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SystemBuild, Before I pull out the credit card...

mgon154

mgon154

Member
I haven't built a super system in a long time so I'm behind, and I have questions, but first off, I ask please that everyone refrain from your personal comments like "that's too much money, here try this instead" or "why in the world would you want all that?" - PRICE IS NO CONCERN so I beg you, TRY TO BELIEVE me when I say that without STILL questioning it. Those are the most irritating statements and they have absolutely nothing to do with any of my questions. We are on the Anandtech forum, so I expect others to be on the same "extreme" page as me. I enjoy extreme systems, so I'm sure others here will understand my enthusiasm about building such systems.

Remember, if I'm asking these questions then obviously I can afford it, so please try to stay on the same page as me. Hehe thanks!


The system I have in mind is...

Mobo: EVGA X79 Dark [150-SE-E789-KR]
CPU: i7 4960x
GPU: Quad 2x EVGA GeForce GTX TITAN Superclocked [06G-P4-2791-KR]
Power: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX1500w Classified [120-PG-1500-XR]
OS: 64-Bit Windows 8
RAM: GSkill 64GB 3000Mhz 12CL (thats 16GBx4) [F3-3000C12Q-16GTXDG]
SSD: 2x Samsung 256GB 840 Pro in RAID0
SSD Controller: LSI 9271-8iCC PCIe RAID controller + Fastpath
Soundcard: Sound Blaster ZxR
Cooling: Hydro Series H110 280mmExtreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler.
Video Cooling: ???
Monitor: 120Hz Samsung (not sure which one yet)
CASE: ???

Ok, now for the questions regarding this setup...

0. My biggest question and concern is where my main bottleneck would be, particularly, will having a RAID controller that's PCIe and a PCI/PCIe sound card along with 2 Titans drop the x16 performance to x8 on my video cards using EVGA Dark Mobo? and Can all these even fit on this mobo? This is the most important question to me at the moment because it would be the biggest waste if it doesn't work out.

0b. Does a RAID controller downgrade x16 to x8 for my video cards? Will the sound card downgrade x16 to x8 for the video cards?

1. Best liquid cooling for the Titan SC video cards?

1b Are the GTX 790's better than the Titans? (keep in mind I need room for the sound card and RAID controller, if its possible)

2. What is the best liquid cooling setup kit ever, without building a custom one?

3. Is it possible to cool both the video cards and the CPU in one setup kit? If not, what does it take to cool everything perfectly?

4. Are 2x Titans the best SLI performing video cards or do you recommend a faster setup? (only out of NVIDIA, I dont like AMD, money is no concern)

5. Will 64GB of RAM slow anything down on my PC? I heard more RAM may do that. However, this Gskill RAM is supposed to be super fast, regardless.

6. I don't know much about RAID controllers and even though price is no concern for me I'd still like to avoid spending more than $1000 for this particular item, it's just a RAID controller, so is there anything better than what I chose performance wise for under $1000?

7. Will this power supply have enough power plugs for this system?

8. What case would fit the EVGA Dark comfortably?

9. I heard about the EVGA SRX mobo, is that better than the DARK one? I'm unsure about this, I just want the best 🙂

9. Lastly, am I missing anything for this system? Or anything that you would replace that "clearly" performs better?

Thanks, you guys have always answered my questions regarding builds before I purchase them. I couldn't thank you all enough.
 
It would really help if you could say what you're using it for. Just going extreme for the sake of going extreme? If so, hold off for a few more weeks. With both the Titan Ultra on the way, if you really want the best that money can buy you should hold off.

Titan is better than 780 (I'm assuming that "790" was a typo, since that doesn't exist yet) at stock speeds, but both R9 290X (depending on the game) and Titan Ultra (duh) will beat the Titan. As a result, you'll be settling for second/third best if you buy now, and you don't seem to want to do that. 🙂

Also, RAM won't slow down your PC, but at such high speeds it can limit your CPU's overclocking potential.
 
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Techhog said:
It would really help if you could say what you're using it for. Just going extreme for the sake of going extreme? If so, hold off for a few more weeks. With both the Titan Ultra on the way, if you really want the best that money can buy you should hold off.

Titan is better than 780 at stock speeds, but both R9 290X (depending on the game) and Titan Ultra (duh) will beat the Titan. As a result, you'll be settling for second/third best if you buy now, and you don't seem to want to do that. 🙂

Also, RAM won't slow down your PC, but at such high speeds it can limit your CPU's overclocking potential.
Click to expand...
Thanks Techhog. I build an extreme system ever few years and I'm behind. It's for gaming, video editing, everything.I know that sounds trollish but I do this every few years. You help big time mentioning the Titan Ultra, I had no idea that was coming so I will definitely wait for it.

Is the 290X an AMD card? And if so, would it "clearly" be a winner over a Titan? Because I'm trying to avoid AMD unless it's a clear winner. Sorry for the questions, I will need to research these new ideas 🙂

You raised a new concern for me regarding the RAM 🙁 I have a lot of thinking to do I guess.

Edit: Yup now I'm debating between R9 290x and Titan Ultra. 290x's seem pretty hyped. I wonder how it fairs vs the Titan ultra, paper spec wise.
 
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1. There all pretty much the same... go with what company u honestly feel looks the best.
Personally i like koolance because they have great customer service, quality in parts, and they have been in the game the longest out of all the vendors with the exclusion of possibly swiftech.

1b. to my understanding the 780GTX classified when overclocked was beating titans.
However i am not 100% sure about that... But i heard the 780GTX Classified was a beast.

2. Kits are the same as piecing it out. Take some time reading guides, and see what parts you need to watercool and how to get water to there.
Its not really difficult and we have a lot of people in cases and cooling to assist you.
Its also a lot more fun and rewarding when you do it yourself.

3. no not possible at all... You need a very large radiator... at least a 120x3 for decient cooling... larger the better.... However on a loop like that, i would even push on dual looping the setup. Also seeing how your not limited in budget, id even watercool the motherboard with a full board block.

4. As i said i heard the eVGA 780GTX Classified was a beast... and it was reaching over titan area when overclocked.

5. larger ram does not apply to you on your platform.
You only have 1 Quad channel Bank.... not 2... so it DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU.

Larger capacity memory however tends to be slower in timings, but is virtually unnoticeable.

6. dont mess with dedicated raid controllers if u have no idea what they are.... Your asking for grief on so many levels...
I had to bold it... because i was STUPID to ignore that warning when i went there... and i hope you dont repeat my Derp moment....
If you want to learn about dedicated raid controllers, then go ahead and get it (i was forced to learn it cuz of my derp moment and i ONLY use them in my SAN's)... however, if ur new to it... dont bother with it as it will bring u a lot of grief.

Just stick with onboard PCH R0 On your SATA-3 for your SSD's.
It will most definitely be enough for 2xSSD R0.
I believe the pipeline can handle up to 6 SSD's before you saturate your lanes.
Its 3 SSD's on an ICH10R. However if you get a X79 board it should be PCH.

7. I dont trust eVGA with anything OUTSIDE GPU... get the Corsair AX1200i as that is the cream of the crop PSU.

8. Better question would be.... what case do i need to fit my liquid cooling system internally... your motherboard isnt the biggest concern if ur going to liquid cool.

9. eVGA boards are garbage... they are extremely overpriced for the quality in boards...
My personal favorate in high end boards:
Gigabyte UD7 series or higher like the UD9.
ASUS RoG series... Republic of Gamers... They usually label these boards Rampage.. Maximus... RoG has quality.
MSI High End.... not the low.. not the mid... ONLY the high end...

9. why is it listed twice? 😛 and yes... toss out your PSU with a Corsair AX1200i. And Pick up a Gigabyte G1 Assasin2, or a Asus Rampage

9. i guess were singing the beatles...
 
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Lol thank you aigomorla, I apologize for the odd questioning but I must say you gave me quite a bit to think about with your solid answers. I was bent on the eVGA board because it has 8 world records hehe

I think I need some more education on this before I finalize my decison. I will review your questions and digest them. After that, I'll be back with a follow up. I am grateful to you.
 
mgon154 said:
Thanks Techhog. I build an extreme system ever few years and I'm behind. It's for gaming, video editing, everything.I know that sounds trollish but I do this every few years. You help big time mentioning the Titan Ultra, I had no idea that was coming so I will definitely wait for it.

Is the 290X an AMD card? And if so, would it "clearly" be a winner over a Titan? Because I'm trying to avoid AMD unless it's a clear winner. Sorry for the questions, I will need to research these new ideas 🙂

You raised a new concern for me regarding the RAM 🙁 I have a lot of thinking to do I guess.

Edit: Yup now I'm debating between R9 290x and Titan Ultra. 290x's seem pretty hyped. I wonder how it fairs vs the Titan ultra, paper spec wise.
Click to expand...

Like I said, depending on the game. If we had more evidence that Mantle would be very widespread, it would be a clear winner. However, that's not the case. On the other hand, it's more or less a sure thing that the Titan Ultra will destroy everything on the market in DX11(.1). If rumors are true, however, benchmarks for both will be out in the coming weeks. You can decide for yourself then. 🙂
 
I'm sold on the AX1200i. This system is going to be the most expensive I've ever had to build but that's ok. I'm gathering everyone's post then composing them for research. I think I'm going to hit the 15k mark, but as many have said already I should go without the RAID card because these mobos are good enough. That would slice a good 1k off my total, but I feel I'm still missing something.

64GB of RAM is quite obsurd from a normal standpoint, I know, but try to understand I'm trying to max this system out. I will be waiting for the Titan Ultra and 290x to see which is top of the line, but so far it seems that the Titan Ultra may be the better card over the 290x.

I'll be back still with my thoughts today! Thanks
 
Well, if you really want the best of the best in every single category I would say ditch the Creative soundcard and get yourself a really nice USB DAC instead. Something like the Peachtree Audio Nova or the PS Audio NPW. Not sure what you plan on using for headphones or speakers but this would also warrant upgrading those as well depending which way you go.
 
The 290x includes DirectX 11.2 support, while the Titan Ultra only includes 11.1 support.
That's according to what I've read elsewhere, and subject to further verification.

The newly re-designed cylinder-shaped MacPro is due for release soon, so: that machine's features should be compared with whatever custom high-end machine that you're building.
Also: water cooling such an expensive machine as you're talking about seems risky. Have you considered one of the pre-built water cooled PC vendors? So that: the risk of a potential water cooling leakage would be covered by the 3rd-party vendor.
 
I'm back! And thanks for those who have posted here or on my other topics. I have compiled a list of questions based off the replies I recieved. Some of you may have mentioned these in your comments but I turned them into questions. So you may read your own replies in 3rd person in question form lol


I'm at work and I'll be busy for the next 3 days so I won't be able to do much research on these things untill later, this is why I'm asking what appears to be silly simple questions, but I appreciate your help anyway if you're bored. Just answer what you already know, and if you research something FOR me then I will definitely be greatful for that. Don't break your back of answering me, as long as the answers are accurate. I'm sure there's a few bored people around here 🙂

QUESTIONS FOR RAM
1) As you know, I am trying to max out 64GB of RAM - There is only eight RAM slots available on the Dark mobo, so Is there any motherboards with more than eight RAM slots available? If not, will buying 8x8GB RAM modules be a good idea or will that affect performance or better it?
2) Regrading 64GB of RAM at the highest speed I can get, I heard this will limit my CPU's overclocking potential, is this true with the setup I'm currently deciding on? Does this limit exist even with the best motherboards money can buy? I'm afraid of having this much RAM now with possibility of limiting my OC potential. If this does happen, how much OC potential am I really hindering? Is it SO great that it should make me think about dropping my RAM? I prefer to keep 64GB.
3) Someone told me that larger RAM doesn't apply to my platform because the Dark mobo only has 1 Quad channel Bank, not 2, what does this mean? Nobody else has mentioned this before.

QUESTIONS FOR MOTHERBOARD
1) Which motherboards give at least 42 lanes for PCI-E traffic? I need 2x16 for graphics, 1x1 for sound card, 1x8 for RAID controller. Any cards installed other than two Titans will drop me to x8/x8 throughput and I want to avoid that. I need more than 32 lanes for PCI-E traffic. [1x16, 2x16, 3x8, 4x8]
2) Some have recommended the RIVE Black Edition motherboard over the eVGA Dark instead, others say the Gigabyte UD9. Which of these motherboards currently are the the best money can buy? If any, what benefits does the winner clearly have? How many lanes of PCI-E traffic does the RIVE Black Edition have, what about the Gigabyte UD9? True, most games barely even utilize more than 4 cores, soon 8, but think of this in benchmarking terms and future use. - So the real question is: eVGA Dark vs Gigabyte UD9 vs RIVE Black Edition vs ASUS RoG series vs MSI HighEnd-only boards, vs etc.. Is there anything else that could compete or beat these? If not, which of these are the cream of the crop? I was recommended the Gigabyte G1 Assassin2 as well.

I hear that people are moving away from EVGA due to BIOS issues, especially in the X79 chipset for them. So, because of that, forget the records broke by the EVGA Dark

QUESTIONS FOR SOUND
1) I was told that if I want the best of sound that I should ditch the Creative sound card and get myself a USB DAC instead. Something like the PeachTree Audio Nova, or the PS AUdio NPW. I guess these truly are that much better than any sound card on he market eh?

QUESTIONS FOR SSD RAID, CONTROLLERS
1) As far as my SSD's go in RAID0, the last time I heard that was a bad idea to stick SSD's in RAID0, but that was 2 years ago. Has this idea changed? What bout TRIM support? Lifespan of SSD's when put in RAID0? Is the idea of putting SSD's in RAID0 so bad that I should totally not do it? Or is there easy ways around the "wrongness" of doing this?
2) Someone said "Instead of getting two SSD's and running RAID, just buy one of THESE. This appears to be internal RAID. Why do this? How would this perform against 2x 512GB Samsung 840 PRO's in RAID0 without a card? Are these internal RAID setups truly that much more efficient? If so, how much?
3) I was told, very stricly, DO NOT MESS WITH DEDICATED RAID CONTROLLERS, THEY WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE, YOU ARE ASKING FOR GRIEF ON SO MANY LEVELS. Because of this statement I will avoid the troubles ahead of time and perhaps go without a RAID controller, which might change the answers in some of my other questions. However, DOES THIS including setting up an INTERNAL RAID on my PC? Something like the link shown here --> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820785002.

QUESTIONS FOR VIDEO CARDS
1) Is the performance of 4 Titans so great that I should ditch the sound card and RAID controller, or is the performance increase not that significant? What is the difference of performance between 2 Titans and 4 Titans? Think of this in pure benchmarking terms.
2) If I plan on getting a new 4K TV, then I'm sure I'll need 6GB of VRAM, I wonder if the Titan Ultra or x290's will have enough VRAM? In that case I'll need at least dual video cards for maximum performance anyway, correct?
3) Waterblocks! I know there's several types of waterblocks for EVGA graphics cards, but what do you think about Koolance? They've been around for years and I'm sure they have good quality, but again, do they beat the competition? or is this a case where waterblocks don't make much of a difference who you get them from?

ALL OTHER QUESTIONS
1) What is the "Cylinder-shaped MacPro" due for release soon? I don't like Macs at all, but I heard it's comparable with whatever high end PC I am building. What are the cons? the pros of this MacPro?
2) I was recommended the MountainMod cases because of the size of watercooling I may need and the motherboard is something I even want to put watercooling on. Does this honestly look like the best route to go for a system like this? or do you know a better idea? http://www.mountainmods.com/. I was also recommended the Corsair 900D case. How does this stack up compared to the MountainMod cases?
 
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mgon154 said:
QUESTIONS FOR RAM
1) As you know, I am trying to max out 64GB of RAM - There is only eight RAM slots available on the Dark mobo, so Is there any motherboards with more than eight RAM slots available? If not, will buying 8x8GB RAM modules be a good idea or will that affect performance or better it?
Click to expand...

The number of modules doesn't matter as much as the total number of ranks per channel. Lower number of ranks is less stressful on the IMC and allows for higher overclocks. 4GB DIMMs are single-rank and 8GB DIMMs are usually dual-rank.

Side note: I don't see how you're going to get to 64GB because the X79 Dark only has 4 DIMM slots and the G.Skill kit you linked is only 4GB DIMMs. 4x4GB = 16GB.
 
mfenn said:
The number of modules doesn't matter as much as the total number of ranks per channel. Lower number of ranks is less stressful on the IMC and allows for higher overclocks. 4GB DIMMs are single-rank and 8GB DIMMs are usually dual-rank.

Side note: I don't see how you're going to get to 64GB because the X79 Dark only has 4 DIMM slots and the G.Skill kit you linked is only 4GB DIMMs. 4x4GB = 16GB.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I understand all of this, but if I'm not mistaken basically what you're trying to say is that if I go for 64GB of RAM then something else is going to suffer, and 4GB DIMMs are more efficient, correct?

I'm not sure what a "rank" is though, and if I want a lower number of ranks, but with the highest amount of RAM possible, then what route do you think I should take? I am most definitely going with the GSkill RAM though because the quality is impeccable 🙂

I think because of what you just said I may bump the RAM down to 32GB of instead, or for maximum OC speed and quantity of RAM do you think I'm stuck with 16GB? Is there a motherboard that handles RAM better than the EVGA Dark? (side note: I think I'm going to ditch the Dark mobo if someone recommends better)

@techdog

Hehe no problem! You've already replied more than once and you are very informative to me 🙂 I am grateful for any contribution you make. This system costs a lot of bells for me so everything you say counts big.
 
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mgon154 said:
I'm not sure if I understand all of this, but if I'm not mistaken basically what you're trying to say is that if I go for 64GB of RAM then something else is going to suffer, and 4GB DIMMs are more efficient, correct?

I'm not sure what a "rank" is though, and if I want a lower number of ranks, but with the highest amount of RAM possible, then what route do you think I should take? I am most definitely going with the GSkill RAM though because the quality is impeccable 🙂

I think because of what you just said I may bump the RAM down to 32GB of instead, or for maximum OC speed and quantity of RAM do you think I'm stuck with 16GB? Is there a motherboard that handles RAM better than the EVGA Dark? (side note: I think I'm going to ditch the Dark mobo if someone recommends better)
Click to expand...

A rank is basically the number of DRAM chips on the DIMM. A dual-rank DIMM has twice as many chips as a single-rank. The more chips there are, the more load is placed on the processor's memory controller, and the less likely it is to be able to hit high speeds. Short answer: yes going to 64GB will limit your overclocking capability.

When I commented about the number of DIMM slots, I was looking at the X79 FTW instead of the X79 Dark. The X79 FTW has 4, the X79 Dark has 8. At any rate, there is no way to get to 64GB with the G.Skill kit you linked, the most you can do is 32GB.

The actual motherboard doesn't matter much in terms of memory overclocking. An 8 slot with 4 empty slots is effectively the same as a 4 slot, as long as you put your DIMMs into the nearer slots. All the high-end boards you're looking at will have the BIOS settings and trace routing necessary for maximum speed. What really matters is the quality of the particular CPU you get. Some will overclock better than others (core clock and DRAM clock), it's pretty much luck of the draw.

To really hit worrld-record maximum speeds, you need to buy a lot of CPUs (at least 5, preferably 20+) and test them all. Then sell the lower performers on ebay to recoup costs.
 
mfenn said:
A rank is basically the number of DRAM chips on the DIMM. A dual-rank DIMM has twice as many chips as a single-rank. The more chips there are, the more load is placed on the processor's memory controller, and the less likely it is to be able to hit high speeds. Short answer: yes going to 64GB will limit your overclocking capability.

When I commented about the number of DIMM slots, I was looking at the X79 FTW instead of the X79 Dark. The X79 FTW has 4, the X79 Dark has 8. At any rate, there is no way to get to 64GB with the G.Skill kit you linked, the most you can do is 32GB.

The actual motherboard doesn't matter much in terms of memory overclocking. An 8 slot with 4 empty slots is effectively the same as a 4 slot, as long as you put your DIMMs into the nearer slots. All the high-end boards you're looking at will have the BIOS settings and trace routing necessary for maximum speed. What really matters is the quality of the particular CPU you get. Some will overclock better than others (core clock and DRAM clock), it's pretty much luck of the draw.

To really hit worrld-record maximum speeds, you need to buy a lot of CPUs (at least 5, preferably 20+) and test them all. Then sell the lower performers on ebay to recoup costs.
Click to expand...

Thanks mfenn!

So are you saying I'd be safe with 32GB of RAM with plenty of OC potential? 32GB sounds alright, but I would like to avoid 16GB. As far as extreme systems go, do you know of any solid motherboards that you can share with me? I am looking only for the highest end possible.

The CPU I'm getting is considered in my 1st post. It's the i7 4960x, hopefully that will hang with every other component I'm throwing at it.
 
This is the most extreme system I have seen so give it a shot. It's Adamk47's build - Intel Core i7 4960X @ 4.5GHz | ASRock X79 Extreme11 | 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws Z 2400 DDR | Three Nvidia GTX Titans in 3-Way SLI | 256GB Vertex 4 SSD | Eight 512GB Vertex 4 SSDs in RAID-0 (4096GB) | 4TB Deskstar 7K4000 HDD | Pioneer BDR-206 BD-RW | Cooler Master HAF-X case | Corsair H110 cooler | Corsair AX1200 power supply | Razer BlackWidow Ultimate keyboard | CST LaserTRAC 2545W trackball | DoubleSight DS-307W monitor | Shure SRH1440 headphones. 🙂
 
tg2708 said:
This is the most extreme system I have seen so give it a shot. It's Adamk47's build - Intel Core i7 4960X @ 4.5GHz | ASRock X79 Extreme11 | 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws Z 2400 DDR | Three Nvidia GTX Titans in 3-Way SLI | 256GB Vertex 4 SSD | Eight 512GB Vertex 4 SSDs in RAID-0 (4096GB) | 4TB Deskstar 7K4000 HDD | Pioneer BDR-206 BD-RW | Cooler Master HAF-X case | Corsair H110 cooler | Corsair AX1200 power supply | Razer BlackWidow Ultimate keyboard | CST LaserTRAC 2545W trackball | DoubleSight DS-307W monitor | Shure SRH1440 headphones. 🙂
Click to expand...

^^^^ When I saw his sig, I nearly had an orgasm. However, I think OP's build might top his 😛
 
RayTheKing said:
^^^^ When I saw his sig, I nearly had an orgasm. However, I think OP's build might top his 😛
Click to expand...

Lol the only way to top that build is to throw in another titan and a triple screen setup but to truly top it op will need to wait on nvidia's newer offerings. But all I know is both will be killer systems.
 
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