Taliban kill 30+ civilians in cold blood

[Lemon law]

I am sure that the people of Pakistan will all be completely mortified when they discover they have lost DealMonkey's seal of approval. But with plenty of blame to go around, its a don't push, don't shove, everybody gets some.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Kabul is now a lonely island surrounded by Taliban-controlled provinces.

That's absolutely ridiculous. The Taliban still does not "control" a single one of Afghanistan's 34 provinces. When the Taliban does take control of any one of the many districts (smaller than provinces), ISAF/NATO/Afghan forces usually remove them within days or weeks.

The only exceptions are those districts along the Afghan-Pakistan border where the Taliban hop back and forth, seemingly at will -- most districts of Helmand Province, East of Kandahar, are the worst example.

The roads and highways we spent so much to build/repair are now being systematically blown up and then owned by the Taliban and their murderous supporters.

We didn't spend nearly enough to build/repair roads to make any sort of difference. The U.S., Germany, and Japan each dropped the ball --badly -- in that regard.

An additional 50,000 miles of paved road and fiber might even save the country.

We lost Aghanistan faster than we won it. Time to pull out every last soldier from Iraq and send them back into Afghanistan. Either that, or accept that we'll never fix Afghanistan and sit down with the Taliban leaders and setup some sort of deal.

Should we include wanton murder, rape, and the elimination of all modernities in that "deal"? If not, I'm not sure how you plan to get the Taliban to accept...

I agree that we need to at least double our troops in Afghanistan. If I were President, I would aim for at least 300,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan by 2012... with maybe 10k left in Iraq for anti-terror operations.

[By the way, I fully blame Pakistan for allowing these fuckers to regroup and plot their re-taking of Afghanistan.]

Swell... it's too bad The Blame Game doesn't get us anywhere.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: event8horizon
addition to the above post.

bin laden apparently had the PROMIS software.

this thread isn't a public restroom, so please take your tinfoil dumps elsewhere...

 

[event8horizon]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: event8horizon
addition to the above post.

bin laden apparently had the PROMIS software.

this thread isn't a public restroom, so please take your tinfoil dumps elsewhere...

well son, i believe he did have PROMIS....get with the program son!!!!

http://www.fromthewilderness.c.../ww3/magic_carpet.html
FTW, October 26, 2001 - 1300 PDT (UPDATED Nov. 16, 2001) - An October 16 FOX News report by correspondent Carl Cameron indicating that convicted spy, former FBI Agent Robert Hanssen, had provided a highly secret computer software program called Promis to Russian organized crime figures - who in turn reportedly sold it to Osama bin Laden - may signal a potential intelligence disaster for the United States. Admissions by the FBI and Justice in the FOX story that they have discontinued use of the software are most certainly a legal disaster for a government that has been engaged in a 16-year battle with the software's creator, William Hamilton, CEO of the Inslaw Corporation. Over those 16 years, in response to lawsuits filed by Hamilton charging that the government had stolen the software from Inslaw, the FBI, the CIA and the Department of Justice have denied, in court and under oath, ever using the software.

Bin Laden's reported possession of Promis software was clearly reported in a June 15, 2001 story by Washington Times reporter Jerry Seper. That story went unnoticed by the major media. In it Seper wrote, "The software delivered to the Russian handlers and later sent to bin Laden, according to sources, is believed to be an upgraded version of a program known as Promis - developed in the 1980s by a Washington firm, Inslaw, Inc., to give attorneys the ability to keep tabs on their caseloads. It would give bin Laden the ability to monitor U.S. efforts to track him down, federal law-enforcement officials say. It also gives him access to databases on specific targets of his choosing and the ability to monitor electronic-banking transactions, easing money-laundering operations for himself or others, according to sources."

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: event8horizon

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: event8horizon
addition to the above post.

bin laden apparently had the PROMIS software.

this thread isn't a public restroom, so please take your tinfoil dumps elsewhere...

well son, i believe he did have PROMIS....get with the program son!!!!

http://www.fromthewilderness.c.../ww3/magic_carpet.html
FTW, October 26, 2001 - 1300 PDT (UPDATED Nov. 16, 2001) - An October 16 FOX News report by correspondent Carl Cameron indicating that convicted spy, former FBI Agent Robert Hanssen, had provided a highly secret computer software program called Promis to Russian organized crime figures - who in turn reportedly sold it to Osama bin Laden - may signal a potential intelligence disaster for the United States. Admissions by the FBI and Justice in the FOX story that they have discontinued use of the software are most certainly a legal disaster for a government that has been engaged in a 16-year battle with the software's creator, William Hamilton, CEO of the Inslaw Corporation. Over those 16 years, in response to lawsuits filed by Hamilton charging that the government had stolen the software from Inslaw, the FBI, the CIA and the Department of Justice have denied, in court and under oath, ever using the software.

Bin Laden's reported possession of Promis software was clearly reported in a June 15, 2001 story by Washington Times reporter Jerry Seper. That story went unnoticed by the major media. In it Seper wrote, "The software delivered to the Russian handlers and later sent to bin Laden, according to sources, is believed to be an upgraded version of a program known as Promis - developed in the 1980s by a Washington firm, Inslaw, Inc., to give attorneys the ability to keep tabs on their caseloads. It would give bin Laden the ability to monitor U.S. efforts to track him down, federal law-enforcement officials say. It also gives him access to databases on specific targets of his choosing and the ability to monitor electronic-banking transactions, easing money-laundering operations for himself or others, according to sources."

LOL... :roll:

 

[event8horizon]

so do u still deny bin laden had PROMIS software?? maybe u should look into the PROMIS software scandel alittle more closely. then think about the software company PTECH and who was behind it and where that software was placed. u might learn something!!

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: event8horizon
addition to the above post.

bin laden apparently had the PROMIS software.

this thread isn't a public restroom, so please take your tinfoil dumps elsewhere...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To palehorse,

Even if you are the OP on this thread, you have no right or ability to act as a censor.
For what its worth, I somewhat agree that this promis stuff is a dubious side issue, but I still support the right of someone to make a case for their theory. And a comment of take it to the rest room does nothing in terms of a well reasoned rebuttal.

I am also surprised about the general lack of Nato support on this P&N thread, which may be a sign that American public opinion is changing. And many are seemingly starting to doubt the wisdom of widening the war into the tribal areas of Pakistan.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

If the "Taliban" just means an assortment of local and tribal interests that have become associated with the ideological label more by happenchance than anything else, then by all means let us - or Karzai - negotiate with some of them, as with the non-Taliban, non-Pashtun warlords, and try thereby to achieve a bit more stability.

But insofar, "Taliban" actually means a core ideological movement - one rather at variance with local tradition but spawned in the madrassas of masculine exile, and supported by Pakistani and nota bene Saudi elements. I can't see that its representatives can usefully be negotiated with - it's a fantasy, fanatic all-or-nothing kind of thing, in which the stress on the subjugation of women and the imposition of a certain kind of Islamic uniformity by force stands in for any serious political program offering hope of development and prosperity for Afghans.

At the ideological level, then, there is nothing to negotiate about, since "Taliban" power cannot mean anything but a rubber-stamped license to terrorize that would inevitable lead to renewed waves of emigration, the destruction - yet again - of the embryonic advances in education and the economy that have been made, fighting with Northern warlords.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: event8horizon
addition to the above post.

bin laden apparently had the PROMIS software.

this thread isn't a public restroom, so please take your tinfoil dumps elsewhere...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To palehorse,

Even if you are the OP on this thread, you have no right or ability to act as a censor.
For what its worth, I somewhat agree that this promis stuff is a dubious side issue, but I still support the right of someone to make a case for their theory. And a comment of take it to the rest room does nothing in terms of a well reasoned rebuttal.

It's thread-crapping with conspiracy-theory bullshit, plain and simple. If you wish to discuss it with him, then you two head-cases can take it elsewhere.

I am also surprised about the general lack of Nato support on this P&N thread, which may be a sign that American public opinion is changing. And many are seemingly starting to doubt the wisdom of widening the war into the tribal areas of Pakistan.

what a ridiculous leap in logic... :roll:

Things in Pakistan are just starting to get interesting; and, I think you'll find that "American public opinion" is still very much in support of entering Pakistan to destroy Al Qaeda -- sooner, rather than later.

LL, going back to the 60-minutes interview with the Maj General Schloesser...
Here, please comment on the question at the 10:13 mark in the video

Wasn't it you who tried to tell me that my own desires to follow AQ and the Taliban into Pakistan were different than my own leaders' desires? On more than one occasion, you implied that my opinion was unique, and that you were grateful that my leaders' felt much different.

Well, I guess you were wrong... again. It looks like my leaders feel the exact same way as I do.

Here, let me help you with the corresponding text version...

More and more of the fighters they face are foreigners, Schloesser told 60 Minutes, coming over the border from Pakistan's tribal areas, where they have sanctuary.

Schloesser believes the fight against the enemy will remain difficult without access to the enemy?s safe havens in Pakistan.

"That seems like an impossible task," Logan says.

"I think it makes it extraordinarily difficult. There's no doubt in my mind. Americans should know that we defend ourselves and we fire right back inside into Pakistan because it is a threat," the general says.

"Well you're right, they do need to know that because it's seven years on," Logan points out.

"And we didn't say this very much. I'm telling you the truth. We do," Schloesser replies.

Still, U.S. soldiers are not authorized to operate at will on Pakistani soil.

Asked if he would like to be able to conduct raids across the Afghan-Pakistani border, Schloesser says, "There's a lot of things I'd like to be able to do in life, Lara, but I'm a professional soldier after 32 years. I do what is legally permissible under the laws, and so here I am."

"But it's got to be frustrating though. I mean I know it's frustrating for the soldiers," Logan says.

"It is," Schloesser agrees. "There's no doubt. There is no doubt."

 

[Lemon law]

To Palehorse,

No one ever said that there is zero military logic or support for widening the war into the tribal areas of Pakistan, the question is will make the overall situation better or worse? We do know Nixon went down that road in Cambodia, and made the situation much worse.

Right now, its also a timing question in what amounts to a seven year struggle. In many ways, as GWB prepares to depart as commander and Chief, IMHO, GWB should let the next President make these decisions,
rather than come up with a ineffectual and hastily thought out scattergun clusterfuck like he is doing now. Especially as Gen. Petraeus prepares to take overall command and has ordered a complete reassessment
of Afghanistan.