Taking it upon yourself...

[n yusef]

Something that has been bugging me a lot recently is that some people feel the need to decide what others can't do, even if that action has no impact at all in their life.

For instance, some people don't want to allow people of the same sex to get married. Personnally, I just don't care if they get married or not, because whether or not gays can marry doesn't affect me (unless I want it to). If two guys that I don't know decide that they want to get married, why should I care enough to make legislation about it.

A lot of people want to ban abortion. I don't like the idea of anyone getting killed either, but then it dawned on me,"I don't care what some stranger does, because it doesn't affect me." Especially since most women that want an abortion are poor, which means their children are just going to be another generation eating off of our tax money, driving Bimmers from their Welfare checks. Not to mention that anyone who wants an abortion isn't someone who is going to be a good parent.

If someones (potential) actions causes harm to you (or someone you know), then complain about it, but if it's none of your fscking business, why do you care so much?

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Taking OP's logic to it's eventual end: "...and when they came for me, there was no one left."

 

[Harvey]

Regardless of how negative an abortion is when considered in isolation, there are plenty of good, ethical, morally justifiable reasons why a woman may want/need one and make that choice as the best of bad alternatives.

The most important thing is to make sure the service is available from competent medical professionals. Those who want to interfere with that are anal self righteous pricks who need a good dose of the reality of an unwanted pregnancy shoved into their personal lives.

The same is true for gay marriage. Why should anyone give a sh8 if a loving couple who happen to be gay chooses to share a life with someone else of the same sex? Why should they be denied the same civil rights and privileges available to a straight couple?

If your answer comes from your religion, then practice it in your own life. Your right to impose your values stops when you want to impose your values on someone else's life.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Taking OP's logic to it's eventual end: "...and when they came for me, there was no one left."

You forgot the "....yadda yadda ya..." in the middle of that.

By your logic, yadda yadda ya, and after 10 days I got my Candy Bar purchase order release number!

 

[CKent]

I too don't understand the stance against gay marriage. I can understand how religious people might be against abortion, though as an atheist I see a fetus as nothing mroe than a lump of cells, and abortion as a good thing.

 

[glenn1]

By the same token, why does it affect the progressive folks out there if folks in "flyover country" decide to teach Intelligent Design in the classroom, or pass a Concealed Carry law for firearms? Both liberals and conservatives have a bad habit of not being able to mind their own business. Of course, as a Libertarian I basically want the federal government to leave me the hell alone period aside from the implicit bargain that I'll send them my taxes and in return they'll build the roads and take care of defense.

 

[Moonbeam]

The notion that that lump of cells is a human life is practically irresistible because we project onto it our own potential. The problem is trying to determine what to do with the situation in which we find ourselves. We are animals that love sex and cannot control when we conceive with our minds and only half of us can get pregnant. These facts on the ground create problematic and serious situations. Essentially women are slaves to biology and bare the brunt if a pregnancy is unwanted. Between these two irreconcilable positions we do the best we can to accommodate reality as most serious people try to see it.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: n yusef
A lot of people want to ban abortion. I don't like the idea of anyone getting killed either, but then it dawned on me,"I don't care what some stranger does, because it doesn't affect me." Especially since most women that want an abortion are poor, which means their children are just going to be another generation eating off of our tax money, driving Bimmers from their Welfare checks. Not to mention that anyone who wants an abortion isn't someone who is going to be a good parent.

Does that mean you don't care about murder as long as its not you?

Something that has been bugging me a lot recently is that some people feel the need to decide what others can't do, even if that action has no impact at all in their life.

Yeah, like setting up my own retirement plan and health care.

 

[Kadarin]

The real forces behind the movements against abortion and gay marriage have to do with enforcing sexual morality, I think.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: n yusef
Something that has been bugging me a lot recently is that some people feel the need to decide what others can't do, even if that action has no impact at all in their life.

For instance, some people don't want to allow people of the same sex to get married. Personnally, I just don't care if they get married or not, because whether or not gays can marry doesn't affect me (unless I want it to). If two guys that I don't know decide that they want to get married, why should I care enough to make legislation about it.

A lot of people want to ban abortion. I don't like the idea of anyone getting killed either, but then it dawned on me,"I don't care what some stranger does, because it doesn't affect me." Especially since most women that want an abortion are poor, which means their children are just going to be another generation eating off of our tax money, driving Bimmers from their Welfare checks. Not to mention that anyone who wants an abortion isn't someone who is going to be a good parent.

If someones (potential) actions causes harm to you (or someone you know), then complain about it, but if it's none of your fscking business, why do you care so much?

Well I keep being told by the Right that the Gays are going to bust down my front door and convert me.

The Right also is pissed off about losing all those potential votes everytime there is an abortion.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Taking OP's logic to it's eventual end: "...and when they came for me, there was no one left."

You forgot the "....yadda yadda ya..." in the middle of that.

By your logic, yadda yadda ya, and after 10 days I got my Candy Bar purchase order release number!

Exactly - I support the OP's position but the logic isn't quite right.

In the case of gay marriage, the argument can be changed to 'it doesn't affect anyone', meaning there is no slippery slope to be had.

For abortion, it's much more complex, and is based essentially on a person's right to sovereignty over their own body. Now I personally have never heard of one functioning conjoined twin being allowed to force surgery to remove the other, who is incapable of survivng the operation, so I don't think there's a slippery slope problem here.

OTOH, Florida has just legalized murder (as long as it's committed with a legally owned gun), so who knows.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
The real forces behind the movements against abortion and gay marriage have to do with enforcing bigotry, I think.

Fixed.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: n yusef
A lot of people want to ban abortion. I don't like the idea of anyone getting killed either, but then it dawned on me,"I don't care what some stranger does, because it doesn't affect me." Especially since most women that want an abortion are poor, which means their children are just going to be another generation eating off of our tax money, driving Bimmers from their Welfare checks. Not to mention that anyone who wants an abortion isn't someone who is going to be a good parent.

Does that mean you don't care about murder as long as its not you?

Something that has been bugging me a lot recently is that some people feel the need to decide what others can't do, even if that action has no impact at all in their life.

Yeah, like setting up my own retirement plan and health care.

You are going to compare muder to abortion, because your religion says that a fetus is a person. I disagree with this, but if we do say that it is true, there still are major differences in the situation.

If a woman and her doctor both decide that abortion is for the best, and the fetus doesn't plead for it's life (, then I think that an abortion should be legal, as a last case scenario. Just like I believe the death penalty should exist, as a last case scenario.

Killing another human who has a family to care for and provide for is obviously WAY worse than making some poor woman raise a child (against her will) who she probably hates by herself. As someone who grew up without much parental presence, I can tell you from firsthand knowledge that the kid has so much higher of a chance of getting into trouble with the law than a kid whose parents are their to supervise what the kid does, and apply discipline when s/he goes wrong.

Not to mention abortions usually come with a single mother, because the guy runs when he realizes he's gonna be some girl's baby's daddy.

A fetus may be a live human as you say, but it's responsibility to it's family, friends and the rest of the world is nonexistant.

Imagine growning up your whole life knowing how much your mom wished you didn't exist. That is NOWHERE near the ideal parenting situation.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Well I keep being told by the Right that the Gays are going to bust down my front door and convert me.

Oh come on Dave... would they really have to bust down your door to get you to convert?

 

[redhatlinux]

My opinions on this topic could bee seen as clashing with my strong Christian beliefs, but they don't. I believe that in the Torah, or at least early Jewish teaching if a woman was with child and doesn't not want the child, then no law is broken and no sin is committed. But if a woman is with child and the child is removed by force, a law is broken and a sin committed. Never is the woman at fault. I believe that the soul belongs to GOD and if the soul is not wanted then a new body will be found for that soul.


I used to have issues with Gay relationships and marriage. But, I have some really fine Lesbian friends, very committed, not at all promiscuous, they changed my opinions. By that I mean I changed my opinions, they never tried to change them.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Well I keep being told by the Right that the Gays are going to bust down my front door and convert me.

And they're going to start fornicating in the streets in front of the children! What if a gay married couple moved in next door? OH NOES! SAVE ME JEBUS!

 

[Todd33]

Who said that conservatives care about children from the fetus until the birth?

As for gay marriage, it's not religious, they just hate gays. Jesus didn't say one word about gays, he was pro-peace though, look how well they heed his message...

 

[CaptnKirk]

What are your sentiments about 'Gay Abortion' ?