me it's really not about racism.

Can you tell me one salient issue in America that IS impacted by racism?

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: stateofbeasley

Originally posted by: boomerangDo you believe in Bigfoot?

Do you have anything to contribute? ATOT is the other way.

The quality of debate has really gone down the sh1tter here. Patranus tries to hijack the thread, and boomerang Neffs to get postcount +1.

No, you misinterpreted my question. My question alludes that your theory is as valid as the existence of Bigfoot. Your post was not written as a question, it was written as a statement. I disagree with your statement.

I do relish the fervor put into trying to determine the "true" meaning of protests. Why people getting together to protest things they see happening in our country must have a sinister ulterior motive in the minds of the left is comical.

IMO, it's all about the money. It's always about the money. Can you buy into that? I'm thinking not.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: stateofbeasley
Hayabusa Rider: I agree that it is unfair if illegal immigrants use public resources that they don't pay for. I have less of a problem if these illegal immigrants are paying taxes into the systems that provide social services. If you pay in, you can take services. If you don't pay, and take services, you are a thief!

Patranus: I assume you are talking about Sen. Robert Byrd. He is irrelevant to this debate. He is also not currently a member of the kkk. Go troll elsewhere.

And that's where you lose your understanding of the republican argument. An illegal alien should never have the opportunity to pay for services.

 

[FoBoT]

the only "solution" i can see to illegal immigration is to change the laws to make legal immigration must easier
basically make it easy enough to enter legally so there is no reason to be illegal

as a pseudo libertarian, if we are going to have a global economy, i think we have to let workers move more freely between market

 

[stateofbeasley]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: stateofbeasley
Hayabusa Rider: I agree that it is unfair if illegal immigrants use public resources that they don't pay for. I have less of a problem if these illegal immigrants are paying taxes into the systems that provide social services. If you pay in, you can take services. If you don't pay, and take services, you are a thief!

Patranus: I assume you are talking about Sen. Robert Byrd. He is irrelevant to this debate. He is also not currently a member of the kkk. Go troll elsewhere.

And that's where you lose your understanding of the republican argument. An illegal alien should never have the opportunity to pay for services.

Yeah, it's kind of unfortunate. I had this debate with a co-worker on Friday. He didn't understand that the illegals simply go to the emergency room when they get really really f'd up, and the hospital can't turn them away. So the taxpayer ends up footing the bill. :disgust:

I say let the illegals pay into the system and participate. It's better for them if they feel they can get health care before being almost dead, and its better for taxpayers who won't be robbed by people who are getting services but not paying for them.

I like FoBoT's call for immigration reform. That's going to be a hellish fight but it needs to happen.

 

[stateofbeasley]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: stateofbeasley

Originally posted by: boomerangDo you believe in Bigfoot?

Do you have anything to contribute? ATOT is the other way.

The quality of debate has really gone down the sh1tter here. Patranus tries to hijack the thread, and boomerang Neffs to get postcount +1.

No, you misinterpreted my question. My question alludes that your theory is as valid as the existence of Bigfoot. Your post was not written as a question, it was written as a statement. I disagree with your statement.

I do relish the fervor put into trying to determine the "true" meaning of protests. Why people getting together to protest things they see happening in our country must have a sinister ulterior motive in the minds of the left is comical.

IMO, it's all about the money. It's always about the money. Can you buy into that? I'm thinking not.

My statement is based on my observation of how the Latinos are treated in my area. They are mostly manual laborers in agriculture, although many of also work in construction and automotive repair.

When you hear majority (white) people grumble about them speaking Spanish, or see the contempt that store clerks treat them with, its not hard to understand that there is resentment of the immigrants.

I've had people tell me they are afraid that traffic and road signs are going to be posted in Spanish:disgust:

Again, I think some of the protest is genuine fear of government intrusion into personal lives. But I cannot deny what I have seen -- there is genuine animosity towards Hispanics in this country.