Taking the Micro 4/3's plunge

[tfinch2]

I've been watching these cameras for awhile. The Panasonic GF1 kit w/20mm f/1.7 finally hit a reasonable price ($650) so I pulled the trigger. Should be here on Friday.

Anyone else using Micro 4/3's around here?

Update: Finally made it out and took a few snaps:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/tfinch2/360jake.jpg
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/tfinch2/360bridge.jpg

Ignore the watermarks, still pondering whether or not I want to buy the software. Still getting used to no viewfinder.

 

[randomlinh]

Have the same combo, bought it with the EVF when it first came out. Looking at the $650 pricetag hurts, haha.

But I love it. I got the 14-45 recently, but have been trying to sell it. Not that it isn't good-it's excellent. But the 20 never leaves my camera and I don't do any video really (the lack of IS is painful for video). sadly, it's undervalued. The new 14-42 isn't as good, and a plastic mount.

 

[brainhulk]

what site has it that for $650? do you guys think that this camera with the f/1.7 is better than the nex-3 (aps-c sensor) and the olympus epl-1?

 

[tfinch2]

what site has it that for $650? do you guys think that this camera with the f/1.7 is better than the nex-3 (aps-c sensor) and the olympus epl-1?

Amazon (out of stock) and B&H. Looks like prices have gone back up though.

There were a couple of things I did not like about the E-PL1:

- Rear panel controls
- Build quality
- Max shutter speed of 1/2000

I considered the NEX-3, but the lens selection is lacking. I'm sure both are fine cameras though.

One thing that concerns me about the GF1 is lack of in-body IS, but I don't think it's going to be a big issue.

 

[randomlinh]

what site has it that for $650? do you guys think that this camera with the f/1.7 is better than the nex-3 (aps-c sensor) and the olympus epl-1?

The Panasonic 20/1.7 is one of the best m43 lenses out there I think. However, bodywise, it gets into what you want. Oly has in body IS, so if you use a lot of adapted lenses, it is quite valuable. Out of the box, oly's jpegs tend to be better. Panasonic has a better AF system, and a less bulky looking VF (and if size isn't TOO much of a concern, the G2 VF is great, along w/ flip out touch LCD and subjectively easier to grip). I also favor panasonic's UI over oly.

The NEX line is arguably better in IQ. It has a bigger sensor, and it's not like sony is new to the game. It'll probably oust any m43 sensor. With that said, one good sensor ousting another good sensor is marginal depending on your needs.

My issue w/ the NEX is UI (I like a wheel somewhere) and that there's no ~50mm equiv fast prime yet. And the zoom is awkward coupled w/ the body (I never liked the F707 styling). But that's subjective.

 

[brainhulk]

Yeah, I'm debating whether to get the 20/1.7 w/the e-pl1/gf1 or just going with a T1i and 50/1.8. how do high can the e-pl1/gf1 go iso wise without getting grainy?

 

[alkemyst]

At the $650 pricepoint why choose 4/3 over dSLR? I am debating TL500 vs G11 vs G1 vs d5000.

 

[brainhulk]

the 4/3 are smaller. But I'm leaning towards valuing iq more now. I changing my mind by the hour it seems...lol

 

[tfinch2]

At the $650 pricepoint why choose 4/3 over dSLR? I am debating TL500 vs G11 vs G1 vs d5000.

The size really appealed to me. I've had many DSLRs over the years, and I find that I am often leaving it at home because I do not want to deal with the bulk.

I considered the G11, but I wanted the flexibility of being able to swap lenses.

 

[jpeyton]

The NEX3/5 are about 1-stop better with noise than m4/3 cameras. They are about as good as the best APS-C DSLR bodies on the market right now (T2i, D5000).

Sony does need more lenses for their NEX system, but I believe those are coming soon. The NEX cameras have been hot sellers for Sony thus far, and I doubt they will do anything but expand their lineup.

 

[alkemyst]

The size really appealed to me. I've had many DSLRs over the years, and I find that I am often leaving it at home because I do not want to deal with the bulk.

I considered the G11, but I wanted the flexibility of being able to swap lenses.

That's the thing though, to me the lenses are the bulk of the size and better full and 4/3 I don't think I'd save much space.

Do they?

 

[tfinch2]

That's the thing though, to me the lenses are the bulk of the size and better full and 4/3 I don't think I'd save much space.

Do they?

It depends. If you're planning on getting 3-4 lenses, and always carrying them with you, then no it is not going to cut down the bulk. I'd say that 95% of the time, I will not be carrying other lenses as the 20mm will be good enough.

The other lens that I plan on getting is the Oly 9-18mm (Unless the rumored 14mm f/2.5 pancake comes out soon and it's a good performer), which is about the size of a small baby food jar.

 

[randomlinh]

Yeah, I'm debating whether to get the 20/1.7 w/the e-pl1/gf1 or just going with a T1i and 50/1.8. how do high can the e-pl1/gf1 go iso wise without getting grainy?

m43+20/1.7 is a different beast than the T1i+50/1.8. That's an effective 40mm vs 80mm. Not to mention I think the 20/1.7 is worlds better than the 50. And a hell of a lot more compact of a system (which of course, may not matter really).

I have no hesitation in pushing to 3200, but I wouldn't expect to blow it up all that much. And I don't find the noise all that terrible. Others wouldn't take it past 800. *next few links are large full sized* This is nearly a 100 percent crop. Here the shadows are pretty bad. And I could probably reprocess with LR3, but just some extreme examples. *edit* here is LR3, I bumped the exposure a little too much, but the color blotchy-ness is a lot better. If you aren't 100% on your monitor pixel peeping, it is usable to me. I'm not trying to sell these pictures.

The NEX3/5 are about 1-stop better with noise than m4/3 cameras. They are about as good as the best APS-C DSLR bodies on the market right now (T2i, D5000).

Sony does need more lenses for their NEX system, but I believe those are coming soon. The NEX cameras have been hot sellers for Sony thus far, and I doubt they will do anything but expand their lineup.

Yeah, I suspect we'll see a "better" NEX camera in terms of having some buttons and more direct control later. The camera is aimed squarely at the p&s crowd. They will likely have something along the lines of a GH1, but a little more compact.

 

[foghorn67]

Glad you found one. I need to take the plunge eventually. I get indecisive when trying to figure out if I need to bring the DSLR or the tiny P&S.

 

[drquest]

I have a DMC-GF1 and a DMC-G1 myself, both nice cameras. Been considering picking up the 20mm as well wish it was a little cheaper. I have the 14-45mm and 45-200mm.

 

[brainhulk]

damn, the gf1 with the 20mm/1.7 went down to $650 tonight on amazon. So i just had to get it. cant wait to play with this puppy

 

[jpeyton]

The NEX-3/16mm kit is $550; the NEX-5/16mm kit is $650. That's why Panasonic was forced to drop their price.

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/f41/...shootout-nex5-nx10-e-p2-e-pl1-gf1-g2-gh1-314/

In regards to noise, the NEX-3/5 are about 1 stop (a little less at low-ISO, a little more at high-ISO) better than m4/3 cameras.

 

[mooncancook]

I've got the Sony NEX-5 with 18-55 lens for over a month now. I love everything about it except the menu. The hand grip is very comfortable to hold for such a small body. IQ and MQ are impressive. It's quite an attention getter too. I sold all my P&S after getting the NEX5.

Lens selection is definitely lacking. I really want to get the $150 fisheye but it's always OOS. Sony has a promotion now too, $800for NEX-5 with both 18-55 and 16mm lenses (or $700 for NEX-3). It makes me regret a little for buying a little early.

 

[tfinch2]

Finally made it out and took a few snaps:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/tfinch2/360jake.jpg
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/tfinch2/360bridge.jpg

Ignore the watermarks, still pondering whether or not I want to buy the software. Still getting used to no viewfinder.

 

[foghorn67]

Finally made it out and took a few snaps:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/tfinch2/360jake.jpg
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/tfinch2/360bridge.jpg

Ignore the watermarks, still pondering whether or not I want to buy the software. Still getting used to no viewfinder.

That's the kind of HDR I like. The non-radioactive type.
Nice snaps, nice treatment.

 

[preslove]

Damn, the gf1 with the 20mm is back up over $700

 

[Homerboy]

Excuse my ignorance... I'm no "photographer" by any stretch of the imagination, but I stumbled into this thread...

So these 4/3 are basically a "combo"... a happy medium between a cheap, limiting point and shoot and a full blown dSLR? I really was starting to ramp up looking for a dSLR as the PnS cameras I have had have always jut been so limiting. But was intimidated by the complexity and put off by the "bulk" of a dSLR.

Maybe this is the type of camera I should be looking into?

 

[ElFenix]

Excuse my ignorance... I'm no "photographer" by any stretch of the imagination, but I stumbled into this thread...

So these 4/3 are basically a "combo"... a happy medium between a cheap, limiting point and shoot and a full blown dSLR? I really was starting to ramp up looking for a dSLR as the PnS cameras I have had have always jut been so limiting. But was intimidated by the complexity and put off by the "bulk" of a dSLR.

Maybe this is the type of camera I should be looking into?

they use a sensor that was developed for olympus's SLRs. panasonic bought into the system (probably thinking they'd do something like this once they learned the basics). the sensor size is about 1/4 the size of a 35mm camera frame (it's fairly close in size to 110 film if you remember that stuff). that means that you can make smaller and/or faster lenses (the faster lenses are necessary because the sensor is smaller, though, in order to create the same DoF at the same AoV). for the same technology the size difference between APS and 4/3 is ~2/3 or 3/4 of a stop noise performance.

anyway, first panasonic and olympus came out with these sorts of cameras, and now sony has. the sony has a larger sensor but i'd rather have the panasonic lens line up now (20 mm on 4/3 is much more useful than the 16mm is on sony, just too wide for usual work). plus the sony looks like it has handling issues (they did everything to make it as small as possible, form before function) panasonic should be releasing new cams shortly so they may catch closer up to the 2/3 that physics says it's behind. the panasonics should focus faster.

 

[alkemyst]

Keep in mind the lenses are very different between the typical P&S, the 4:3 and the dSLR vs 35mm cameras. A 24mm 4:3 lens is about equivalent to a 50mm 35mm lens.

Also to factor in is the aspect ratio on a 4:3 camera is exactly that, a standard dSLR is 3:2.

 

[Homerboy]

they use a sensor that was developed for olympus's SLRs. panasonic bought into the system (probably thinking they'd do something like this once they learned the basics). the sensor size is about 1/4 the size of a 35mm camera frame (it's fairly close in size to 110 film if you remember that stuff). that means that you can make smaller and/or faster lenses (the faster lenses are necessary because the sensor is smaller, though, in order to create the same DoF at the same AoV). for the same technology the size difference between APS and 4/3 is ~2/3 or 3/4 of a stop noise performance.

anyway, first panasonic and olympus came out with these sorts of cameras, and now sony has. the sony has a larger sensor but i'd rather have the panasonic lens line up now (20 mm on 4/3 is much more useful than the 16mm is on sony, just too wide for usual work). plus the sony looks like it has handling issues (they did everything to make it as small as possible, form before function) panasonic should be releasing new cams shortly so they may catch closer up to the 2/3 that physics says it's behind. the panasonics should focus faster.

Interesting. Very intersting.
That's the technical/historical mumbo jumbo... is the rest of what I said.suggested then true in regards to size, etc?