TACT: Advice

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
First, I realize that people on here will be angry with me. If you want to post hate, go for it. My intent is just to get advice. I will make the effort to sort through the anger for informative responses and will not be antagonistic in the slightest. I understand that I made a very foolish decision. I will not blame it on the stress that Virginia Roads place on drivers, or more specifically, that aggressive drivers place on other drivers. To avoid this stress, you begin driving differently; driving perhaps not as fast, but quite aggressively to make up for the mistakes of other drivers. However, I feel that it is a direct result. In the past, instead of dealing with this stress, I attempted it to circumvent it, and the end result is what you read here.

About 2 months ago, I received a reckless driving charge for driving 54 in a 35. It was inexcusable, and I pleased no contest. The road is frequented by many speeders, and I was driving normally as if they were there. This was a grievous abuse of my driving privileges, and like I said, I pleaded no contest to the charges.

When I appeared in court, I apologized for my actions after pleading guilty, and the judge gave me permission to take a driver improvement course in lieu of keeping the charges I have turned in my Certificate, and this Monday, May 24th, she said that she would dismiss the case.

Last night, I had a hectic class from 6pm-~10pm, and I was on my way home. I was definitely driving at a ?safe speed.? I was traveling at 51mph in a 45mph zone as was traffic. Of course there were those that were speeding, but because of my previous ticket, I was calmer, and never followed.

I was traveling in the right lane of a two lane road next to a white mid 90s Toyota Camry who was in the left lane. My hood was at about their car door, a green car in front of me sort of pulled away. For perhaps a mile or more, the gap between the green car in front of me and distance that it was from the Toyota in the other lane changed slowly, and I was essentially "boxed in.". Finally, as I saw a gap large enough to turn into, I put on my turn signal, proceeded to accelerate so my car would be in position to slide into the left lane. And as I was then traveling at the same speed as the other two cars, I made the quick lane change, and once I was in their lane I accelerated. After traveling about 100ft or so in the left lane, I was checking my rear view mirror, and noticed that the Toyota Camry had lost control, and after hitting the center grass median, it headed for the side of the road and I saw the front tires jump onto the curb. I was still driving, so I had to look ahead, and did not witness the rest. I found a turn lane, turned into it and stopped my vehicle. I then rushed to see what had happened.
Some witnesses who had stopped and one that almost got hit told me that I had ?cut them off? I finally got to the occupants, and they were already out walking around. I asked them if they were alright.

There are more details that I would rather not say as they only serve to reinforce my credibility concerning the truthfulness of this, and serve no other informational use.

All parties, including myself were extremely polite during the entire incident. The police showed up and I was politely to get my registration. I left for my car, and apparently left everyone speaking to the officer. I had forgotten to get my insurance info, so I had to go back to the car, giving everyone else further time with the police officer. When I got back, the PO took my info, and notified me that based on what she had heard, and even in light of the fact that there had been no contact between vehicles, I was going to be cited for ?reckless driving.?

Unfortunately, I can barely afford to pay even the damages to their car as parts such as the rims and an axle were broken, much less a lawyer ($750)

As for what I will say in court, I have thought about it from a variety of avenues. I thought about pleading guilty. I thought about contesting it. I am requesting advice.


1. The first thing I will do is apologize. I am very sorry for my actions regardless of what the judge says and decrees. My actions almost cost people their lives, and I will never forget it, and have no choice but to stay calm, stay legal or not drive at all.
2. Although my actions were quick, I felt that they were precise, and I did not feel that I was putting anyone in danger. I am not attempting to be inconsiderate or save my own ass by saying this. At no time did I feel that I was putting anyone in danger. That is the truth, however incorrect it may be viewed from other?s eyes.
3. The fact that the car was just starting to spin out after I was quite a distance away suggests that perhaps I startled the drivers, or that they were not paying a great deal of attention to the road. I am by no means attempting to pass blame. I am merely attempting to explain why they spun out after I had already passed.


I live in No. VA.

Comments are appreciated.
 

amcdonald

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2003
4,012
0
0
Sounds like the moron overreacted to you changing lanes and ran the car off the road. I would contest it, but if they have witnesses I don't know how you'll end up.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Get a lawyer. If you were ticketed that can be used as evidence if they decide to sue you. Raw deal.
 

hjo3

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
7,354
4
0
Sounds like you're a danger to other people on the road. It's probably best that your license be revoked.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
The only thing that it sounds to me bad that you did and should not have was the original ticket (and 54 in a 35 is something that can often be done safely depending on where it is), and that you got in front of somebody who couldn't drive. They reacted badly unless you were literally going to hit them and they had to swerve to avoid contact. I would be surprised if that was the case.

Tough break and good luck.
 

TechnoKid

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2001
5,575
0
0
lawyer for sure on this one. gettin two wreckless charges in a row doesn't look to good on your record; even if they don't make it onto your record, they can still come back to haunt you.
 

dquan97

Lifer
Jul 9, 2002
12,010
3
0
was an asian woman driving the other car? ;)

jk...hope you get a lawyer to defend the accusation
 

Bryophyte

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
13,430
13
81
I would guess that the original reckless driving charge dismissal might be contingent on not having any more related charges within a certain amount of time. It's possible that the first charge won't get dismissed next week.
 

PoPPeR

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2002
6,993
0
0
yeah, even if you were right, witnesses + prior record probably = upcoming nightmare for you. Good luck, and get a lawyer
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Your first speeding charge was a bit high, but 51 in a 45 is NOTHING. I wasn't there, so I can't say how close you pulled out in front of the other car, but as a Seattle driver and someone who has driven in New York I can say that a good driver WON'T lose control and run off the road, even if a crazy NY cab driver cuts them off by inches going twice their speed <--not an exaggeration

Sounds to me like the person behind you couldn't drive. Cutting people off it rude and dangerous, but them running off the road (sounds) like their stupid fault.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
I don't get it. You didn't hit the other car right? And they were occupying the passing lane without passing and they lost control of their own vehicle when they forced you to pass on the right? Are drivers in Virginia allowed to hog the left lane without passing? That's a ticket and a fine here. Are they not required to maintain control of their vehicles at all times? Losing control of your vehicle for any reason is a ticket for "Careless Driving" and a $500 fine here.

Call a lawyer. And don't you have insurance?

IMO, and based on the story that you told as I read it, the only way that your actions may have endangered other lives is that they weren't competent enough as a driver to deserve their license to drive in the first place. If you're such a bad driver that someone cutting in front of you but accelerating causes you to lose control of your vehicle, then you are the danger on the road.
 

PoPPeR

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2002
6,993
0
0
yeah what vic said, but then again it sounds like the witnesses are telling some BS stories to the cops which resulted in them thinking it was your fault. Good luck
 

thomsbrain

Lifer
Dec 4, 2001
18,148
1
0
judging by your story, it sounds to me like you cut that guy off. no where do you mention checking your mirrors to see if you'd actually passed the camry, or looking behind you before you passed, both of which you are supposed to do, especially in a situation like that. assuming you had actually passed him when you changed lanes, he probably crashed because he paniced when he saw a car suddenly right in front of him, but even so you caused it. and if you hadn't passed him, it's not that surprising that he spun, since the natural reaction to avoid an accident would be to swerve away and stomp the brakes. either way a better driver wouldn't have crashed, but you put them in that situation because you were inpatient and careless. the proper thing to do would be pull behind the camry, flash your hibeams to indicate they need to get the fvck out of the way, and then pass when they move. now you know.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: Vic
I don't get it. You didn't hit the other car right? And they were occupying the passing lane without passing and they lost control of their own vehicle when they forced you to pass on the right? Are drivers in Virginia allowed to hog the left lane without passing? That's a ticket and a fine here. Are they not required to maintain control of their vehicles at all times? Losing control of your vehicle for any reason is a ticket for "Careless Driving" and a $500 fine here.

Call a lawyer. And don't you have insurance?

IMO, and based on the story that you told as I read it, the only way that your actions may have endangered other lives is that they weren't competent enough as a driver to deserve their license to drive in the first place. If you're such a bad driver that someone cutting in front of you but accelerating causes you to lose control of your vehicle, then you are the danger on the road.
I agree.
it sounds to me like you cut that guy off. no where do you mention checking your mirrors to see if you'd actually passed the camry, or looking behind you before you passed, both of which you are supposed to do, especially in a situation like that.
It goes without saying that he checked if he had enough room. He's not going to distil every single thing about the act down. The post would be too long!
he probably crashed because he paniced when he saw a car suddenly right in front of him, but even so you caused it. and if you hadn't passed him, it's not that surprising that he spun, since the natural reaction to avoid an accident would be to swerve away and stomp the brakes. either way a better driver wouldn't have crashed, but you put them in that situation because you were inpatient and careless. the proper thing to do would be pull behind the camry, flash your hibeams to indicate they need to get the fvck out of the way, and then pass when they move. now you know.
Well I disagree. If I'm going even at 75mph and somebody cuts in front of me with only a few feet room I will hit the brakes; not swerve. One action is competent and the other unnecessary. Based on goosemaster's post I think he's being honest about it and I feel bad that he had to get in front of somebody who probably should not be driving.
And the moral of the story:

NEVER STOP.
In this case that sounds like probably the best idea, but in another case he could have the cops knocking on his door for hit and run. I know that if I saw somebody involved in an accident and they sped away they better have a faster car than me, because I'm getting their plate.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Vic
I don't get it. You didn't hit the other car right? And they were occupying the passing lane without passing and they lost control of their own vehicle when they forced you to pass on the right? Are drivers in Virginia allowed to hog the left lane without passing? That's a ticket and a fine here. Are they not required to maintain control of their vehicles at all times? Losing control of your vehicle for any reason is a ticket for "Careless Driving" and a $500 fine here.

Call a lawyer. And don't you have insurance?

IMO, and based on the story that you told as I read it, the only way that your actions may have endangered other lives is that they weren't competent enough as a driver to deserve their license to drive in the first place. If you're such a bad driver that someone cutting in front of you but accelerating causes you to lose control of your vehicle, then you are the danger on the road.
I agree.
it sounds to me like you cut that guy off. no where do you mention checking your mirrors to see if you'd actually passed the camry, or looking behind you before you passed, both of which you are supposed to do, especially in a situation like that.
It goes without saying that he checked if he had enough room. He's not going to distil every single thing about the act down. The post would be too long!
he probably crashed because he paniced when he saw a car suddenly right in front of him, but even so you caused it. and if you hadn't passed him, it's not that surprising that he spun, since the natural reaction to avoid an accident would be to swerve away and stomp the brakes. either way a better driver wouldn't have crashed, but you put them in that situation because you were inpatient and careless. the proper thing to do would be pull behind the camry, flash your hibeams to indicate they need to get the fvck out of the way, and then pass when they move. now you know.
Well I disagree. If I'm going even at 75mph and somebody cuts in front of me with only a few feet room I will hit the brakes; not swerve. One action is competent and the other unnecessary. Based on goosemaster's post I think he's being honest about it and I feel bad that he had to get in front of somebody who probably should not be driving.
And the moral of the story:

NEVER STOP.
In this case that sounds like probably the best idea, but in another case he could have the cops knocking on his door for hit and run. I know that if I saw somebody involved in an accident and they sped away they better have a faster car than me, because I'm getting their plate.

Yes. I stopped because

A) it is the law
B) I would not have it any other way. I had a personal duty to stop and help, regardless of wheter or not it was my fault. I am jsut that old fashioned in that respect. Even the officer commented on my kindness, as if it was unexpected.



As for checking, not only did I check my mirrors, but I also turned my head although not all the way such as when entering a yeilding entrance to a highway.THe reason I state that I checked my side mirrors afrter about 2-3 seconds is because that is what happend: I changed lanes while keeping a close eye on both cars, their brake lights and the road ahead. I checked as I made the lane change, and then 2 seconds after..I alwyas shceck both mirros about every 3 seconds......habit.


I too find their actions quite contrary to what a driver should do in the situation. A simple amount of braking would have done the trick, assuming that I was going to hit them. If I was going to hit them,, why di they take so long to veer off of the road? Honeslly, I realize I need a lwyer. I have just been informed that there are some cheap resources at my disposal such as az court-apointed alwyer and law couseling for cheap.


Basically, I am very sorry for I did because of the end result. Driving on that road, unfortunately, requires a great deal of experience. People cut you off, they serve into you, they speed, and they say or make obscenities often.
As a defense driver, I pride myself on knowing as much about a sitution as I can. YOu better beilve if someone slams on their brakes ahead of me, I will have already checked to see if I should dart into the other lane or brake. This is nothing special. QUite a few drivers on that Road are like this.
Unfortunately, road conditions change, and I failed to "calm down."

Even today, as I was driving to class, people were tailgatting and everything:( It is quite stressful, and I endure it all the time:( Bascially, in this istuaition, I was boxed in. I wanted to "exit the box" and go on ahead where there was no traffic. Unfortunately it ended up differently than I expected.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Originally posted by: notfred
And the moral of the story:

NEVER STOP.

BTW, the time when I got runo off of 66 by some fool who made a two-lange change WITHOUT LOOKING AND WITHOUT A BLINKER, she kept on going and got off scott free while I was left spinning out.

I was pretty sure it was not my fault as I stopped and exited my car, and continued on to help for the sake of helping someone in need of help. I was worried that someone got hurt. That's it. Perhaps it is lame, and I am lame for letting myself get caught, and so be it.


I will be quite sad if empathy[sic] is my downfall, but I shall never regret it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Driver inattention kills more people than drunk driving.

And what you've described, Goose, is just another day on the roads. Love it or take the bus, because it's not something that can be legislated/regulated away. Some people want to blame the aggressive drivers, but I call BS on them. The fault lies with the rude, the incourteous, the incompetent, and (worst of all) the oblivious. The jerk on his cellphone driving under the speed limit in the left lane who won't yield to the right.
You're in a 3,000 to 6,000 lb. guided missile doing 100 feet per second. Kindly pay attention before you kill me.
Is it any wonder that people get upset?

Anyway, Goose, I still don't see where you're at fault. And I find your defeatist attitude in the face of an obvious frame-up quite disconcerting. Unless there's something more to this story...
 

Legendary

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2002
7,019
1
0
I think you should contest it, despite your lack of witnesses. You didn't make contact with the car, your lane change seems to fit all rules of lane-changing - it just seems like they're trying to screw you for their screwup.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
No contact => no accident.

At least that was how it worked when I was run off the road into a telephone pole. The guy was nice enough to stop. He got a careless driving cite. It took a LOT of bitching to get his insurance company to even pay HALF. Believe it or not, they claimed that *I* was 50% responsible for swerving off the road to aovid a multi-vehicle accident when someone was about to T-bone me. Had I simply stayed where I was and allowed him to hit me, it would have been a slam-dunk that he ran his stop sign and made an illegal turn.

Lesson learned: You're better off allowing a multi-vehicle accident than crashing your own car to avoid it. Next time, I'll let the jackass hit me and take him to cleaner.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Driver inattention kills more people than drunk driving.

And what you've described, Goose, is just another day on the roads. Love it or take the bus, because it's not something that can be legislated/regulated away. Some people want to blame the aggressive drivers, but I call BS on them. The fault lies with the rude, the incourteous, the incompetent, and (worst of all) the oblivious. The jerk on his cellphone driving under the speed limit in the left lane who won't yield to the right.
You're in a 3,000 to 6,000 lb. guided missile doing 100 feet per second. Kindly pay attention before you kill me.
Is it any wonder that people get upset?

Anyway, Goose, I still don't see where you're at fault. And I find your defeatist attitude in the face of an obvious frame-up quite disconcerting. Unless there's something more to this story...

I will see about building a defense. My "defeastest " attitude is out of sympathy for the occupants of the toyota. I realize I must buckle down and start building my defense.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Originally posted by: Legendary
I think you should contest it, despite your lack of witnesses. You didn't make contact with the car, your lane change seems to fit all rules of lane-changing - it just seems like they're trying to screw you for their screwup.

Interesting. I guess I have just been over sympathetic. I in no time thought i was putting ANYONE in danger. I admit that I have made mistakes while driving as has everyone else, but now that I have had time to calm down, I realize that this was not one of them.
 

TheAudit

Diamond Member
May 2, 2003
4,194
0
0
To me, from what you have said, it doesn?t seem like you did anything outrageous or even wrong frankly.
Get an attorney.
Good luck, buddy.