Take this hobby and shove it.....

cautery

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
374
0
71
I'm posting part of a response I wrote to another post here and in several/many other forums. I am not attempting to SPAM anyone, simply trying to get my message across to the broad range of folks I have conversed/worked/had fun with over the last several years. Please allow me this bit of latitude. I have never before, nor will I ever again, "push" the limits of Forum rules or etiquette. Thanks,

WARNING: This may appear to be a flame. It is NOT. I am simply voicing my long-held beliefs on a topic on which I have extremely strong convictions, and about which, I have held my tongue to long. No one individual should take offense, as this is not directed at any ONE person.

Let's do a "gut check" here people. I have come to literally avoid having to cruise the Forums and the many Hardware Review Sites I've been known to frequent. Why? Read on....

I am so sick and tired of every "Johnny-come-lately" with a thermistor, teenage wannabe engineers, and "Gotta Have Brand X; your wrong, I'm right no matter what the facts say; I have a website, so I'm an expert.... my hit counter proves it; and idiots of ALL ages continually posting not only misleading, but downright wrong information, results, procedures, half-assed "scientific" comparisons, etc, etc.... ad freakin' nauseum on the Forums and so-called hardware review websites.

The fact is that there are virtually NO true experts anywhere around online. Some of us are "smarter than the average bear", and a very few of us actually know what we are talking about when we post.... and even these few sometimes make mistakes occasionally. Even knowledgeable folks make errors at times.

BUT, there are a LARGE number of folks passing themselves off in the Computer Hardware, Performance, and Cooling Community as EXPERTS, when in fact they don't really know their collective asses from the proverbial "hole in the ground." This fact is (which unfortunately is NOT generally recognized by the majority of knowledge seekers on the Net/Forums) that these so-called "experts/reviewers" generally are not even remotely competent to review toilet paper, much less the vast array of hardware they regularly suck up for FREE from the manufacturer (or small-business.... usually online-type). Now you can't really fault the businesses, as they are simply out for a little "free/low-cost" advertising in their own self-interest.... not entirely "Kosher", but at least it's understandable.... and obvious.

The guys running these "review" sites would have you think that THEY are "Moses come down from the Mount" to deliver the "divine law" on computer hardware. Wake up y'all.... They aren't.... None of them are.... A few.... VERY few, are knowledgeable enough that I would be comfortable saying that "OK, you can listen to them as an opinion... but NOT an authority." Sadly, MOST of the current review sites are MUCH more interested in their visitor counts, and page views, than in the accuracy or quality of the content and conclusions they publish.

NO ONE PERSON (or staff to my knowledge) has the knowledge, experience, and expertise to hold themselves up as an AUTHORITY on such a broad range of topics as are routinely included on review sites and forums. There ARE however a FEW folks that I would place my trust in. These folks don't offer themselves up as experts in everything as some do... they generally confine their opinions to their limited area of experience.

In fact, in the case of the FORUMS, the majority of the folks who could be reasonably called experts or authorities in a field are generally "run off" the forums by the overwhelming voice of the galactically stupid who generally infest most forums with their inane and generally stupendously idiotic "measurements", "comparisons", or other fantasy-land story posted to make them feel better about the purchase decisions they themselves made. I've seen it happen people.... I mean, what well-respected engineer or other recognized expert is going to keep coming back to these Forums when they keep having to endure idiots and pimply-faced teenagers disparaging them, disputing fact with supposition and fiction, and generally acting like jack-asses. The sane choice is to say, "Screw it! Let 'em drown in their own ignorance. I'm out?a here!"

Frankly, I'm tired too. It's simply a matter of numbers here folks... If a few people are trying to test and report facts, and scientific information, and in opposition, a few HUNDRED or more continually post incomplete, innacurate, or simply WRONG information (either by ignorance, obstinance, or by design), the incorrect information will begin to be "accepted" as fact..... repeated, etc....

It's akin to the "Big Lie" theory used by the better historical propagandists. If you tell the people a big enough lie, and you tell it often enough, they will accept it as truth in spite of facts to the contrary.

People, it's more than just whether heatsink X is better than heatsink Y, or Spacely Sprockets are better or worse than Cogswell Cogs.... It is much more serious than that. We have a serious problem here (and elsewhere). There is a serious shortage of critical thinking skills in the world an particularly here in the Computer Enthusiast community. One would think that the average level of intelligence would be higher here than in the populace as a whole. Well, it may be, but the level is most certainly also declining rapidly. As my favorite math teacher used to say to his advanced students, "I don't care if the tests say you are a genius. If you don't have plain old "Horse Sense", you WILL fail my class." One of the wisest men I ever met.... taught us a whole lot more than math.... he taught us to think, to question, and to be satisfied with nothing less than the truth.

So many people have simply abandoned common sense and intellect and replaced it with polls, consumer reviews, and "talking heads" that it's becoming the exception rather than the rule to find a truly independent thinker anymore. Why? Because thinking is hard... it takes training, practice, effort, and above all a thirst for truth. A growing majority of folks have joined the proverbial "flock of sheep" being led around by half-truth (or worse), unsubstantiated opinion, and marketing hype. Once again, "Why?" I'll tell you. Because a sheep doesn't have to THINK. He doesn't have to train his mind, exercise it, practice, and work hard at getting to the truth. The sheep need only follow with his nose up the butt of the sheep in front. The sheep is tended well enough.... fed "enough", given "enough" water, etc. Need anyone be reminded however that the sheep is NOT FREE. Not in his mind or in his person. At any time the sheep is subject to "fleecing" for what he has produced, or simply liquidated for the "nourishment" his very body will provide to his owners' table or bank accounts.

Do you want to know what is REALLY sad? Some of the folks who manage the attention span to read this entire post simply won't "get it". They are already well-integrated into the "flock". They've surrendered their minds to the "Big Lie" and its relative ilk. They've sold their freedom for comfort and leisure. You see, to the well-indoctrinated, folks like me appear as the exception rather than the rule. When folks like me... those who stand up, make logical arguments, challenge "established" norms, express new/different ideas, etc... speak out without equivocation, we are branded "out there", "extreme", blah, blah, yadda freakin' yadda....

Well ladies and gentlemen.... To those who know me, I'll miss you guys. To those whom I've never had occasion to meet but WOULD have liked, I'm sorry I didn't have a chance to speak with and share ideas with you. To the rest of you.... members of the "flock", and other non-aligned members of the willingly ignorant I say:

"Screw it! Let 'em drown in their own ignorance. I'm out?a here!" :D

Signing off....
 

Mikewarrior2

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 1999
7,132
0
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Tack on an additional problem where many times people will not ready an ENTIRE thread before posting a very repetitive reply....


Mike
 

Monel Funkawitz

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
5,105
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There is the spoken words of a true genious :D

We will miss ya Clay. You can't change the minds of a whole culture. You will just go crazy trying. Dumb people will prevail and rule the world. It has always been that way.

Hasta la Pizza... bro.
 

JWMiddleton

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2000
5,686
172
106
Wow cautery, that was one hell of a post! I assume that since you said that you are out of here that will not see the replies.:) But, just in case. I gave up years ago with the crap that gets disseminated on the Net. If I have a problem I look in the newgroups via Deja.com and know enough to weed through the crap and pick out the solution to my problem(s). So much of what you read is exactly as you said: justification for a purchase.

Anyway, I wish you luck. God bless!
 

Mikewarrior2

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 1999
7,132
0
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Here's one of them... THe vastly common belief(perpetuated by many websites, might I add) that the thermistor underneath a socket A(or p3) cpu is accurate.



Mike
 

cheuyungphat

Member
Aug 12, 2000
166
0
0
Cautery!

You have posted an absolutely beautiful foray into the psychology of the human condition in society today. You are experiencing but the tip of the ice-burg behind the "Sheep-ist" mentality that currently exists. I found an interesting post in another forum that I frequent (not hardware related) so I thought I would post it here. Hope it is of some value?


?Regarding Human Beings (well...people in general :)

It is so very peculiar to see how society and "humanly" values have changed from when I was a young boy many years ago. Technology has developed so profoundly yet our development as "human beings" still stagnates in the cesspool of greed, materialism, self-righteousness and insecurity like a bad fart on a windless day.

I hope I do not seem angry or caustic, for that is not my intension. I am old man well beyond the need for argument, although I am still capable of heated debate ;-). I am simply moved to share a little insight from my experience in life...(an old man who enjoys the ability to "stand on his soapbox" for the attention of any that care to "hear" or "share"...hmmm, that?s a nice word SHARE, yep we need more of that.). Hopefully the younger generation can take interest, and raise some hell for what is "MORALLY RIGHT and CORRECT" for humans, as they will lead us into our future, wherever it may be.

I remember watching my father shed tears when he saw man first walk on the moon. He told me of his father doing the same when he first saw man take off in flight in an airplane. Our technology, commercialism and that nasty corporate mentality have developed so rapidly making our lives so much more complicated. Yet we still cannot come to grips with what it is to be a "human being", or at least a "good" human being.

We now have the Internet (one of the many mind bogglers' for a man of my age) - this wonderful forum of "freedom of thought and expression" (and wicked commercialism...always a thorn in my side). Yet we continue to be lousy "human beings"...so needy of attention, chained to our desperate and loud voice of self-interest, selfishness and insecurity.

Well now for this old man to make his point, enough preaching. People both young and old are so very unhappy and disheartened about what really "matters" today. Our lives and how we SHOULD live are PREDETERMINED by the commercialism in our society, the current advertisement on television, radio, the newspaper (and hell, now even the internet!). We have lost our ability to focus on what is right and what is wrong...for ourselves and for others. We chase the "new" and "improved" in mutual competition, or we are content with watching the problems of others on television rather than solving our own. We are so willing to give up our common sense to accept the authority of another for the simple fact that ?the other? is a SELF-PROCLAIMED authority! What ever happened to the notion of thinking for ourselves? Relying on our own judgment? And why is everyone so quick to give IDIOTS authoritarian status?

There are so many reasons behind this ugly burden that so many carry, I could write a book...(I will attempt to not begin one right here). I do see that it weighs down heavily upon so many hearts and minds. From dissatisfaction rises the ugliness; behavior and sentiment that only we "humans" can possibly conjure that can make us so "unholy".

People need to STOP, and begin to listen, love, share, debate patiently, build, be creative, understand, laugh, hear, discover, learn, make love, laugh while making love ;-), help, cry, know when we are wrong, FEEL WHAT IT IS TO BE A HUMAN ? NOT A SHEEP!!!

Nastiness arises from dissatisfaction or frustration. 9 times out of 10 it develops from looking into the big mirror of life and thinking...Hell I don?t care too much for what I see (I learned this during the first 40 years of my life). We try to be opinionated to sound intelligent, we adopt behaviors to be "accepted" and often we believe or place too much influence on our satisfaction from everything that we are TOLD or SOLD. In the end all we are is foolish. Our insecurities continue this vicious cycle with the self-induced ?stubbornness? that can only be matched by that of a jackass.

I?m not sure how much of what I have written holds importance for anyone...but hopefully it does. It is a beautiful thing to be a human being, so very powerful.

It would be a great thing if humanity could solve all the problems that we have created. Maybe the future generations could start with simply the problems that we have made for ourselves as individuals, and then tackle the world. Well that?s my two cents worth.

An Old, Saddened, Hippie?
 

Nick Stone

Golden Member
Oct 14, 1999
1,033
0
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Hey
I get a certain amount of satisfaction from helping people. I realize that I'm no expert and try to help in the narrow ways that I can. I also learn. It actually seems like an every day part of life to separate the wheat from the chaff or pick the "good stuff" out of a thread and move on. It's just life. I don't get to associate with pure, intellectual geniuses in the rest of my life. So why expect it here. I know that there are many true experts who read some of these threads and tire of setting the newbies straight. I can sympathize with that. Ever notice that if a knowlegdable Elite member has a problem -- several elite members suddenly appear to help? They've been lurking all along and "saving their strength" to post when it counts. Remember we can't save the the world from itself. And you can't usually change someone's mind if they aren't receptive to a good thinking process. Life goes on.
 

SamS

Member
Sep 29, 2000
49
0
0
I agree somewhat with cautery's post.

On the other hand, I think he is taking himself (amongst other things) a little bit too seriously.
 

Bartman39

Elite Member | For Sale/Trade
Jul 4, 2000
8,867
51
91
Ya know thats sounds a lot like "My boy there`s a sucker born every day"





Bayliff....Valium please!!!!!
 

R0b0tN1k

Senior member
Jun 14, 2000
308
0
0
Cautery, nice post! It's nice to see someone out there can see what's really going on. I now how you feel...coming to places like this and seeing the sme stupid posts with the same stupid replies really gets to a person. I'll only reply to a post that challenges my knowledge and might teach me something new. Thank you!
 

DarkRipper

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2000
1,351
0
71
Didn't you post this before?

I think I replied to that thread, and my reply isn't here....


DR
:)
 

Gogga

Member
Feb 6, 2000
177
0
0
Hi,

I totally agree with you on the issue "review" sites, who give out subjective opionions and some cases, force junk down our throats. But I dont agree with you on your opinions about newsgroups.

These (Anandtech newsgroup in particular) newsgroups are visited by computer enthuiasts who like to share their experiences with all of us. As far as I am concerned, I visit this forum often because I learn stuff here too. I am currently busy studying electronics and some of the things I have read here, has been invaluable additional information for my studies.

I do find it tiresome to see the hundredth poll of "AMD/Intel is better" or "Which videocard is better", but some do appreciate the informative stuff that pop around sometimes.

Some people do ask advice and like them to share our experiences with them about some computer PartX or whatever. And maybe we do sometime give bad or inaccurate advice, but still we are here because we like to learn things. All people make mistakes and nobody is 100% perfect.

Also not all people like to think about things. Some people are listeners, some people like to think and some like to analyse and others like to explore. We are all different. Earth would have been a boring place if everyone was a thinker.

Regards,
Gogga
 

AMDfreak

Senior member
Aug 12, 2000
909
0
71
Here here cautery, and excellent reply Gogga. I'm pretty new to the Anandtech forums, it's the first forum I've found worthwhile to join. I've been building systems for a few years now (strictly amatuer) but I've found the forums here to be an invaluble resource. I try to help people whenever I can with what I know, and I've had many of my own questions receive excellent answers. I like seeing what others' opinions are, although I do generally avoid the flame wars that pop up occasionally and then die like an annoying brush fire. Hopefully, we won't lose more valuble, knowlegeable members to the pettiness that is present almost everywhere. I think it is up to us, the responsible and serious members, as well as the moderators to discourage flame wars and pettiness and the like so that this can continue to be one of the best think tanks on the net.

Just my $0.02
 

xroyal

Member
Sep 27, 2000
175
0
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Very interesting and obviously heartfelt sentiments. However, the ability and challenge in "thinking" includes the ability to listen carefully, judge the ability of the speaker, weigh the options, and then be bold enough to make a move.

I was once in a career class where 30 of us,after 2 months,were given an open book-class discussion exam. You could work alone or seek answers with anyone. The test was one of those monumental head twisters. I tackled it own my own. The premises simply didn't lead to a logical conclusion, which I imparted to the instructors. They didn't like my position, and asked me to keep trying. I did, including listening to others. This was to be up to a 3 hour exam. After 1.5 hours, I was the first one to hand in my paper with the original negative response. Bad input, no conclusion. (This was tricky to do because my employer was running the course, and I needed my job.) Thank goodness I was proved right. The others had good ideas, but they didn't fit my thinking.

These forums are terrific, especially if you learn who are the more proficient players. There are a lot of really nice people who enjoy helping others. Who knows you may get to help someone to. That doesn't stop someone from also excersizing some independant thinking and judgement as well.

I hope I don't get to the point where I think I have all the answers. Besides the act of sharing and growing together can be FUN too.

 

Abomination

Senior member
Aug 1, 2000
201
0
0
I couldn't be more empathetic (or some kind of word) with AMDfreak. I've been building my own systems from scratch for around three years (at most amateur) and I certainly don't know everything about computers but what I find offensive about Cautery's post is that he targets the "newbies" of the community. This is a W E B S I T E is it not? If you want to have such intellectual conversations about exchanging ideas with the gurus of the community without the hassle of the rest of us, why are you on a website? $]-[!t, out of time, gotta continue conversation later.

PS: Everyone has to start somewhere.
 

duragezic

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
11,234
4
81
I hate posers who think they're punk. Trendy MTV people who all of a sudden like snowboarding and skatboarding. "BLINK 182 ROCKS! I LOVE 'ALL THE SMALL THINGS'!

Heh, yeah it's the Overclocking section. Seems to be kind of off topic, oh well.
 

cgclausen

Senior member
Aug 6, 2000
290
0
0
Towards the end of his post I couldn't help thinking about the book Fahrenheit 451. Anyone else read that book and know what I mean? Or am I the only one? Oh well. Bye
 

sango

Junior Member
Aug 27, 2000
4
0
0
Point taken but,

1. Its a free world
2. You said it, its a Hobby, like aeromodelling, Hotting up cars.
3. You've voiced your opinion.
 

Celeryman

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
310
0
76
Alright, here we go... I think this hobby is great and fantastic. I hope to one day put all of my knowledge to use (I don't profess to know everything or anywhere near everything, but am gaining more and more knowledge all the time). To be realistic I want to make this hobby a job and in turn support my future family. Wouldn't that be cool. A job that you actually like but it puts food on the table. A revolutionary idea! Maybe some people think that they "know it all", but most people on this message board respect each other and try to help each other out. I think that's why Anand put this message board up in the first place. So we could confer with each other, further our knowledge of computers, and help each other with our problems building or fixing pc's. If you take anything on this message board too personally I would suggest that you stop visiting just like cautery. I don't think this message board should be a integral part of your life. On the other hand, I am shure that nobody makes you visit this message board. I agree that there should be a lot of things more important than hardware sites and message boards in your life, but this hobby in general does not comprimise anybody's beliefs. As I get older, I feel that beliefs are most important at the personal level. Thats when it effects you the most. In the past year I have had to let this hobby take backstage (never was foremost, and never will be) becuase I moved out on my own and had other things I needed to worry about. When I do have some free time on my hands I do jump online and visit this site and many other sites. As for "fads", such as aggressive skating and snowboarding (of which I enjoy both of them), I enjoyed them a lot more before they came so commercialized.
 

Rigoletto

Banned
Aug 6, 2000
1,207
0
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I wish this cautery would shut up. It is not enough for him to go like a normal person, he has to go as showily as an opera diva.:| on the stage.
Now is it really anything other than selfish, attention seeking and melodramatic to post the same silliness on several forums?

*oh I forgot, he's really up himself too. Too bad you lot pass his pap off as profundity.