Tablets racing to the bottom, phones the opposite

[thecapsaicinkid]

I can't say I'm particularly keen on my Nexus 4 not only performing, but looking better than my Nexus 7. Tablets seem to be on a race to the bottom whereas phones are on a mission to stuff the most pixels and mhz into devices as possible. This is weird to me.

 

[Red Storm]

They're quite similar actually.

Google launched the Nexus 7 with good specs at a price much lower than the typical competition.

Google launched the Nexus 4 with good specs at a price much lower than the typical competition.

 

[MD90]

Considering the Nexus 4 came out 4 months after the Nexus 7 and costs $150 more, that's not really surprising.

 

[gorcorps]

Install a different rom on the nexus 7. I thought mine performed pretty poorly too until I changed roms.

 

[thecapsaicinkid]

They're quite similar actually.

Google launched the Nexus 7 with good specs at a price much lower than the typical competition.

Google launched the Nexus 4 with good specs at a price much lower than the typical competition.

Don't agree. The Nexus 4 doesn't have 'good' specs, it's as good as it comes in terms of hardware. You can't say the same for the 7, even accounting for the 4 months difference. It's clearly aimed at a different market.

 

[Red Storm]

Don't agree. The Nexus 4 doesn't have 'good' specs, it's as good as it comes in terms of hardware. You can't say the same for the 7, even accounting for the 4 months difference. It's clearly aimed at a different market.

Uh no. It has good specs, but it's quite pedestrian in areas such as battery, storage, and screen.

Smart phones, like computers, are more than just GHz and RAM.

 

[IamDavid]

I totally agree! I was talking about this same thing the other day with coworkers. All Android tablet manufacturers look to be cutting rather than innovating, Apple is even rumored to do the same, already have if you look at the mini. Windows tablets sure didn't push the envelope on release.

Only hope I've seen lately is the upcoming Lenovo Helix windows tablets. Killer specs but I'll have to see it to believe it.

 

[BrightCandle]

I think its just that with phones the faster more expensive hardware is still necessary to get a decent experience and play all the latest games. On a tablet however with less constraints you don't need to cram it in as much, its a bit cheaper to hit a similar level of performance. Phones will go that way too just as soon as they work out how to make the SOC cheap enough.

The Nexus 4 is just cheap for what it is, its the fastest Android phone and its a bargain. But there isn't a massive market for the really cheap chinese phones on android, you rarely see people with the lowest end. Which is odd compared to what you see on PCs today where you'll find your mum using a £350 netbook.

 

[dguy6789]

Don't agree. The Nexus 4 doesn't have 'good' specs, it's as good as it comes in terms of hardware. You can't say the same for the 7, even accounting for the 4 months difference. It's clearly aimed at a different market.

I disagree. The Nexus 4 has poor battery life, poor storage capacity, it is lacking LTE support, and you can't say its processor is a Snapdragon S4 pro without affixing an asterisk to it because it is very quick to throttle and it cuts performance so much that it makes it perform nowhere near other Snapdragon S4 Pro devices that never throttle and much closer to S4 dual core devices.

 

[lopri]

Carrier subsidy is a big deal, giving customers false sense of low prices. People need a plan for a phone, so they choose convenience and familiarity. I used to do the same until very recently. When you see a shiny, brand-new phone selling for cheap with a contract, it seems like a no brainer to go for it when you need a plan anyway. It is an ignorance, but a rather rational one.

In contrast, tablets are not such a necessity thus consumers pay more attention to prices and value. Plus, you can't ignore the impact of Kindle Fire and Nexus 7, which were sold for very low prices due to Amazon and Google pushing the platform to keep their respective ecosystems competitive. Any new tablet should be able to be viewed favorably to iPad at the high end, and Kindle Fire / Nexus 7 at the mid-to-low end, in order to be successful.

I don't think there is an unusual racing to the bottom in the tablet market. If anything, I hope the bubbles in the phone market to bust. (a long shot, but not impossible)

 

[Yuriman]

I disagree. The Nexus 4 has poor battery life, poor storage capacity, it is lacking LTE support, and you can't say its processor is a Snapdragon S4 pro without affixing an asterisk to it because it is very quick to throttle and it cuts performance so much that it makes it perform nowhere near other Snapdragon S4 Pro devices that never throttle and much closer to S4 dual core devices.

I agree to an extent. I suspect LG did cut some corners in build quality but honestly, which other phones have quad Krait? It doesn't have poor battery life due to too small a battery as it's the same size as the S3's, I generally assumed Krait itself is just at the edge of the power envelope you can have in a phone and is more than part responsible for both issues, and Google seems to be keeping uSD cards out of Nexus devices very intentionally.

I'd like to see what the Nexus 4 can do with a ROM and kernel from XDA, as just replacing the stock kernel on my S2 is the difference between 1 and 3 days of battery life.

Carrier subsidy is a big deal,

Those are my thoughts. The iPhone5 probably wouldn't have a $900 option if it weren't for carrier subsidy.

 

[zerocool84]

I agree to an extent. I suspect LG did cut some corners in build quality but honestly, which other phones have quad Krait? It doesn't have poor battery life due to too small a battery as it's the same size as the S3's, I generally assumed Krait itself is just at the edge of the power envelope you can have in a phone and is more than part responsible for both issues, and Google seems to be keeping uSD cards out of Nexus devices very intentionally.

I'd like to see what the Nexus 4 can do with a ROM and kernel from XDA, as just replacing the stock kernel on my S2 is the difference between 1 and 3 days of battery life.



Those are my thoughts. The iPhone5 probably wouldn't have a $900 option if it weren't for carrier subsidy.

It's the software, Krait on the Droid DNA or Optimus G isn't bad like it is on the N4 so I'd definitely think a ROM or a software update would help the N4.

 

[Deeko]

If more people bought tablets with wireless service and subsidies, we would see a lot more high end tablets. Plus, a phone is more of a necessity, whereas a tablet is a nice to have extra device, so it makes sense that people would focus more on the quality of their smartphone,

 

[thecapsaicinkid]

Uh no. It has good specs, but it's quite pedestrian in areas such as battery, storage, and screen.

Smart phones, like computers, are more than just GHz and RAM.

Disagree completely.

Battery is inline with other high end phones the same size, low storage is a deliberate design decision of the Nexus line and the screen is up there with the best 4.7".

I have both a N4 and N7 and I can assure you, the 4 is way ahead of the 7. I imagine tablets consume way more paid content so getting them into as many hands as possible is probably desirable.

 

[Midwayman]

I don't know that its a race to the bottom on tablets, but they're finally getting down to the price point where they can justify their utility as a 2nd or 3rd computing device. Specs will probably continue to improve without a ton of movement on price point. Phones are a different market, especialy in the US. They are a primary device so people will pay more straight up for one. In the US subsidies hide most of the cost. In a subsidy free market I bet you'd see a lot more mid range phone becoming more popular.

 

[Ravynmagi]

I've been kinda wondering what the future holds for Android tablets.

Google, Amazon, and B&N have released these cheap $200 7 inch tablets that are pretty good pieces of hardware. And priced so cheaply because they want to make the money off their content instead. It's hard for hardware manufactures like Samsung and Toshiba to compete with that. Lenovo and Acer have sub $200 tablets, but they are just total garbage in comparison and it makes no sense to not spend the few extra bucks. And then there are some higher end 7.7 inch tablets from Toshiba and Samsung, but their $450 price tag is painful.

I'm surprised I'm not seeing more 9 or 10 inch Android tablets. But it seems right now the manufactures are focusing on Windows 8 tablets instead. A lot of them seem to be coming soon. Looks like good 10.1 inch Atom based Windows 8 tablets will be available for just $500.

So are regular Android tablets going to get squeezed out of the low end market by the $200 subsidized tablets and squeezed out of the high end market by the $500 Windows 8 Atom tablets? I worry that if you aren't Google (their Nexus partner), Amazon, or B&N, then it might be pointless to make an Android tablet.

 

[dagamer34]

I've been kinda wondering what the future holds for Android tablets.

Google, Amazon, and B&N have released these cheap $200 7 inch tablets that are pretty good pieces of hardware. And priced so cheaply because they want to make the money off their content instead. It's hard for hardware manufactures like Samsung and Toshiba to compete with that. Lenovo and Acer have sub $200 tablets, but they are just total garbage in comparison and it makes no sense to not spend the few extra bucks. And then there are some higher end 7.7 inch tablets from Toshiba and Samsung, but their $450 price tag is painful.

I'm surprised I'm not seeing more 9 or 10 inch Android tablets. But it seems right now the manufactures are focusing on Windows 8 tablets instead. A lot of them seem to be coming soon. Looks like good 10.1 inch Atom based Windows 8 tablets will be available for just $500.

So are regular Android tablets going to get squeezed out of the low end market by the $200 subsidized tablets and squeezed out of the high end market by the $500 Windows 8 Atom tablets? I worry that if you aren't Google (their Nexus partner), Amazon, or B&N, then it might be pointless to make an Android tablet.

Serious question: was the 9.7" iPad successful because it was an iPad (with all of it's apps and games) or because it was from Apple? I have yet to see a 10" non-iPad tablet be successful, yet the Kindle Fire, Kindle Fire HD, Nexus 7, Galaxy Tab, Nook Color, Nook Tablet, and Nook Tablet HD have all been far more successful. And I think it's soon becoming obvious that the 7" tablet form factor is the "ideal" size for a tablet.

I'd like to see a 7" tablet with a 1920x1200 screen for $350 and see how it sells.

 

[Roland00Address]

I'd like to see a 7" tablet with a 1920x1200 screen for $350 and see how it sells.

Not quite the same thing but

Barnes and Noble has a 9" 1920x1280 tablet called the Nook HD+ (1920x1080 means it is a 1.5 ratio instead of 1.6 for 1920x1200). Price is $269
It has Dual Core Texas-Instruments OMAP 4470 @ 1.5GHz cpu and 1gb of ram.

Amazon has a 8.9" 1920x1200 tablet called the Amazon Fire HD. Price is $299 though it was on sale for 1 week during christmas for $249
It also has a Dual Core Texas-Instruments OMAP 4470 @ 1.5GHz and 1gb of ram

Yes I understand there is a big difference between a 9 inch and and a 7 inch, as well as screen ratios but we are almost there already. Give it a year and you will easily see a 7" with a 1920x1200 screen with my guess at least a dual core a15 for the $250 price range.

 

[lopri]

Also, 7" tablets fit comfortably in my pockets. OK, not that comfortable on jeans, but they still fit width-wise. I won't sit on it, though. XD

The point that I am raising here is portability.

 

[Ravynmagi]

Not quite the same thing but

Barnes and Noble has a 9" 1920x1280 tablet called the Nook HD+ (1920x1080 means it is a 1.5 ratio instead of 1.6 for 1920x1200). Price is $269
It has Dual Core Texas-Instruments OMAP 4470 @ 1.5GHz cpu and 1gb of ram.

Amazon has a 8.9" 1920x1200 tablet called the Amazon Fire HD. Price is $299 though it was on sale for 1 week during christmas for $249
It also has a Dual Core Texas-Instruments OMAP 4470 @ 1.5GHz and 1gb of ram

Yes I understand there is a big difference between a 9 inch and and a 7 inch, as well as screen ratios but we are almost there already. Give it a year and you will easily see a 7" with a 1920x1200 screen with my guess at least a dual core a15 for the $250 price range.

Amazon needs to figure out a way to trim down the weight and size of their tablets a bit though. I think the Kindle Fire HD is probably the heaviest 7 inch tablet I've used. It's not bad, but just about everything else is lighter. And when I used the 8.9, dang thing was about as heavy as some 10.1 inch tablets I'd used.

 

[lopri]

So are regular Android tablets going to get squeezed out of the low end market by the $200 subsidized tablets and squeezed out of the high end market by the $500 Windows 8 Atom tablets? I worry that if you aren't Google (their Nexus partner), Amazon, or B&N, then it might be pointless to make an Android tablet.

I am guessing that 6~8" tablet market will settle at $200~$300. As technology improves, there will be room for improvement and profit. (think of it like motherboard market in the last decade, in terms of prices) Not sure where Windows RT/Pro will be headed, though.

 

[Midwayman]

Serious question: was the 9.7" iPad successful because it was an iPad (with all of it's apps and games) or because it was from Apple? I have yet to see a 10" non-iPad tablet be successful, yet the Kindle Fire, Kindle Fire HD, Nexus 7, Galaxy Tab, Nook Color, Nook Tablet, and Nook Tablet HD have all been far more successful. And I think it's soon becoming obvious that the 7" tablet form factor is the "ideal" size for a tablet.

I'd like to see a 7" tablet with a 1920x1200 screen for $350 and see how it sells.

I doubt its the 7" size. Its the 7" price. A lot more people can afford a 7" tablet as a 2nd or 3rd computing device. If a 10" tablet was a trivial price difference I think you'd see a lot more of them sold. 10" Tablets are really getting down to sub $300 levels in just the last few months. Give it some time. For me a 7" tablet isn't substantially more useful than my phone.

 

[thecapsaicinkid]

For me a 7" tablet isn't substantially more useful than my phone.

That's crazy talk. A 7" tablet is exactly 17 times more usable than the average smartphone.

 

[Ravynmagi]

I doubt its the 7" size. Its the 7" price. A lot more people can afford a 7" tablet as a 2nd or 3rd computing device. If a 10" tablet was a trivial price difference I think you'd see a lot more of them sold. 10" Tablets are really getting down to sub $300 levels in just the last few months. Give it some time. For me a 7" tablet isn't substantially more useful than my phone.

I can fit three of my Nexus 4 screens in the area of a Nexus 7 screen. That's quite a bit bigger. Maybe if you are a Galaxy Note 2 owner, then maybe a 7 inch tablet might not seem worth it. Between surfing the web on my Nexus 4 and my Nexus 7 at home, it's no question I want to do it on the Nexus 7.

Maybe the issue isn't "more useful", because both can be useful for the same things, but the larger 7 inch screen I think is a great balance between being big enough to read comfortably and light enough to hold comfortably.

What tablets have gotten down to the "sub $300 levels" in the last few months that is actually worth buying and not made by Google (ASUS), Amazon, or B&N? There are older tablets and new tablets with absolute garbage specs at under $300. But I haven't see anything worth buying other than one of the content subsidized tablets from the big 3.

 

[Midwayman]

That's crazy talk. A 7" tablet is exactly 17 times more usable than the average smartphone.

Depends on your phone I guess. I have a Galaxy Note I, so its huge for a phone. Its more than enough to look up stuff, use the web, etc when I'm on the go. The main advantage aside from price of a 7" tablet is portability. That's a non-factor for me in casual on the go use. If I know I'm going to have a lot of free time too play with a tablet I bring the 10" for those few situations, and its also much better at home for sitting on the couch surfing. One of the reasons I wanted a 10" was that is can display an A4 PDF at a readable font size without scrolling. Everything is just a little cramped on a 7" once you take casual portability out of the mix. I could see making a case that a 7" is easier to hold for long form reading, but I also already have a e-ink device that is far better than a 7" tab for long form reading. (And my 10" does just fine for that too). I just see 7" as a compromise tablet. Too small for serious use and too big to really be pocketable.