Taxpayers stand to lose $400 billion on Fannie and Freddie but still no investigation

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
So the taxpayers are going to be left holding a bill for $400 billion for the cost of saving Fannie and Freddie from their own incompetence and yet we have yet to see a serious investigation into what lead to this mess.

Since the Democrats control congress and their fingerprints are all over Fannie and Freddie I guess we will have to wait till a change in power before anyone looks at what really happened.

Via bloomberg:
Taxpayer losses from supporting Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will top $400 billion, according to Peter Wallison, a former general counsel at the Treasury who is now a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

“The situation is they are losing gobs of money, up to $400 billion in mortgages,” Wallison said in a Bloomberg Television interview. The Treasury Department recognized last week that losses will be more than $400 billion when it raised its limit on federal support for the two government-sponsored enterprises, he said.

The U.S. seized the two mortgage financiers in 2008 as the government struggled to prevent a meltdown of the financial system. The debt of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Home Loan Banks grew an average of $184 billion annually from 1998 to 2008, helping fuel a bubble that drove home prices up by 107 percent between 2000 and mid-2006, according to the S&P/Case- Shiller home-price index.

The Treasury said on Dec. 24 it would provide an unlimited amount of assistance to the companies as needed for the next three years to alleviate market concern that the government lifeline for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the largest source of money for U.S. home loans, could lapse or be exhausted.

Lax regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac led to the mortgage companies taking on too many risky loans, Wallison said.

“It turns out it was impossible to regulate them,” he said. “They were too powerful.” He said no one knows how much will be needed to keep the companies solvent.

From 1990 to 1999, Wallison served on the board of directors of MGIC Investment Corp., the largest U.S. mortgage insurer, including a stint on the audit committee, according to Bloomberg data and company filings.

The continued government support of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac makes buying their debt a good investment, Wallison said.

“It was always safe to buy these notes,” he said. The U.S. government was always going to stand behind them. They’re as good as Treasury notes.”
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
Wasn't GWB the first person to bail them out? Where's the call to investigate him?
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
Ok, if that's how you want to play...Where's the outrage for the 1 trillion+ we'll lose in the wars your hero started?
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
5
0
Ok, if that's how you want to play...Where's the outrage for the 1 trillion+ we'll lose in the wars your hero started?
That's not what this thread is about
confused-icon.gif
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
That's not what this thread is about
confused-icon.gif

But the point is the OP wants to blame one party for one colossal screwup while ignoring another colossal screwup by another party. It's extremely easy to derail threads like these because their foundations are so weak.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Bush did not run Fannie or Freddie it was run by a bunch of Democrat appointees. But nice drive at diverting the topic.

Can someone who is smarter than me answer this:

Are Fannie & Freddie bound by leverage limits set by Congress (or at least were)?
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
But the point is the OP wants to blame one party for one colossal screwup while ignoring another colossal screwup by another party. It's extremely easy to derail threads like these because their foundations are so weak.

^^^^Someone here gets it...hypocrisy at it's finest, faux outrage for lost money (as long as it's liberals behind it).
 
Last edited:

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
I'm not happy about any money pi**ed away by our government, no matter what letter is next to their name, So let's not just blame dems here (which I believe is the OP's intent).
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Ok, if that's how you want to play...Where's the outrage for the 1 trillion+ we'll lose in the wars your hero started?


Plenty of that to go around but what can really be done to recoup any of it or even punish anyone? Politically neither party will do call for any serious investigations of other politicians as far as the wars go. Both parties fingerprints are all over it and they would have to admit their own faults, never happen.

As far as the money, who the hell do you suppose we send the bill to? Perhaps you are advocating we take some of Iraq's oil as repayment? Not sure what we can get out of Afghan, maybe some opium to help us forget about the money we borrowed and spent?

Furthermore, we have new people leading the wars so I assume you at least partially agree with our new strategy and goals?

OTOH, we are still pouring money into the bottomless pit that is Freddie and Fannie in an attempt to re-inflate the housing bubble or at least try to keep it as inflated as we can. I am not saying they are trying to get back to the levels a few years ago but they are still throwing a crapton of money at it trying to keep house prices inflated instead of allowing them to fall to sustainable levels. The only reason they are doing this is to help the banks in the short term. Eventually the market will win and housing prices will return to sustainable levels, the question is how much money are we going to give to the banksters before that happens and is it in our best interests to do so.

Personally, after the shit the banks have pulled on Americans AFTER we bailed their asses out I say fuck em with a pineapple. As far as investigations, won't happen with this either. With all the insane fraud that went on we haven't seen any yet from either Bush or Obama so I seriously doubt anything of substance is coming. Once again, both parties (and more importantly their masters) fingerprints are all over it.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Ok, if that's how you want to play...Where's the outrage for the 1 trillion+ we'll lose in the wars your hero started?
Half of that spending was approved for by the Democrats who have controlled congress since 2006.

Also the difference between spending on the war and spending on Fannie and Freddie is HUGE.

All the spending on the war was approved before hand while the spending on Fannie and Freddie is after the fact. A lot of the Freddie and Fannie spending could have been prevented if congress had done its job before hand and properly regulated the companies, and this WELL known. If you wish I can dig up all the quotes by Democrat congressmen stating that Fannie and Freddie were in fine condition and didn't need any additional regulation.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
But the point is the OP wants to blame one party for one colossal screwup while ignoring another colossal screwup by another party. It's extremely easy to derail threads like these because their foundations are so weak.

Business as usual for both parties. Exactly what the bastards want, as long as the serfs are too busy pointing fingers at each other the rulers get away with it. They win, we lose.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Half of that spending was approved for by the Democrats who have controlled congress since 2006.

Also the difference between spending on the war and spending on Fannie and Freddie is HUGE.

All the spending on the war was approved before hand while the spending on Fannie and Freddie is after the fact. A lot of the Freddie and Fannie spending could have been prevented if congress had done its job before hand and properly regulated the companies, and this WELL known. If you wish I can dig up all the quotes by Democrat congressmen stating that Fannie and Freddie were in fine condition and didn't need any additional regulation.

Can you remind me exactly who it was that lobbied, successfully, for the removal of leverage limits that would have prevented a ton of this? How about who, again successfully, prevented investigation into the CDS market before it blew up?

Who was in control of Congress when Glass Steagall was repealed? Who was the President who signed it?

Both parties did this so lets stop pretending that one side is somehow better than the other on this issue. They both took their marching orders from the same masters and are still doing so. The partisan bullshit is why they will continue to get away with it.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Darwin,
1. Fannie and Freddie were essentially run by Democrats through most of the last decade. Franklin Raines, James Johnson and Jamie Gorelick specifically.
2. Fannie and Freddie have a long history of making political donations almost exclusively to Democrats.
3. Bush actually recommended a significant overhaul of the house finance industry but many Democrats opposed his plan due to fear that tighter regulation would hurt low-income home buyers.
4. In 2006 McCain and Hagel tried to pass a regulatory reform bill that dealt with the fact that the profits stated by these corps were 'illusions' but all Democrats (in the banking committee) and some Republicans opposed the measure.

You can point to Republican finger prints on CDS and Glass Steagall all you want, but when it comes to Fannie and Freddie is nearly all Democrats.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Darwin,
1. Fannie and Freddie were essentially run by Democrats through most of the last decade. Franklin Raines, James Johnson and Jamie Gorelick specifically.
2. Fannie and Freddie have a long history of making political donations almost exclusively to Democrats.
3. Bush actually recommended a significant overhaul of the house finance industry but many Democrats opposed his plan due to fear that tighter regulation would hurt low-income home buyers.
4. In 2006 McCain and Hagel tried to pass a regulatory reform bill that dealt with the fact that the profits stated by these corps were 'illusions' but all Democrats (in the banking committee) and some Republicans opposed the measure.

You can point to Republican finger prints on CDS and Glass Steagall all you want, but when it comes to Fannie and Freddie is nearly all Democrats.

Ok, where is the investigation into CDS, GS, and the Iraq war? Or are you just looking to get in another dig at the Dems. Oh wait, it's PJ. That's what you do - not well either.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
We should have just let them default. Who did we save by backing up all their debt? Mostly foreign banks; some American but mostly foreign.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Ok, where is the investigation into CDS, GS, and the Iraq war? Or are you just looking to get in another dig at the Dems. Oh wait, it's PJ. That's what you do - not well either.
Why dont you start a thread on those topics.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Darwin,
1. Fannie and Freddie were essentially run by Democrats through most of the last decade. Franklin Raines, James Johnson and Jamie Gorelick specifically.
2. Fannie and Freddie have a long history of making political donations almost exclusively to Democrats.
3. Bush actually recommended a significant overhaul of the house finance industry but many Democrats opposed his plan due to fear that tighter regulation would hurt low-income home buyers.
4. In 2006 McCain and Hagel tried to pass a regulatory reform bill that dealt with the fact that the profits stated by these corps were 'illusions' but all Democrats (in the banking committee) and some Republicans opposed the measure.

You can point to Republican finger prints on CDS and Glass Steagall all you want, but when it comes to Fannie and Freddie is nearly all Democrats.

My point is that your attempt to place blame for Freddie and Fannie is irrelevant. If you look at the entire picture of how and why we got into this mess it is extremely clear that both parties share equally in the blame. Pointing fingers like this simply isn't productive and will result in we the people getting fucked ever more because we are occupied with blaming the other guy and not fixing the problem.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Can you remind me exactly who it was that lobbied, successfully, for the removal of leverage limits that would have prevented a ton of this? How about who, again successfully, prevented investigation into the CDS market before it blew up?

Who was in control of Congress when Glass Steagall was repealed? Who was the President who signed it?

Both parties did this so lets stop pretending that one side is somehow better than the other on this issue. They both took their marching orders from the same masters and are still doing so. The partisan bullshit is why they will continue to get away with it.

That's the tragedy of all this. People do not realize that it does not matter who is in power, the masters are always the same. But the OP wants to argue for his team...
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
My point is that your attempt to place blame for Freddie and Fannie is irrelevant. If you look at the entire picture of how and why we got into this mess it is extremely clear that both parties share equally in the blame. Pointing fingers like this simply isn't productive and will result in we the people getting fucked ever more because we are occupied with blaming the other guy and not fixing the problem.
This thread is NOT about the 'entire picture' but is about Fannie and Freddie.

We have had tons of threads about the 'entire picture' and placed lots of blame on everyone.

However the issue of Freddie and Fannie is still out standing. The US tax payers are being handed a huge bill due to the improper management of these two companies and we have yet to see an investigation into what caused the problem and how to fix it.