'Taurus' vs. 'Stairway to Heaven'

[Craig234]

There is a song, Taurus, by a forgotten group. Some think that its opening was stolen by Jimmy Page for Stairway to Heaven. You have probably heard of the controversy.

I'm not discussing the law. That was just settled, with Zeppelin winning. But rather, our opinions.

Background is that Led Zeppelin opened for the band who did Taurus when they had just formed, in 1968, three years before releasing Stairway. Zeppelin repeatedly took songs from others, typically uncredited, and greatly modified and IMO improved them into their own hits. Later legal proceedings resulted in crediting some of the original songwriters.,

My opinion: the connection is too strong for there to be none. Where else have you heard a song that evokes Stairway like this? And then the odds that Zeppelin had opened for that very band at the right time? I suspect it is very likely that Taurus is where Page got the inspiration for the opening of Stairway. But I am open to the possibility that he did not remember that, and it was subconscious.

Regardless, or course he modified even those few notes, and they made an amazing song from there. I just suspect that Taurus did play that part.

 

[soulcougher73]

I’m not hearing any similarity myself. but what do i know.

 

[Iron Woode]

that particular set of notes goes back 200 years.

Taurus had zero influence on Stairway to Heaven. After that set of notes the 2 songs differ drastically.

 

[brianmanahan]

i've never heard either of these songs, but i've played that chord progression before a bunch of times

i'm suing both of them

 

[brianmanahan]

also this reminds me of:

 

[Pacfanweb]

Zep did nick some riffs and sometimes entire songs. Lots of artists did and still do.

This isn't one of them, though. It's just a chord progression, and differs after the first few notes and the songs go in different directions. Stairway starts off similar, but that's it.

 

[Craig234]

that particular set of notes goes back 200 years.

Taurus had zero influence on Stairway to Heaven. After that set of notes the 2 songs differ drastically.

I'm not sure I'd say 'that particular set of notes', but similar, and I think it goes back 400 years.

That doesn't mean that Taurus or Stairway's writers knew that. What's more likely Page hearing it from the band he opened for, or obscure music from hundreds of years ago? As I said, no other song I can think of evokes Stairway as much.

 

[Craig234]

i've never heard either of these songs

You've never heard Stairway to Heaven, I literally started laughing.

 

[Craig234]

I sure disagree with the opinions that don't hear it. It's not "just a chord progression", there's an analogy here to "look and feel" of a UI in software. But the opinions here help explain why there are different opinions. And I'm sympathetic to how hard it is not to 'copy' something with so few notes, instruments.

To me it's remarkable that to someone much familiar with popular music, there are at least hundreds of songs I think I can play1-2 seconds of and they recognize it. This intro being one of them. Just the first four notes in one second.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

A band borrowing from another band, like that has never happened before, eh Metallica?

Talk about ungluing the horse to beat it some more ...

 

[Iron Woode]

On 9 March 2020, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in San Francisco, California, ruled in favor of Led Zeppelin, in that "Stairway to Heaven" does not infringe on the copyright of "Taurus". The full Ninth Circuit used their decision to overturn the controversial "inverse ratio rule" which it had relied over the past several decades in past copyright rulings, stating "Because the inverse ratio rule, which is not part of the copyright statute, defies logic, and creates uncertainty for the courts and the parties, we take this opportunity to abrogate the rule in the Ninth Circuit and overrule our prior cases to the contrary."[49][50] This verdict immediately applied to pending cases within the Ninth: a long battle over Katy Perry's "Dark Horse" in which a jury had found against her for US$2.8 million was overturned a week after the Ninth's verdict in "Stairway to Heaven", in part of the Ninth's new finding and that in the case of "Dark Horse", the similarity argument weighed heavily on the inverse ratio rule.[51] On 5 October, the Supreme Court of the United States denied to grant certiorari to Andes and the trust, leaving the Ninth's circuit ruling in place in favour of Led Zeppelin.[52] The court's decision precludes further appeals, thus ending the copyright dispute.[53]

 

[brianmanahan]

You've never heard Stairway to Heaven, I literally started laughing.

i just listened to it, it's pretty good

 

[Fritzo]

This has been beaten to death.

I'm a guitarist, been playing since I was 11 (I'm 50 as of yesterday). Those descending chromatic chords have been played in songs for 100's of years. I had to play Chopin exercises in 6-8th grade over and over again that used these. They sounded like every rock ballad ever made in the last 50 years.

Here's a piece called Sonata di Chittarra from the late 1600's that has the beginning of Stairway in it:

Jimmy Page was a Davey Graham fan growing up. Here's his song "Cry Me a River" from the late 50's

On that note- Page would perform a song called "White Summer"in the band's early live shows that was taken from Graham's "She Moved Through the Fair":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrWGwdsYifw

So...it's more likely Page was inspired by his guitar hero than from Taurus. ::CASE CLOSED::

 

[Craig234]

A band borrowing from another band, like that has never happened before

Yes, that's what the post said, if you are crazy and make things up.

 

[Craig234]

[court case]

So, you don't understand the statement, 'this is not about the legal issues, which have been resolved'.

 

[nakedfrog]

/waits for Craig to add more people to his ignore list

 

[brianmanahan]

/waits for Craig to add more people to his ignore list

wait ATOT has an ignore list?

 

[herm0016]

there should probably be some limit of time you can sue for copyright infringement.

lots of songs sound like lots of songs. there are only so many notes on a particular instrument. the moment you hear something, it may inspire a similar measure years down the road without you thinking about it, but randomly hitting those notes and thinking it sounds good.

 

[nakedfrog]

there should probably be some limit of time you can sue for copyright infringement.

lots of songs sound like lots of songs. there are only so many notes on a particular instrument. the moment you hear something, it may inspire a similar measure years down the road without you thinking about it, but randomly hitting those notes and thinking it sounds good.

There is, but when there was a remaster or something of that nature released of Stairway to Heaven, it met some technical definition to re-start the clock.

 

[herm0016]

There is, but when there was a remaster or something of that nature released of Stairway to Heaven, it met some technical definition to re-start the clock.

huh, interesting. ill have to look into that.

 

[Iron Woode]

So, you don't understand the statement, 'this is not about the legal issues, which have been resolved'.

You don't understand the decision of the Ninth Circuit.

You keep using the "inverse ratio rule" which is no longer used for these kinds of cases:

My opinion: the connection is too strong for there to be none. Where else have you heard a song that evokes Stairway like this? And then the odds that Zeppelin had opened for that very band at the right time? I suspect it is very likely that Taurus is where Page got the inspiration for the opening of Stairway. But I am open to the possibility that he did not remember that, and it was subconscious.

You are simply wrong in both the legal and common musical sense.

That is all there is to it.

 

[Craig234]

You don't understand the decision of the Ninth Circuit.

You keep using the "inverse ratio rule" which is no longer used for these kinds of cases:

Let me type sssslllllooowwwwllllyyyyyyyyy for you.

I am aware of the inverse ratio rule being discarded. Ttthhhiiiiiisssss ttthhhrreeaaadddd iiissss nnnnoooottttt aaabbbooouuutttt tttthhheeeee llleeeggaaalllll issssssssssssuuuuuueeeesssssss.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

So, about that legal issue ...