T8 fluorescent tube + 5yr-old fixture = dying fixture with burned electronics???

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
Don't work for Philips. (that's one L for the lighting company hehe)

I do work with a lot of different lighting and switching technologies.

Oh we can talk about batteries too. Actually a battery is more than one power cell - yes a single AA/C/D etc. is actually not a battery but a cell.

And don't forget zinc-air, mercury (banned now) and the exotic sources such as radiophotovoltaic power sources (produce a weak but extremely stable EMF by converting the light from radionuclide decay - similar to those scintillating flashes on an old radium dial altimeter - to electricity via a high efficiency solar cell). RTG (radioactive-thermal-generators) use a much higher energy isotope that produces sufficient heat to excite one end of a thermocouple (see Seeback effect) to generate an EMF. Thermocouples used in RTG's in space vehicles are tweaked so their cold side is sunk to the coldest area of the craft (far from any sun, space is pretty cold!) and of course the other end is heated by the nuclear reaction. It works well and provides many years of steady power for craft such as the Cassini research project.

Note I did say "cell voltage." But if you ask for a "AA cell" at most stores, you'll get very confused stares.

I'm sorry I neglected to mention the other types.
RTG's shall also be used on the coming Mars Science Lab rovers. I think there's to be two of them anyway.

I resisted the urge to buy the $8 fixtures at Home Depot, and went with some $20 ones. They at least advertised not only Energy Star Compliance, but also a 2 year warranty, so at least the manufacturer is willing to say that about their own product. The $8 things didn't mention any kind of warranty on the box. No way to determine, from the outside anyway, if the two models use different electronic ballasts though, or if the price difference is just due to the thicker steel used.

But the lights are working just fine, even after being subjected to the magnetic ballasts. The old fixtures have been stripped down. The metal reflectors shall go for scrap metal recycling, and I figure there might be close to a pound of copper in the ballasts and wiring.

 

[Rubycon]

If you have a source of high voltage at high frequency around you can light those tubes without wires.

UPS tester

:laugh:

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Well we tend to have an unfortunate policy in this house:
"How much does it cost?"

It's never "How well does it work?" That is secondary. If it's the absolute cheapest on the shelf, that's what gets bought. Nevermind that the thing is made out of such thin sheet metal that it's as flimsy as a sheet of cardboard. I am trying to change that policy though, in part because I'm sick of this attitude of "It's cheap, so if it breaks, we'll just throw it away and buy another one," as well as the problem of "This isn't working right, fix it." Which of course falls on me. So we buy cheap, and I get to fix the cheap sh!t that invariably fails early.

Fixture - the green shaded portion. Is that the "center piece" you speak of?

Inside there was a tiny circuitboard tied to the transformer things at either end of the fixture.

My household had that same policy for the first 3 or 4 years that I was married. It's hard to remember for certain, but I don't think I still own anything that I bought during those 3 or 4 years... everything I purchased has long ago broken or worn out. This includes cheap tools, furniture, etc. I've since learned that to be cheap, I have to spend much more money. Paying $50 the first time, and having it last virtually forever is a heck of a lot cheaper than paying $30 every 2 years.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
If you have a source of high voltage at high frequency around you can light those tubes without wires.

UPS tester

:laugh:

A 100KV Tesla Coil should do the trick, which I happen to have laying around.
High voltage is indeed fun.


Once I'm done with college (2009 at least), I hope to build a larger coil. I'm talking a secondary coil that's 6-9" in diameter.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

A 100KV Tesla Coil should do the trick, which I happen to have laying around.
High voltage is indeed fun.


Once I'm done with college (2009 at least), I hope to build a larger coil. I'm talking a secondary coil that's 6-9" in diameter.

A diode based voltage multiplier is all you need for most things. Unless you want really long sparks and have a large space outdoors or a room free of in-wall metal which can become a fire hazard. Larger coils with tens of kW input can put out sparks 30 feet long or more and their air blast rotary gaps often create a racket over 145 decibels in a frequency range that is very damaging to ears. The hissing from the sparks of the magnifier alone is rather deafening too.

 

[Jeff7]

Bonus Stupid Question:®

Alright, I've got a bunch of electronic ballasted fixtures now. They say that they will work with 40W T12 bulbs. Question: Do I need to look for anything specific on the T12 bulb box that indicates whether or not they will overheat, mutate and kill humans, or seek to take over the world? Or do I simply need to find a bulb that says "T12 40W"?

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Bonus stupid question:

Alright, I've got a bunch of electronic ballasted fixtures now. They say that they will work with 40W T12 bulbs. Question: Do I need to look for anything specific on the T12 bulb box that indicates whether or not they will overheat, mutate and kill humans, or seek to take over the world? Or do I simply need to find a bulb that says "T12 40W"?

You have talking ballasts? :laugh:

Sounds like they were designed for the classic F40CWT12. A good driver can work on a variety of lamps. I've seen ones that will push a 40W tube, 160W VHO tube and a 400W Metal Halide! They have a limit of 1kW but can sense what kind of lamp they're firing. Of course they are quite expensive drivers.

Advance and Magnetek are probably the most common drivers. Look for "high performance" or low THD on the label for best results especially if they're connected to a circuit shared with sensitive devices.

 

[Jeff7]

Well sure they talk. These are them newfangled digital-whatchamacallit things!

Though it is creepy the way they sigh and groan with slight ecstacy when the prongs are lovingly inserted into the sockets, and the power suddenly surges through the entire system, illuminating both parties with brilliant energy......
:Q


Anyway.

I have a feeling that these drivers just might possibly be incapable of driving 400W Metal Halide.

My dad's partially color blind, and not so picky about the kind of fluorescent lights he uses, so he'll probably just use the cheap tubes, which will probably mean T12's for awhile, including the leftovers we have now from replacing the magnetic ballast fixtures. (Though some tubes will just go into the garage light fixtures.) So he'll likely be perfectly happy with a tube with a low color rendering index and funky color temperature.

 

[Rubycon]

Look for Philips colortone 50 or 75 lamps. The 75 has the highest certified CRI (95!) and colors look so good under those lamps. Problem is they seriously lack efficiacy at around 1725 initial lumens which is horrible for a 40W lamp.

The most efficient FL lamp is wacky green and indeed it will drive one wacky. :laugh:

EDIT: Lite White has the worst CRI of 49. Colors look crazy under those lights. Not as bad as HPS and (shudder) LPS with a CRI of a big fat goose egg.

 

[Jeff7]

:shocked:
1725 lumens for 40W??? Ouch. And I thought 2300 lumens for the 40W Daylight Deluxe Philips lamps was bad. These 2800 lumen 32W T8 tubes I bought for my computer room seem to be doing just fine, and I do like the color temperature of them - 6500k. The room just looks nicer and the light feels more, relaxing maybe?

 

[BoomerD]

Another great 40 watt T-12 bulb (IF you can find them in your area, are the Vita-Lights. One of the BEST daylight spectrum fluorescent tube ever made.
http://www.duro-test.com/fluor.vitalite.html

You should be able to get "daylight fluorescent" tubes at Home Depot, Lowes, or any good lighting store.
Things to consider.
warm white = pinkish color
cool white = bluish color
daylight = greenish to yellowish color. CONSIDERED to be white, but each eye is different..(true daylight is somewhere around 5000-6500 kelvin. (depends on who's doing the testing...)

 

[Jeff7]

More weirdness. Good weirdness though.


I replaced another old magnetic ballast fixture with an electronic fixture. Kill-A-Watt results:

2 x 40W tubes with a magnetic ballast: 59 watts
2 x 40W tubes with an electronic ballast: 50 watts
2 x 32W tubes with an electronic ballast: 53 watts



32W tubes apparently use more power than the 40W's?

 

[Rubycon]

Sounds like the driver is over driving the 32W tubes.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
Sounds like the driver is over driving the 32W tubes.

2 x 32 = 64

Total power consumption = 53W

Sounds more like under driving.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

2 x 32 = 64

Total power consumption = 53W

Sounds more like under driving.

I say over driving as the 40 watters were the same. Remember the kill-a-watt is a relative device. It's not a certifiable instrument thus its readings should never be used in an analysis of complex power issues or where power logistics is concerned. Certified instruments are out of the scope of the end user.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Another great 40 watt T-12 bulb (IF you can find them in your area, are the Vita-Lights. One of the BEST daylight spectrum fluorescent tube ever made.
http://www.duro-test.com/fluor.vitalite.html

You should be able to get "daylight fluorescent" tubes at Home Depot, Lowes, or any good lighting store.
Things to consider.
warm white = pinkish color
cool white = bluish color
daylight = greenish to yellowish color. CONSIDERED to be white, but each eye is different..(true daylight is somewhere around 5000-6500 kelvin. (depends on who's doing the testing...)

depends on the room furnishing/paint colors too. in a kitchen warm yellowish pink can make it look grimy. i perfer cool light in kitchen.

and color rendering index is only comparable to other tubes with the same color temperature rating.

heh i'd like to fool around with a super high cri tube sometime, but places like homedepot only sell standard issue 70-80cri type stuff.


what brand ballasts did u buy. i gotta replace my sh*tty ass magnetic humming ones sooner or later. and yea, there isn't exactly a consumer guide for this kinda stuff

 

[Jeff7]

They're Commercial Electric or something like that - Home Depot brand. For myself, I got their $20 fixtures, and for the rest of the house, well, $20/fixture just wasn't an option, put simply. Thus far 6 other fixtures were put in or replaced, and there are still 3 magnetic ballasted fixtures remaining. $20/fixture was not an option, so I got the ones that were $8 each. The ballast used in the cheap ones is a Sunpark SL15, which are apparently popular for overdriving fluorescent tubes - use one ballast per tube for 1.7x the light.

The lights I bought were also gotten at Home Depot, Philips brand Alto lamps, 6500k color temp, 85CRI. I love the look of the light from them.

 

[Rubycon]

How hot are the tubes? T8 bulbs especially when overdriven tend to shift warmer after a few k hours. They are cheap so re-lamp often.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
They're Commercial Electric or something like that - Home Depot brand. For myself, I got their $20 fixtures, and for the rest of the house, well, $20/fixture just wasn't an option, put simply. Thus far 6 other fixtures were put in or replaced, and there are still 3 magnetic ballasted fixtures remaining. $20/fixture was not an option, so I got the ones that were $8 each. The ballast used in the cheap ones is a Sunpark SL15, which are apparently popular for overdriving flourescent tubes - use one ballast per tube for 1.7x the light.

The lights I bought were also gotten at Home Depot, Philips brand Alto lamps, 6500k color temp, 85CRI. I love the look of the light from them.

ah nice, yea i got the philips tubes too sucker for green endcaps

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
How hot are the tubes? T8 bulbs especially when overdriven tend to shift warmer after a few k hours. They are cheap so re-lamp often.

The T8's are probably around 100F after being on for over an hour.