Taiwan opposition triumphs in elections

[Pepsei]

Originally posted by: prontospyder

Taiwan's central election commission projected that Ma Ying-jeou had won more than 58 percent versus Frank Hsieh's 41 percent, with most of the votes counted.

Link

Wow - 75% voter turnout - pretty impressive.

75% is actually lower than before.... but impressive compare to the us

 

[Pepsei]

i will always be for pro Independence.... however.. i can be easily persuaded if say china remove 'the party' and let people be the leaders, oh yeah get rid of those lame Chinese written system from the dark ages of culture revolution. bring back traditional Chinese characters.

 

[sunzt]

Originally posted by: Pepsei
i will always be for pro Independence.... however.. i can be easily persuaded if say china remove 'the party' and let people be the leaders, oh yeah get rid of those lame Chinese written system from the dark ages of culture revolution. bring back traditional Chinese characters.

What about "One country two systems" ala Hong Kong? Seems to be successful over there. Well it would be 3 system with Taiwan.

 

[Lizardman]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
As it stands right now, it is impossible to invade Taiwan, China simply does not have the ability to move enough troops onto the island across the 100 miles of open water and the Taiwan beaches are death traps, China's numbers mean nothing. I don't know how the war in the air would go but China would have to pull a lot of stuff from other areas it would rather not. If they opt for a naval blockade, what happens if American ships ignore the blockage? Are they willing to open fire and risk a war or at least increased US support of Taiwan. The missiles will have a limited impact more for shock value and once fired there will only be a small trickle of them afterwards.

On Taiwan's side i hear they are not upgrading their military very much to counter China, so I don't think they are all that interested in being declared a separate country from China just yet.

So I think China is going for a more passive way to take control on Taiwan, even if it takes 50 to 100 years. If i'm wrong on any of these points feel free to correct me.

Not quite so impossible. See what they are practicing for?

 

[StageLeft]

Obviously taiwan needs to be bombed until it appreciates its freedom.

 

[maddogchen]

Just came back from Taiwan. Man so annoying, they like put up election flags every 5 feet in Taiwan. What a waste of crap. And the television coverage was so damn annoying. "Oh I'm gonna commit suicide if ___ doesn't win" Damn drama queens. And everywhere we drove we seem to get stuck behind a Ma propaganda parade of cars that blocked traffic along the busy streets.

I heard Ma was being investigated for corruption charges, I wonder how him being elected will affect the investigation.

When I flew back to Taiwan I noticed a lot of old gheezers. I bet they were all flown in by the KMT to vote for Ma. Damn thats nice, a cheap vacation package to Taiwan every four years where you are wined and dined by the KMT party and get sent around in cars waving flags for the KMT just for voting their way. How do I sign up? I remember my mom telling me how the KMT came by their neighborhood when she was young to collect ballots. These groups of people would collect the ballots from the neighbors for "gifts" and fill them out themselves. Must be nice with such a small population to just buy the votes instead of wasting money campaigning.

Well it will be interesting to see what happens in Taiwan the next four years. The KMT seemed to block every move the DPP made and stalled progress for quite a while. They even blocked the purchases of major military hardware from the US for their own selfish reasons. Maybe we will finally acquire the things the military desperately needs now. Whatever happened to the submarines we wanted?

 

[sunzt]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
...
I heard Ma was being investigated for corruption charges, I wonder how him being elected will affect the investigation.
...

I'm pretty sure he's been cleared of all charges. He resigned the KMT positions in order to focus on the charges. He ran for the elections once he was cleared.

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Just came back from Taiwan. Man so annoying, they like put up election flags every 5 feet in Taiwan. What a waste of crap. And the television coverage was so damn annoying. "Oh I'm gonna commit suicide if ___ doesn't win" Damn drama queens. And everywhere we drove we seem to get stuck behind a Ma propaganda parade of cars that blocked traffic along the busy streets.

I heard Ma was being investigated for corruption charges, I wonder how him being elected will affect the investigation.

When I flew back to Taiwan I noticed a lot of old gheezers. I bet they were all flown in by the KMT to vote for Ma. Damn thats nice, a cheap vacation package to Taiwan every four years where you are wined and dined by the KMT party and get sent around in cars waving flags for the KMT just for voting their way. How do I sign up? I remember my mom telling me how the KMT came by their neighborhood when she was young to collect ballots. These groups of people would collect the ballots from the neighbors for "gifts" and fill them out themselves. Must be nice with such a small population to just buy the votes instead of wasting money campaigning.

Well it will be interesting to see what happens in Taiwan the next four years. The KMT seemed to block every move the DPP made and stalled progress for quite a while. They even blocked the purchases of major military hardware from the US for their own selfish reasons. Maybe we will finally acquire the things the military desperately needs now. Whatever happened to the submarines we wanted?

Criticism a bit ironic coming from, *ahem* a person who "just came back from Taiwan." :laugh: As far as I know, both the KMT and DPP expected about 200,000 voters from overseas to cast their ballots. Thus it probably didn't affect the outcome much if at all. Plus, the margin of victory was something like 2 million. If you're tired of the propaganda, just head south to the DPP stronghold in Kaohsiung, where Hsieh was mayor. But then again, even that southern city voted something like 51/49 in favor of Ma.

Ma was cleared of all charges prior to the election. And you'd have to be crazy if you think one party or another DOESN'T buy votes. Such is the state of Taiwan politics.

And things are looking rosy so far. stocks soared after election results. Not to mention the week prior to the election, when expectations of Ma's victory shot stocks to a 5-month high. I agree with your assessment that it will be interesting to see what happens from here.

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Just came back from Taiwan. Man so annoying, they like put up election flags every 5 feet in Taiwan. What a waste of crap. And the television coverage was so damn annoying. "Oh I'm gonna commit suicide if ___ doesn't win" Damn drama queens. And everywhere we drove we seem to get stuck behind a Ma propaganda parade of cars that blocked traffic along the busy streets.

I heard Ma was being investigated for corruption charges, I wonder how him being elected will affect the investigation.

When I flew back to Taiwan I noticed a lot of old gheezers. I bet they were all flown in by the KMT to vote for Ma. Damn thats nice, a cheap vacation package to Taiwan every four years where you are wined and dined by the KMT party and get sent around in cars waving flags for the KMT just for voting their way. How do I sign up? I remember my mom telling me how the KMT came by their neighborhood when she was young to collect ballots. These groups of people would collect the ballots from the neighbors for "gifts" and fill them out themselves. Must be nice with such a small population to just buy the votes instead of wasting money campaigning.

Well it will be interesting to see what happens in Taiwan the next four years. The KMT seemed to block every move the DPP made and stalled progress for quite a while. They even blocked the purchases of major military hardware from the US for their own selfish reasons. Maybe we will finally acquire the things the military desperately needs now. Whatever happened to the submarines we wanted?

Criticism a bit ironic coming from, *ahem* a person who "just came back from Taiwan." :laugh: As far as I know, both the KMT and DPP expected about 200,000 voters from overseas to cast their ballots. Thus it probably didn't affect the outcome much if at all. Plus, the margin of victory was something like 2 million. If you're tired of the propaganda, just head south to the DPP stronghold in Kaohsiung, where Hsieh was mayor. But then again, even that southern city voted something like 51/49 in favor of Ma.

Ma was cleared of all charges prior to the election. And you'd have to be crazy if you think one party or another DOESN'T buy votes. Such is the state of Taiwan politics.

And things are looking rosy so far. stocks soared after election results. Not to mention the week prior to the election, when expectations of Ma's victory shot stocks to a 5-month high.

i actually went back for a funeral, so I missed election day. That was interesting booking a flight. what about this day? full, this day? full, whats going on? election. okay, what about the day before the election? oh plenty of spots open.

Didn't get a chance to go to Kaoshiung to see the sights, had to hang around near my family. They sorta look down on you if you go have fun after a funeral. Darnit.

Thats so shady though, buying votes. All that mudslinging and false accusations too. It was an intense atmosphere. I'm sorta glad we don't have that here.

I heard they had a big party after I left. Guess I missed out on that.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Lizardman

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
As it stands right now, it is impossible to invade Taiwan, China simply does not have the ability to move enough troops onto the island across the 100 miles of open water and the Taiwan beaches are death traps, China's numbers mean nothing. I don't know how the war in the air would go but China would have to pull a lot of stuff from other areas it would rather not. If they opt for a naval blockade, what happens if American ships ignore the blockage? Are they willing to open fire and risk a war or at least increased US support of Taiwan. The missiles will have a limited impact more for shock value and once fired there will only be a small trickle of them afterwards.

On Taiwan's side i hear they are not upgrading their military very much to counter China, so I don't think they are all that interested in being declared a separate country from China just yet.

So I think China is going for a more passive way to take control on Taiwan, even if it takes 50 to 100 years. If i'm wrong on any of these points feel free to correct me.

Not quite so impossible. See what they are practicing for?

Wow could you make a bigger example of a straw man argument. Name one country with a sizable navy and army that doesn't practice beach landings or other military maneuvers? Do you realize that the US still has nukes aimed at the former Soviet Union...aka Russia? Does that mean we are still in a "Cold War" and are readying for war?

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: sunzt

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: dahunan
I read other pieces that said they want stronger economic ties to China and wanted more connection to China in other ways.. This guy was probably a Chinese plant

Laugh...the guy is a Harvard graduate and was the mayor of the biggest city in Taiwan. He knows more about Taiwan and how to use diplomacy to protect Taiwan then some Internet armchair general who have no idea what the heck he is talking about.

Why do you assume he is for Taiwanese when all he talks about are great economic ties to China.. It will be a two way street.. More Chinese firms setting up shop in Taiwan .. more influence from the wonderfully peaceful and liberty loving Chinese Government

Sad that you so quickly talk trash about the DPP who wanted to strengthen Taiwan .. not weaken her with Chinese influence

The DPP did anything, but strengthen Taiwan. The DPP made Taiwan miss the economic boom in China during the last 8 years, and have sank their economy. Strengthening is not about dividing people and causing threats of violence, hostility, and war from the Chinese all for the sole purpose of staying in power and furthering their agenda.

The DPP lost because they never gave reasons that people should vote for them, they only gave reasons that they shouldn't vote for KMT.

Could it be that Taiwanese want peace and economic prosperity and maintain the status quo, rather than further isolation from the mainland, hostility, conflict, and FREEEEEEEEDDDDUUUUMMMMMMM!!!!!??? Naww, that doesn't make sense to you I'm sure.

Sounds like the democrat playbook in '04.

 

[MadRat]

sunzt, you are so funny at time because in your world everything is so very simple and all figured out. Now you are trying to give English lessons, but don't yet grasp the English language and its pluralistic nature. There is no need to say "native" in front of the word Taiwanese. It is a word with multiple meanings, therefore you wrote into the definition of the word that you best saw fit. It is not my fault you chose to limit the scope of my statement to a single definition.

 

[prontospyder]

Originally posted by: sunzt

Originally posted by: Pepsei
i will always be for pro Independence.... however.. i can be easily persuaded if say china remove 'the party' and let people be the leaders, oh yeah get rid of those lame Chinese written system from the dark ages of culture revolution. bring back traditional Chinese characters.

What about "One country two systems" ala Hong Kong? Seems to be successful over there. Well it would be 3 system with Taiwan.

ummm...no thanks. I prefer the status quo until the Communists are out of power.