Taliban / Pakistan cease-fire in Swat Valley

[Kadarin]

I didn't see a story on this, so Mods, please delete this if it's a dupe.

Taliban, Pakistan make permanent truce in volatile valley

Key excerpts:

Earlier this week, Pakistani government officials announced they had agreed with the Taliban to allow strict Islamic law, or Sharia, to be implemented in the entire Malakand Division.

Fazlullah [Maulana Fazlullah, the Taliban commander in Swat] said Saturday the implementation of sharia law was very important for peace. Like Javed, he said schools for boys will be opened soon. He said he was not against education of girls, but against the syllabus of their education.

The issue of education for girls was still under discussion, Javed said.

I have to wonder at what a Taliban-approved curriculum for women would be like... Per RAWA, here is a partial list of what the Taliban imposes:

http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm

Pakistan could very well lose this war and turn into a radical Islamic nuclear power over time. If this truce holds, I would predict that it won't be that long until the Taliban feels empowered enough to expand past the Swat Valley into other parts of Pakistan.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Kadarin
I didn't see a story on this, so Mods, please delete this if it's a dupe.

Taliban, Pakistan make permanent truce in volatile valley

Key excerpts:

Earlier this week, Pakistani government officials announced they had agreed with the Taliban to allow strict Islamic law, or Sharia, to be implemented in the entire Malakand Division.

Fazlullah [Maulana Fazlullah, the Taliban commander in Swat] said Saturday the implementation of sharia law was very important for peace. Like Javed, he said schools for boys will be opened soon. He said he was not against education of girls, but against the syllabus of their education.

The issue of education for girls was still under discussion, Javed said.

I have to wonder at what a Taliban-approved curriculum for women would be like... Per RAWA, here is a partial list of what the Taliban imposes:

http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm

Pakistan could very well lose this war and turn into a radical Islamic nuclear power over time. If this truce holds, I would predict that it won't be that long until the Taliban feels empowered enough to expand past the Swat Valley into other parts of Pakistan.

It's nt that I disagree with how terrible the Talibasn education curriculum for girls would be, it's that I can't help but think of our US right-wing religious law schools, too, who fed the Bush administration with a hugely disproportionate number of people, including the woman at the heart of the illegal practices like asking career position applications for their political and religious views, e.g., did they vote for Bush.

 

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: Kadarin
I didn't see a story on this, so Mods, please delete this if it's a dupe.

Taliban, Pakistan make permanent truce in volatile valley

Key excerpts:

Earlier this week, Pakistani government officials announced they had agreed with the Taliban to allow strict Islamic law, or Sharia, to be implemented in the entire Malakand Division.

Fazlullah [Maulana Fazlullah, the Taliban commander in Swat] said Saturday the implementation of sharia law was very important for peace. Like Javed, he said schools for boys will be opened soon. He said he was not against education of girls, but against the syllabus of their education.

The issue of education for girls was still under discussion, Javed said.

I have to wonder at what a Taliban-approved curriculum for women would be like... Per RAWA, here is a partial list of what the Taliban imposes:

http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm

Pakistan could very well lose this war and turn into a radical Islamic nuclear power over time. If this truce holds, I would predict that it won't be that long until the Taliban feels empowered enough to expand past the Swat Valley into other parts of Pakistan.

This truce is basically a strategic move by the Taliban to gain legitimacy. They're going to use it to solidify their gains and then resume the conquest of the rest of Pakistan. These guys are the ideological allies of the Pakistani army, so it's futile to think that the latter will put up any kind of fight. The world better have a plan to secure Pakistani nukes before they fall into their hands.

 

[The Green Bean]

When the people are wanting their law I don't think why they shouldn't be given it. If one of your states wanted Biblical laws and protested in the streets almost rioting; would the US National Guard be ordered to fire? That's what this is. The British law system has a lot of flaws; and people were getting delayed justice. Cases pending for years. That and the people are uneducated and easily manipulable. Marvels of democracy.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
When the people are wanting their law I don't think why they shouldn't be given it. If one of your states wanted Biblical laws and protested in the streets almost rioting; would the US National Guard be ordered to fire? That's what this is. The British law system has a lot of flaws; and people were getting delayed justice. Cases pending for years. That and the people are uneducated and easily manipulable. Marvels of democracy.

Which city will be next, Quetta or Islamabad? Will they expand South, or will they go East? Hmmm... maybe both?

You had better hope that your Army and Government find their balls again, or you're fucked.

 

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
When the people are wanting their law I don't think why they shouldn't be given it. If one of your states wanted Biblical laws and protested in the streets almost rioting; would the US National Guard be ordered to fire? That's what this is. The British law system has a lot of flaws; and people were getting delayed justice. Cases pending for years. That and the people are uneducated and easily manipulable. Marvels of democracy.

If the British system is so bad, why the fvck do so many Pakistanis leave the paradise they have created in Swat and elsewhere and hide in boats, airplanes and trains and try to get in?

Frankly, I think the West should draw up a list of the kith and kin of the Pakistani army that are residing in the U.S., Britain, France et. al. and deport them back to Pakistan, starting with Musharaff's son. You can bet that they will solve the Taliban problem before one can say "Sharia".

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
When the people are wanting their law I don't think why they shouldn't be given it. If one of your states wanted Biblical laws and protested in the streets almost rioting; would the US National Guard be ordered to fire? That's what this is. The British law system has a lot of flaws; and people were getting delayed justice. Cases pending for years. That and the people are uneducated and easily manipulable. Marvels of democracy.

Are the people wanting that law or is it that the Taliban is able to force it down their throats and the Pakistani goverment to weak to stop it.

The Pakistani government is signing the truce because they do not have the capability/willpower to remove the Taliban from the area.

The Taliban took over Afgahnistan until they were kicked out.
Now they have a legit foothold in Pakistan instead.

The domino effect will start soon.


The Swat area will become a staging ground where the Taliban can operate freely.
In 1-2 years, a valley/area adjacent will be "requesting" the same Shari law that has been imposed on Swat..

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
When the people are wanting their law I don't think why they shouldn't be given it. If one of your states wanted Biblical laws and protested in the streets almost rioting; would the US National Guard be ordered to fire? That's what this is. The British law system has a lot of flaws; and people were getting delayed justice. Cases pending for years. That and the people are uneducated and easily manipulable. Marvels of democracy.

The impression I get from your post here is that you are assuming that most everyone in the Swat Valley wants the Taliban in power and welcomes Sharia. The impression I get from the general media is that the Taliban is a small minority that has enough support to forcibly intimidate the majority into submission.

 

[Pocatello]

Music and video is now banned.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
When the people are wanting their law I don't think why they shouldn't be given it. If one of your states wanted Biblical laws and protested in the streets almost rioting; would the US National Guard be ordered to fire? That's what this is. The British law system has a lot of flaws; and people were getting delayed justice. Cases pending for years. That and the people are uneducated and easily manipulable. Marvels of democracy.

The impression I get from your post here is that you are assuming that most everyone in the Swat Valley wants the Taliban in power and welcomes Sharia. The impression I get from the general media is that the Taliban is a small minority that has enough support to forcibly intimidate the majority into submission.

Our Media has been saying majority of people want the Sharia in Swat.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
When the people are wanting their law I don't think why they shouldn't be given it. If one of your states wanted Biblical laws and protested in the streets almost rioting; would the US National Guard be ordered to fire? That's what this is. The British law system has a lot of flaws; and people were getting delayed justice. Cases pending for years. That and the people are uneducated and easily manipulable. Marvels of democracy.

Are the people wanting that law or is it that the Taliban is able to force it down their throats and the Pakistani goverment to weak to stop it.

The Pakistani government is signing the truce because they do not have the capability/willpower to remove the Taliban from the area.

The Taliban took over Afgahnistan until they were kicked out.
Now they have a legit foothold in Pakistan instead.

The domino effect will start soon.


The Swat area will become a staging ground where the Taliban can operate freely.
In 1-2 years, a valley/area adjacent will be "requesting" the same Shari law that has been imposed on Swat..

AFAIK it's going to be the Pakistani army and government that will be controlling the area. It will be THEM that will be implementing Sharia.

 

[The Green Bean]

I think enough is enough: http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/co...t-official-in-swat--il
We should give one week for the civilian population to leave and start carpet bombing.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
When the people are wanting their law I don't think why they shouldn't be given it. If one of your states wanted Biblical laws and protested in the streets almost rioting; would the US National Guard be ordered to fire? That's what this is. The British law system has a lot of flaws; and people were getting delayed justice. Cases pending for years. That and the people are uneducated and easily manipulable. Marvels of democracy.

are you kidding me? Every modern country uses British Common Law as its base. The correlation between successful governments and economies and the usage of BCL is near 1. Why? Because it stresses expediency, fairness, and rights.

Just because the Islamofascists have corrupted it in Pakistan and they cannot effectively govern doesn't put the legal system at risk.

The legal system is a tool (albeit, with some flaws), how you wield the tool is up to you.

 

[yllus]

1. Taliban under attack, losing men.
2. Taliban negotiates "permanent truce" with Islamabad to end fighting and stay put in their part of the country.
3. Islamabad falls over itself to accept and declares peace in our time.
4. Taliban consolidates men, equipment, launches new attack and gains more territory.
5. GOTO 1

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
When the people are wanting their law I don't think why they shouldn't be given it. If one of your states wanted Biblical laws and protested in the streets almost rioting; would the US National Guard be ordered to fire? That's what this is. The British law system has a lot of flaws; and people were getting delayed justice. Cases pending for years. That and the people are uneducated and easily manipulable. Marvels of democracy.

are you kidding me? Every modern country uses British Common Law as its base. The correlation between successful governments and economies and the usage of BCL is near 1. Why? Because it stresses expediency, fairness, and rights.

Just because the Islamofascists have corrupted it in Pakistan and they cannot effectively govern doesn't put the legal system at risk.

The legal system is a tool (albeit, with some flaws), how you wield the tool is up to you.

The economy of the Islamic World in the middle ages to WW1 was doing perfectly fine. That's when the British came in.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: yllus
1. Taliban under attack, losing men.
2. Taliban negotiates "permanent truce" with Islamabad to end fighting and stay put in their part of the country.
3. Islamabad falls over itself to accept and declares peace in our time.
4. Taliban consolidates men, equipment, launches new attack and gains more territory.
5. GOTO 1

Time to use tactical nukes.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: yllus
1. Taliban under attack, losing men.
2. Taliban negotiates "permanent truce" with Islamabad to end fighting and stay put in their part of the country.
3. Islamabad falls over itself to accept and declares peace in our time.
4. Taliban consolidates men, equipment, launches new attack and gains more territory.
5. GOTO 1

Time to use tactical nukes.

I'm almost inclined to agree with you. I really hope that, somehow, the country can save itself. The West needs to a play a part in that too - try to re-energize industry and trade in the country so the Taliban's ideas are less attractive.

 

[Lemon law]

I think we are missing the point here. To only a tiny extent did the British system of common law work at in this area. As a result, those people got government by bribes. Add in the Taliban who advocate a simplistic but brutal justice system, and at least the thieves are stopped at the total expense of woman's rights. But in the clash between the Taliban and Pakistani government forces in Swat, the general populace became caught in a shooting gallery. And even if the apathetic do not care which side wins, its still a matter that the longer the general shooting war lasts, the higher the probability that any given civilian will be killed.
So its better for the general civilian population to see one side or the other win, than it is for the battle to keep going, going, and going on perpetually.

Now that the Taliban has "won" in Swat, some semblance of peace can occur, making the Taliban responsible for the general welfare and justice system. Such wacky religious leadership has occurred many times in world history, and if left alone, such governments generally do not last long in their initial states, and almost always moderate or become so corrupt that they fall of their own weight in a decade or two.

Which is why I believe the Taliban will abandon the anti female parts of Sharia law over time, its simply irrational to not utilize 50% of your own human capital. But right now Sharai law is a binary ideological dispute, somewhat of a bloody shirt to wave around for both sides, and its become a goalpost to measure relative power.

Nor am I worried that the Taliban will be able to expand into the modern areas of Pakistan, the Taliban is simply incompatible with the modern world, and they will soon realize it themselves.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Just because the Islamofascists...

Now you are adopting the right-wing radio idiot labels where they throw a 'bad word' onto the 'enemy' however inaccurate it is.

Whatever the flaws of Islam, following the ideology of Mussoline and Hitler and Franco and to a lesser extent the US US corporotocracy if they had their way is not accurate.

Of course any authoritarian, somewhat tyrannical system has *something* in common with every other such system, but there's a reason facism's definition is not every such system.

Don't degrade the debate with the code words used to keep the righties from any of their own analysis, just lapping down the propaganda. Toss the word 'islamofascist'.

 

[Generator]

The Terrorists are really bothersome. Please don't bother to correct me on the difference between the groups. Because as you can see for yourself there seems to be a consolidation going on. The Terrorists (Arab, A Rab, Al queda, Taliban, Islam, Persians) Conglomerate Incorporated really need some new ideas. The utter disdain for women gives me great comfort. Without women in their plans what can they accomplish? Such a weak group.

But makes you wonder whats wrong with Pakistan. What an impotent country. They will be devoured by the terrorist. And that just make targeting a little easier.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Kadarin
Pakistan could very well lose this war and turn into a radical Islamic nuclear power over time. If this truce holds, I would predict that it won't be that long until the Taliban feels empowered enough to expand past the Swat Valley into other parts of Pakistan.

Pakistan has surrendered. Through these actions it has proven itself both weak and under the control of the Taliban. There is no question that they will continue to inch closer to the nuclear weapons until someone starts killing them.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
I think enough is enough: http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/co...t-official-in-swat--il
We should give one week for the civilian population to leave and start carpet bombing.

LOL... this is the part where we all get to say "I told you so!"

Btw, I love your idea, except something tells me the Taliban won't let the civilians leave. Something tells me that they'd force them to stay in order to use them as human shields. It's the Taliban standard operating procedure.

It's nice to see you stand up and condone the destruction of the Taliban. I only wish your cowardly military/government would do the same...

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
I think enough is enough: http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/co...t-official-in-swat--il
We should give one week for the civilian population to leave and start carpet bombing.

LOL... this is the part where we all get to say "I told you so!"

Btw, I love your idea, except something tells me the Taliban won't let the civilians leave. Something tells me that they'd force them to stay in order to use them as human shields. It's the Taliban standard operating procedure.

It's nice to see you stand up and condone the destruction of the Taliban. I only wish your cowardly military/government would do the same...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see, as usual, that palehorse has a totally exaggerated grip on reality in terms of what military bombing can do. Even if the Taliban lets the civilians flee, the Taliban would just find caves and other natural bomb shelters, and while Nato bombs might level various small and medium sized cities, in general a highly destructive policy, the Taliban would mostly survive, and any returning or non returning civilians would hate Nato and the Pakistani government with ever fiber of their being for the destruction.

We had to kill you to save you reasoning never works, and would cause world wide outrage.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
When the people are wanting their law I don't think why they shouldn't be given it. If one of your states wanted Biblical laws and protested in the streets almost rioting; would the US National Guard be ordered to fire? That's what this is. The British law system has a lot of flaws; and people were getting delayed justice. Cases pending for years. That and the people are uneducated and easily manipulable. Marvels of democracy.

Are the people wanting that law or is it that the Taliban is able to force it down their throats and the Pakistani goverment to weak to stop it.

The Pakistani government is signing the truce because they do not have the capability/willpower to remove the Taliban from the area.

The Taliban took over Afgahnistan until they were kicked out.
Now they have a legit foothold in Pakistan instead.

The domino effect will start soon.


The Swat area will become a staging ground where the Taliban can operate freely.
In 1-2 years, a valley/area adjacent will be "requesting" the same Shari law that has been imposed on Swat..

AFAIK it's going to be the Pakistani army and government that will be controlling the area. It will be THEM that will be implementing Sharia.

If the Army and goverment were able to control the area, there would be no need for a truce with the Taliban.

All this is doing is showing that the Army/government is unable to stand face to face against the Taliban. It is easier for the government to back away than fulfil the mandate of securing it's population.

The Taliban has won another battle against the government. The domino effect will continue. what sembelence of government that may exists in Swat will soon be replaced by Taliban people (either by "accidents" or "elections").

Bowing/groveling to terror only allows it to grow stronger. IT is a cancer that is willing to feed on the host.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
When the people are wanting their law I don't think why they shouldn't be given it. If one of your states wanted Biblical laws and protested in the streets almost rioting; would the US National Guard be ordered to fire? That's what this is. The British law system has a lot of flaws; and people were getting delayed justice. Cases pending for years. That and the people are uneducated and easily manipulable. Marvels of democracy.

Are the people wanting that law or is it that the Taliban is able to force it down their throats and the Pakistani goverment to weak to stop it.

The Pakistani government is signing the truce because they do not have the capability/willpower to remove the Taliban from the area.

The Taliban took over Afgahnistan until they were kicked out.
Now they have a legit foothold in Pakistan instead.

The domino effect will start soon.


The Swat area will become a staging ground where the Taliban can operate freely.
In 1-2 years, a valley/area adjacent will be "requesting" the same Shari law that has been imposed on Swat..

AFAIK it's going to be the Pakistani army and government that will be controlling the area. It will be THEM that will be implementing Sharia.

If the Army and goverment were able to control the area, there would be no need for a truce with the Taliban.

All this is doing is showing that the Army/government is unable to stand face to face against the Taliban. It is easier for the government to back away than fulfil the mandate of securing it's population.

The Taliban has won another battle against the government. The domino effect will continue. what sembelence of government that may exists in Swat will soon be replaced by Taliban people (either by "accidents" or "elections").

Bowing/groveling to terror only allows it to grow stronger. IT is a cancer that is willing to feed on the host.

I get the impression here that The Green Bean supports the Taliban and/or the implementation of Sharia.