How about the line is drawn when a human fetus is visually different from the fetus of the closest ape that is allowed to be hunted.
Zephyr
Zephyr
daniel1113
Diamond Member
- Jun 6, 2003
- 6,448
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So, what exactly happens when an fetus develops a brain? All of a sudden it becomes human?
Every other animal in the world also develops a brain, but they are not human... so, what separates us humans from every other animal? Surely there is something...
Learn how to back up your comments before you answer, "dude".
You need to grow some reasoning skills.
When a human fetus develops a human brain, you can make a strong case that it transforms from human potential (ie sperm and egg, sperm and egg combined) to human. Other animals don't grow a human brain, but of course you already know that.
There has never been a case where doctors could say for sure that a mother would die if she gave birth. There have been several cases where doctors have said the mother would die and the mother decided to have her baby and she did not die.
Doctors are not qualified to tell someone that they are going to die because it is really up to God.So no exceptions not for rape or for medical reasons.
That 8 year old someone mentioned while I am skeptical of her existence if she were real she is s perfectly capable with doctors help of delivering that baby.Her parents would have to decide if they will raise the baby though. Adoption for babies is a good option. Imany older children might go unadopted but not one single baby goes unadopted.Babies are very wanted in lots of good homes.
Doctors are not qualified to tell someone that they are going to die because it is really up to God.So no exceptions not for rape or for medical reasons.
That 8 year old someone mentioned while I am skeptical of her existence if she were real she is s perfectly capable with doctors help of delivering that baby.Her parents would have to decide if they will raise the baby though. Adoption for babies is a good option. Imany older children might go unadopted but not one single baby goes unadopted.Babies are very wanted in lots of good homes.
There's a certain measure of emotional attachment one makes to an 8 year old that hasn't wuite deveolped with an unborn child. The high risk involved with such a child, plus the sick and twisted connotations which the infant is associated in cases of incest or rape, makes abortion a forgiveable decision for me in these rare cases.
But for the most part, I am pro-life.
What about ignorance?
gah, I promised myself I would'nt post in this thread, now see what you've done?!
instigator
Originally posted by: nutxo
What about ignorance?
gah, I promised myself I would'nt post in this thread, now see what you've done?!
instigator
I do what I can.
Here's a link for the abortionist murderers. Pay close attention to the pictures.
Seems like you and the Nazis (maybe you are one in the same) share the same beliefs.
Seems like you and the Nazis (maybe you are one in the same) share the same beliefs.
Originally posted by: nutxo
What about ignorance?
gah, I promised myself I would'nt post in this thread, now see what you've done?!
instigator
That goes under misinformation.
Originally posted by: busmaster11
You need to grow some reasoning skills.
When a human fetus develops a human brain, you can make a strong case that it transforms from human potential (ie sperm and egg, sperm and egg combined) to human. Other animals don't grow a human brain, but of course you already know that.
So are you going to tell me if my point is valid or not, or are you going to cower?
Wow, so surprising to see the pics of late term abortions and say that all abortions are like that. Most aren't.
I found it pretty sick that you'd put an 8 year old child through the trauma of being pregnant and then giving birth because she was raped?
At least you can sleep comfortable in the thought that you will never have to carry to term the child of someone who so horrifically violated you. Try to imagine carrying the child of someone who forced you to have sex with them for 9 months and then giving birth to that child. Rape is hard enough to deal with without producing a living reminder of it.
Let's not also forget that not all children are adopted, you are fooling yourself if you think that is the case.
Adoption Stats
Abortion Stats
So, 600000 abortions 140000 adoptions. Leaves a lot of unwanted kids out there doesn't it? My apologies for not using sensationilist sites for my info backing. Just as an added bonus notice more than half of the abortions were 8 weeks or less, no producing anything like in those links you've provided. Enjoy!
I think if you aren't will to accept the idea that birth is when a fetus becomes a human then the development of a central nervous systems seems fair enough. Single cell organsims react to stimuli but only something with a nervous system can feel pain.
And yes I could've been aborted but then...I wouldn't know that would I? Maybe if my mom's first husband hadn't been killed in a car accident I wouldn't be born either, what ifs don't buy me much. Maybe some abused unwanted child that will one day become a murderer would have been better off had abortion been legal. Talking about maybe's does nothing.
Of course, I'm merely saying things you won't hear. There isn't reasoning with someone who's beliefs are extreme as yours.
Just out of curiousity, do you only have sex to procreate? Of course you do only have unprotected sex with no birth control since any other way is ending a possibility.
<-- Doesn't believe the government should EVER be able to tell someone what to do with their body as long as they aren't harming another person (fetuses aren't people). I definitely don't think men should be saying what women should be allowed to do with their bodies.
Edited to add abortion and adoption stats
I found it pretty sick that you'd put an 8 year old child through the trauma of being pregnant and then giving birth because she was raped?
At least you can sleep comfortable in the thought that you will never have to carry to term the child of someone who so horrifically violated you. Try to imagine carrying the child of someone who forced you to have sex with them for 9 months and then giving birth to that child. Rape is hard enough to deal with without producing a living reminder of it.
Let's not also forget that not all children are adopted, you are fooling yourself if you think that is the case.
Adoption Stats
Abortion Stats
So, 600000 abortions 140000 adoptions. Leaves a lot of unwanted kids out there doesn't it? My apologies for not using sensationilist sites for my info backing. Just as an added bonus notice more than half of the abortions were 8 weeks or less, no producing anything like in those links you've provided. Enjoy!
I think if you aren't will to accept the idea that birth is when a fetus becomes a human then the development of a central nervous systems seems fair enough. Single cell organsims react to stimuli but only something with a nervous system can feel pain.
And yes I could've been aborted but then...I wouldn't know that would I? Maybe if my mom's first husband hadn't been killed in a car accident I wouldn't be born either, what ifs don't buy me much. Maybe some abused unwanted child that will one day become a murderer would have been better off had abortion been legal. Talking about maybe's does nothing.
Of course, I'm merely saying things you won't hear. There isn't reasoning with someone who's beliefs are extreme as yours.
Just out of curiousity, do you only have sex to procreate? Of course you do only have unprotected sex with no birth control since any other way is ending a possibility.
<-- Doesn't believe the government should EVER be able to tell someone what to do with their body as long as they aren't harming another person (fetuses aren't people). I definitely don't think men should be saying what women should be allowed to do with their bodies.
Edited to add abortion and adoption stats
That's where you are wrong. The process of human life begins at conception. If you disrupt this process, you essentially destroy human life. MURDER. This isn't an extremist concept. It's pure logic.
2 wrongs don't make a right. I think rape is a horrible thing and I think rapists should be subject to extreme punishment. But I don't think that it is justification to commit another gruesome injustice.
Your example of birth control is not a valid one. Human life is not set into motion if conception does not occur.
The fetus is a person and it's the government's duty to protect each and every life. Men have every right to voice what they believe. SInce when does gender matter when discussing the protection of human life.
I'm sorry, but your reasoning is poor. There is no logic to it. Abortion is undeniably MURDER.
FrodoB - Could you scroll up and read what I wrote and tell me if you feel it has any validity? That is, to arbitrarily consider an egg and a sperm a "human" just because they've joined to form one cell doesn't mean much. But perhaps when the cells have divided to where brain cells have begun to form, perhaps you can consider that to be the cutoff point. That sounds reasonable to me and also gives those semi-responsible folks out there a small window of opportunity to get an abortion.
lol people stil going on on this thread?
the scientific evidence shows without a doubt that at the moment of conception a."it" is a living growing organism b. "it" is shown to be human through genetic identification. thus a living human...PERIOD.
everything else is an argument based on justification.
goodnight.
You ignored my part about a central nervous system as you've ignored busmaster's claim.
The fact is the argument over abortion is really an argument over when life begins. You say it starts when a sperm and egg join, thats not FACT its your opinion. There is no consensus on when life actually starts.
Given that you can argue that perhaps a middle line would be when a brain or central nervous system begins developing. Before this point whatever it is could probably be scarcely considered a fetus let alone a human.
You will of course retort that life starts at conception and this could go on ad nauseum.
And by making a rape victim carry the rapists child to term you are punishing them as well. There is a procedure that would allow that to not happen but you claim its a form of murder so too bad.
To not agree with abortion is one thing, and stems from the when does life begin case but to say that a rape victim is not allowed an abortion is well...wrong, more wrong then the murder of something without even a nervous system. Two wrongs don't make a right but making the person carry the child constitutes a wrong in my eyes. So either way you get two wrongs, why can't the woman decide?
And it is a gender issue because it is far easier for a man to say 'live with the consequences' when they are not the ones that must live with them.
The fact is the argument over abortion is really an argument over when life begins. You say it starts when a sperm and egg join, thats not FACT its your opinion. There is no consensus on when life actually starts.
Given that you can argue that perhaps a middle line would be when a brain or central nervous system begins developing. Before this point whatever it is could probably be scarcely considered a fetus let alone a human.
You will of course retort that life starts at conception and this could go on ad nauseum.
And by making a rape victim carry the rapists child to term you are punishing them as well. There is a procedure that would allow that to not happen but you claim its a form of murder so too bad.
To not agree with abortion is one thing, and stems from the when does life begin case but to say that a rape victim is not allowed an abortion is well...wrong, more wrong then the murder of something without even a nervous system. Two wrongs don't make a right but making the person carry the child constitutes a wrong in my eyes. So either way you get two wrongs, why can't the woman decide?
And it is a gender issue because it is far easier for a man to say 'live with the consequences' when they are not the ones that must live with them.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,862
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the fact is that even the catholic church used to be ok with abortions until a fetus "quickened"... the fact is most conceptions are flushed as unoticed miscarraiges anyways, god is a big ass abortionist.
i really don't see a huge shortage of orphans... it doesn't seem like anti abortion people put their money were their mouth is
its simply religious fanatics trying to impose their beliefs upon everyone, just like in the middle east. never happy enough that they have the freedom to believe and live their own lives the way they choose. they must impose it forcefully on others. giving others the freedom to disagree is not an option, infidels must be crushed!!
seriously, its absurd and totally based on religion. a dish with 4 cells. a religious person would say thats a human being. others would disagree and say its 4 cells. would i trade those 4 cells to save my dog? F8ck yes!
i really don't see a huge shortage of orphans... it doesn't seem like anti abortion people put their money were their mouth is
its simply religious fanatics trying to impose their beliefs upon everyone, just like in the middle east. never happy enough that they have the freedom to believe and live their own lives the way they choose. they must impose it forcefully on others. giving others the freedom to disagree is not an option, infidels must be crushed!!
seriously, its absurd and totally based on religion. a dish with 4 cells. a religious person would say thats a human being. others would disagree and say its 4 cells. would i trade those 4 cells to save my dog? F8ck yes!
I don't care about the different stages of development. It means nothing. And it's not my opinion that life begins at conception. It's a fact. At that point, this new life is set into motion. I don't care about the stages of development (like the brain or central nervous system). All of those things happen after the fact. You can spin it any way you want, but you will never convince me because I know I'm right and you're wrong. I'm not being closed-minded or religious crazed. You're not destroying the potential of development, you're destroying the actual development of a human. It's wrong and it's primitive.
How is it human before any definitive brain cells have formed? Do you know any humans without a single brain cell?
How is a small shapeless bundle of cells any more than potential?
How can the immediate union of sperm and egg arbitrarily be considered any different then the two separated? Do we need to go out and extract and save all the sperm and eggs from every man and woman so we're not murdering?
I love how pro-choicers absolutely refuse to acknowledge that anyone could be pro-life for other than religious reasons. That makes it all the easier to avoid serious debate on the subject - just throw out a few words like "extremists" and "Taliban", and you don't have to think too hard, right?
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,862
- 84
- 91
its one thing to be pro life, its another thing to force your beliefs on others. the fanatics want to force their beliefs on others. some pro choicers would never have an abortion themselves, they just don't feel arrogant enough to make that choice for others.
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