System upgrade advice needed

[marvs5]

My current desktop rig has unexpectedly died on me (something on the mobo or CPU dies when it heats up and kills the system). It was an Athlon XP 1700+ with a Gigabyte VIA-KT266A based mobo. When I built it in late 2001, the choices back then were pretty simple. You could get an Athlon XP or Intel Pentium. The XPs were cheaper, but ran faster and hotter.

Now that I'm forced to get a new CPU/mobo setup and after having done some research, I'm really confused by the plethora of choices available today. So I'm seeking input from the community.

The machine first and foremost is a work machine for my business (Microsoft Office apps). So reliability is key. The machine will also act as a PVR, will do some video/audio processing and very limited gaming (Unreal Tournament).

I also want to re-use the remaining parts of the old system that still work: 2 IDE/ATA-100 hard drives, 2 IDE optical drives, Hauppauge PVR-150 (PCI), Antec case with 400W PSU (the 412X) and a cheapie ATI AGP video card (though I would be willing to upgrade to a cheapie PCI-E card). I also want to get technology that would be upgradable into the future.

So, all that being said, I'm looking at both the Athlon 64 and Pentium 4 630 as they seem to be the coolest running CPUs (and I'm guessing heat killed my existing rig). I am open to other ideas. That being said, anyone have any thoughts on this and which chipset is the best to accompany each CPU?

Thx in advance for your help and input.

 

[Fisher999]

Originally posted by: marvs5
I also want to re-use the remaining parts...and a cheapie ATI AGP video card (though I would be willing to upgrade to a cheapie PCI-E card).

How cheapie of a PCI-E card for now?

I think that's really important to know !

Greg

 

[marvs5]

I don't need a top of the line graphics card as I'm not a heavy duty gamer. So what ever "minimally" will work.

 

[Fisher999]

Originally posted by: marvs5
My current desktop rig has unexpectedly died on me (something on the mobo or CPU dies when it heats up and kills the system). It was an Athlon XP 1700+ with a Gigabyte VIA-KT266A based mobo. When I built it in late 2001, the choices back then were pretty simple. You could get an Athlon XP or Intel Pentium. The XPs were cheaper, but ran faster and hotter.

Now that I'm forced to get a new CPU/mobo setup and after having done some research, I'm really confused by the plethora of choices available today. So I'm seeking input from the community.

The machine first and foremost is a work machine for my business (Microsoft Office apps). So reliability is key. The machine will also act as a PVR, will do some video/audio processing and very limited gaming (Unreal Tournament).

I also want to re-use the remaining parts of the old system that still work: 2 IDE/ATA-100 hard drives, 2 IDE optical drives, Hauppauge PVR-150 (PCI), Antec case with 400W PSU (the 412X) and a cheapie ATI AGP video card (though I would be willing to upgrade to a cheapie PCI-E card). I also want to get technology that would be upgradable into the future.

So, all that being said, I'm looking at both the Athlon 64 and Pentium 4 630 as they seem to be the coolest running CPUs (and I'm guessing heat killed my existing rig). I am open to other ideas. That being said, anyone have any thoughts on this and which chipset is the best to accompany each CPU?

Thx in advance for your help and input.

AMD Athlon systems are better performers in Microsoft Office Apps and Gaming and Intel P4's are generally superior/faster in audio/video encoding, 3D rendering and content creation applications.

Based on your needs, I will recommend a system similar (but with some adjustments) to a system I will be putting together when the rest of the components arrive next week. I like you had some optical drives, a hard drive, soundcard, keyboard/mouse, monitor and speakers previously-purchased for a system that never got built.

I posted a thread over here at Anandtech and another one over here that were designed INITIALLY to help me determine whether I should go Intel P4/Intel chipset or Amd Athlon64/nForce4 chipset. My computer uses are very similar to yours and I was convinced to go with an AMD Athlon 64 Socket 939 "Venice Core" CPU ("Venice" core offers some advantages over the "Winchester" core in that it has a better memory controller and support for Intel's SSE instruction set among other things.)

I won't base a system on the newest "San Diego" with 1MB of level 2 cache (versus 512 KB for the "Venice") because the SD's start at the 3700+ and around $334 !

Also, I am going to assume for now that you will NOT be overclocking; we can address that issue later if that is a priority for you.

You should probably use a PCI-E based mobo since the majority, if not all, of the mobos that support the Socket 939 "Venice" core are PCI-E based.

Since you will need a PCI-E graphics card but want a "cheapy" I will include a low-end PCI-E card in the recommendations. This card can be sold or scraped down the road and replaced with a more expensive/faster performing card. I am going to be suggesting an ATI Radeon X300SE chipset-based graphics card.

So here are the recommendations:

Motherboard - The $135.50 delivered Asus A8N-E mobo - a nforce4 Ultra/Socket 939 board which has Asus quality and plenty of goodies including PCI-E slots, PATA IDE (w/RAID), SATA (w/RAID), Gigabit LAN, 8 channel on-board audio but no onboard firewire.

CPU - This AMD Athlon64 3000+ 1.8GHz Socket 939 "Venice" Retail Boxed CPU for $159

( If you want a little more horsepower you could go with this AMD Athlon64 3200+ 2.0 GHz Socket 939 "Venice" Retail-Boxed CPU for $209 )

RAM - This very popular Corsair ValueSelect 1 GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 400 CAS 2.5 RAM for $84.32 delivered or this G.Skill 1 GB (2 x 512 MB) DDR400 2-3-3-6 RAM for $102.32 delivered.

Videocard - This ASUS EAX300SE-X/TD/128 Radeon X300SE 128MB 64-bit DDR PCI-Express x16 Video Card - Retail for $64.50 delivered. I chose this card because it has the wondeful 2D graphics provided by the ATI Radeon x300SE video chip which yet can still run some current games at low resolutions. This ASUS model carries their quality name and also has DVI output (for DVI LCD flat-panel monitors) and has a composite video output to TV.

May I also recommened considering this HIGHLY recommended Power Supply, the $82.95 SeaSonic S12-430 . It is known to be very efficient under low, mid and high loads, very quiet and has great features like a SINGLE 120mm fan, ACTIVE PFC (Power Factor Correction) , DUAL 12V rails and good airflow design. It is important to have a GOOD, reliable, stable, efficient P/S powering your system.

Optional if Souncard is needed - this SB Audigy 2 Value Souuncard
for $53 delivered[/quote]

This brings the total delivered price for the system with the AMD Athlon64 3000+ "Venice"/Corsair ValueRam with P/S from $526.27 ( $579.27 including the SB Audigy Value Soundcard ) to the higher-priced AMD Athlon 3200+ "Venice"/G.Skill RAM with P/S at $594.31 ( $647.31 with SB Audigy Value Soundcard ).

If you absolutely need onboard firewire may I suggest either this $124.99 delivered nForce4 Ultra EPoX EP-9NPA+Ultra mobo which is also very popular at this forum or this $145.50 delivered MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum mobo or this $143.50 delivered GIGABYTE GA-K8N Ultra-9 motherboard.

IF you are into overclocking or gaming many people here like this DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D motherboard for $128.99 delivered (with the current $9 INSTANT rebate at NewEgg). Note that it does not have any legacy serial or parallel ports (if you need those) and has one MORE PCI-E x16 slot but one LESS standard 32 bit PCI slot than the other boards mentioned. This board is very popular amongst GAMERS and OVERCLOCKERS. Please note that it is know to be very RAM FINICKY so you may want to question forum members who own this board about the memory brand and type that they are using with this board.

If you like the ASUS A8N-E board and can spare having to use one of your standard 32 bit PCI slots you could always add this Koutech PCI to 1394a Card for just $16 delivered to add FIREWIRE support to your system.

I hope I have been of help to you !

If you need any OThER components for your system or want some other recommendations please let me know in this thread or via the Private Message feature.

Good Luck !

Greg

P.S. Mary, I had to edit this post because I discovered I mistakenly put a comment about the videocard after the Asus motherboard link and that may have been confusing. I corrected it and I hope you re-read this post !

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

It sounds like this is unplanned upgrade, I had one of those recently heh.

If you want to keep this as cheap as possible, you can stick with AGP. You say you're not a heavy gamer and if you're pretty happy with your current videocard performance, you don't have to replace it.

In the future, there will certainly be cards as high as the 6800 ultras and X800XTPE in AGP in the future. At least one more generation of videocards should come in AGP as well. It's true that the future is PCI-e, but there is still going to be quite an upgrade path in AGP for someone who doesn't game much.

If you're interested in keeping it cool, A64s are quite cool. With the retail HS/F I'm in the 30s for CPU temp. For someone who keeps their CPU for a long time and is not planning on overclocking, I think the retail package is a good idea because you get a 3 year warranty vs 30 days (or is it 90?) with an OEM CPU and the retail A64 coolers are pretty quiet and work well.

For upgradability I think A64 939 is the best choice. I don't know if there are any new 754 CPUs coming out, but 939 still has a lot on the horizon.

You can get a nice feature rich 939 board with AGP for under $100. For example, I got the Soltek K8Tpro to replace my Epox 8RDA+ NF2 that died. I didn't want to go PCI-e because I already had a 9800pro and am not a heavy gamer.

I think the 3000+ A64 is a good buy. The jump in performance for 3200+ isn't very cost effective, but I did it anyway myself . I wouldn't go above 3200+ though.

I have the corsair value select that Fisher999 linked to running in my Soltek board and it's working nicely.

I also have the 430watt Seasonic PSU he linked to. It's a very efficient and quiet one as he mentioned. I'm using it to run my rig that includes the parts I mentioned above as well as 6 harddrives. I'm sure you could get away with the 380 or even the 330 if your system is not too demanding.

 

[Fisher999]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
It sounds like this is unplanned upgrade, I had one of those recently heh.

If you want to keep this as cheap as possible, you can stick with AGP....
If you're interested in keeping it cool, A64s are quite cool. With the retail HS/F I'm in the 30s for CPU temp. For someone who keeps their CPU for a long time and is not planning on overclocking, I think the retail package is a good idea because you get a 3 year warranty...For upgradability I think A64 939 is the best choice...

You can get a nice feature rich 939 board with AGP for under $100. For example, I got the Soltek K8Tpro to replace my Epox 8RDA+ NF2 that died. I didn't want to go PCI-e because I already had a 9800pro and am not a heavy gamer.

I think the 3000+ A64 is a good buy. The jump in performance for 3200+ isn't very cost effective, but I did it anyway myself . I wouldn't go above 3200+ though.

I have the corsair value select that Fisher999 linked to running in my Soltek board and it's working nicely.

I also have the 430watt Seasonic PSU he linked to. It's a very efficient and quiet one as he mentioned. I'm using it to run my rig that includes the parts I mentioned above as well as 6 harddrives. I'm sure you could get away with the 380 or even the 330 if your system is not too demanding.

With the exception of suggesting she stick with AGP ( a very good thought I might add ) I want to thank you for basically supporting my recommendations to Mary. As you know I have my own new system rig in the works (still waiting on the CPU/Mobo) and I have done a lot of research prior to and after posting "help" threads here at wonderful Anandtech.com.

I appreciate everyone's help and I wanted to pass on some of this newly-obtained wisdom.

I think I'll link her to the Epox and Chaintech nForce4 ultra boards that are so popular here (and maybe even the ECS - I know, I know, but you'd be surprised how many PM's I received about that board - it seems few people, except one I know of, is willing to admit "out in the open" that they think that board is not too bad of a choice but they will in PM, lol.)

Thanks again and hope to see you soon.

BTW, I bolded that one line in your "quote" because I went ahead and went with the Venice 3200+ too even though the Venice 3000+ for $50 less would have sufficed. With the 10x multiplier some believe it will be an easier chip to OC, if one would ever want to do that

Greg

 

[Fisher999]

Originally posted by: marvs5
My current desktop rig has unexpectedly died on me...Thx in advance for your help and input.

Mary, I see you have already signed off but when you come back on and get these messages I just wanted to let you know that there will probably be a lot of posts from people who will have widely-varying opinions about what you should buy. People here, including myself, LOVE to give their opinions about these kinds of things. :roll:

The same thing happened when I posted my threads and it could become VERY confusing. Just remember that no ONE person is 100% right in their recommendations, not even me, lol, although I think I've done a reasonable job in recommending to you GOOD RELIABLE components with TRUSTED names. You DID say that "...reliability is key..." and I totally agree.

I think the guys are watching sports today because there are not many people signed on but believe me, that WILL change and I think that this thread WILL grow.

Again, best of luck to you and contact me anytime for help; I'm willing to link you to articles or to other forum members who have experience and knowledge !!!

Greg

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Fisher999

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
It sounds like this is unplanned upgrade, I had one of those recently heh.

If you want to keep this as cheap as possible, you can stick with AGP....
If you're interested in keeping it cool, A64s are quite cool. With the retail HS/F I'm in the 30s for CPU temp. For someone who keeps their CPU for a long time and is not planning on overclocking, I think the retail package is a good idea because you get a 3 year warranty...For upgradability I think A64 939 is the best choice...

You can get a nice feature rich 939 board with AGP for under $100. For example, I got the Soltek K8Tpro to replace my Epox 8RDA+ NF2 that died. I didn't want to go PCI-e because I already had a 9800pro and am not a heavy gamer.

I think the 3000+ A64 is a good buy. The jump in performance for 3200+ isn't very cost effective, but I did it anyway myself . I wouldn't go above 3200+ though.

I have the corsair value select that Fisher999 linked to running in my Soltek board and it's working nicely.

I also have the 430watt Seasonic PSU he linked to. It's a very efficient and quiet one as he mentioned. I'm using it to run my rig that includes the parts I mentioned above as well as 6 harddrives. I'm sure you could get away with the 380 or even the 330 if your system is not too demanding.

With the exception of suggesting she stick with AGP ( a very good thought I might add ) I want to thank you for basically supporting my recommendations to Mary. As you know I have my own new system rig in the works (still waiting on the CPU/Mobo) and I have done a lot of research prior to and after posting "help" threads here at wonderful Anandtech.com.

I appreciate everyone's help and I wanted to pass on some of this newly-obtained wisdom.

I think I'll link her to the Epox and Chaintech nForce4 ultra boards that are so popular here (and maybe even the ECS - I know, I know, but you'd be surprised how many PM's I received about that board - it seems few people (except one I know of) is willing to admit "out in the open" that they think that board is not too bad of a choice but they will in PM, lol.

Thanks again and hope to see you soon.

BTW, I bolded that one line in your "quote" because I went ahead and went with the Venice 3200+ too even thought the Venice 3000+ for $50 less would have sufficed. With the 10x multiplier some believe it will be an easier chip to OC, if one would ever want to do that

Greg

yeah. I went with the Winchester because that was the latest core out when I got my rig.

I agree that those cheaper NF4 boards are a good idea if you're not overclocking. I've recommended the Chaintech board on several occations. NF4 ultra from a reliable company for $85 after rebate is a great deal.

I also have not had too bad an experience with ECS. I think there are better options, but I've built about 6 or so computers based off ECS motherboards and haven't had any problems.

 

[Fisher999]

Originally posted by: marvs5
My current desktop rig has unexpectedly died on me...Thx in advance for your help and input.

Mary, I just wanted to give you a couple of other less expensive alternatives to the Asus A8N-E mobo I recommended to you earlier.

They include this ECS KN1 Extreme that is a very reasonably priced, feature-rich, nForce4 Ultra board and is currently selling for $102 delivered and, in the SUB $100 class that YOyoYOhowsDAjello referred to , this CHAINTECH VNF4/Ultra for $85 delivered. It is a very popular budget nForce4 Ultra board at this forum but be aware (since you mentioned that you do some video/audio processing which may, depending on the device you use, require FIREWIRE support) that this board does NOT have onboard FIREWIRE support although this Koutech Firewire - PCI adapter for $16 delivered but that adds $16 to the cost of the motherboard (now it's effectively a $101 motherboard) AND it will eat up one of your (3) 32 bit legacy PCI slots, so........

On the just-slightly-higher end of things there are also two excellent nForce4 candidates from MSI and Gigabyte I want to mention.

They are this GIGABYTE GA-K8N Ultra-9 at $143.50 delivered (a feature-rich board with a nice layout and quality Gigabyte name). I also like the idea that this board has a "passive" rather than "active" cooling solution for the nForce4 chip. This can be both a plus and a minus. The minus is that it MAY not dissipate heat as well as an active solution (a HeatSinkFan - HSF) but it has the plus of being much quieter.

The other board I wanted to mention is this very highly-recommended MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum motherboard. This is the board I almost bought in place of the Asus but I eventually decided on the Asus nForce SLI (Asus A8N-SLI) motherboard; I am NOT recommending the Asus A8N-SLI for you however.Again, I hope this has been of some help to you.

Greg

 

[Fisher999]

Originally posted by: marvs5
...Hauppauge PVR-150...q]

Mary I see you use your PC occassionally as a PVR and use the Hauppauge PVR-150.
The new system rig I am building will ALSO be used for that purpose and the Windows MCE edition of the Hauppage PVR-150 over here is high on my list based on a recent review of tv capture cards.

As I have not purchased the item yet, but have ordered my copy of Windows XP Media Center Ediition 2005, I was just wondering what your experience has been with YOUR Hauppage PVR-150 PCI ???

Has it been a good video capture card for you ???

Has it been stable and reliable with good image quality ???

Thanks for answer to these questions!

Greg

 

[Fisher999]

bump!

 

[Fisher999]

Another bumpr for You !!!

 

[marvs5]

Originally posted by: Fisher999
Mary I see you use your PC occassionally as a PVR and use the Hauppauge PVR-150.
The new system rig I am building will ALSO be used for that purpose and the Windows MCE edition of the Hauppage PVR-150 over here is high on my list based on a recent review of tv capture cards.

As I have not purchased the item yet, but have ordered my copy of Windows XP Media Center Ediition 2005, I was just wondering what your experience has been with YOUR Hauppage PVR-150 PCI ???

Has it been a good video capture card for you ???

Has it been stable and reliable with good image quality ???

Thanks for answer to these questions!

Greg

Greg,

First, thank you for your input on my replacement system specs (as well as everyone else). This community is wonderful and anyone else is invited to add additional opinions. Second, just want to correct you on my name...not Mary but MARV (you're not the first person to have made that mistake and surely won't be the last :-D).

Now on to your questions. I had the Hauppauge PVR-150 installed for all of 4 days when my rig decided to die on me. The one or two programs I had recorded prior to the PC's death had one problem...when a high volume noise was recorded on the soundtrack, it made the video "jumpy" (for lack of a better term). I'm sure if I had played around with some of the settings, I would have gotten it fixed. Since I'm seemingly getting a new rig with more horsepower and a better Video card, perhaps that will help too.

Prior to having the Hauppauge, I had a Leadtek card that a friend had given me cheap. It didn't do on-board encoding and after recording for about 5-10 mins, the audio and video tracks would become divergent. Talk about annoying and useless. I posted my problem to the forums on www.byopvr.com and was told by muiltiple people to get the Hauppauge 150, as it is the industry standard. I'm sure if I can't get things to work properly with my 150, the mfr'r will help out.

Thx again.

Marv

 

[Fisher999]

Originally posted by: marvs5

Greg,

First, thank you for your input on my replacement system specs (as well as everyone else). This community is wonderful and anyone else is invited to add additional opinions. Second, just want to correct you on my name...not Mary but MARV (you're not the first person to have made that mistake and surely won't be the last :-D).

Now on to your questions. I had the Hauppauge PVR-150 installed for all of 4 days when my rig decided to die on me. The one or two programs I had recorded prior to the PC's death had one problem...when a high volume noise was recorded on the soundtrack, it made the video "jumpy" (for lack of a better term). I'm sure if I had played around with some of the settings, I would have gotten it fixed. Since I'm seemingly getting a new rig with more horsepower and a better Video card, perhaps that will help too.

Prior to having the Hauppauge, I had a Leadtek card that a friend had given me cheap. It didn't do on-board encoding and after recording for about 5-10 mins, the audio and video tracks would become divergent. Talk about annoying and useless. I posted my problem to the forums on www.byopvr.com and was told by muiltiple people to get the Hauppauge 150, as it is the industry standard. I'm sure if I can't get things to work properly with my 150, the mfr'r will help out.

Thx again.

Marv

Marv: Sorry about getting your name wrong, it's my eyes; the print is so small at this forum and you can't change the font size.

Anyway, you're welcome for the input; it's always fun to try to help someone out here.

Thanks for the input on the Hauppauge PVR-150 !!! I will also take a look over at the webstite you mentioned. THANKS!

Please let us know what components you decide on using for your "upgrade" !



Greg

 

[marvs5]

I placed my order for the new parts, after much research. I pretty much went with what was recommended here.

1. Athlon 64, Venice Core, 3000+
2. Epox EP-9NPA+Ultra Mobo
3. Corsair 1GB (512MB X2) DDR400
4. ASUS RADEON EAX300SE-X/TD/128

They should show up next week and I'll find out if it was the mobo/CPU that failed or if it was the PSU.

I just want to thank everyone again for their recommendations and input. I would have been very lost without it.

Marv

 

[Fisher999]

Originally posted by: marvs5
I placed my order for the new parts, after much research. I pretty much went with what was recommended here.

1. Athlon 64, Venice Core, 3000+
2. Epox EP-9NPA+Ultra Mobo
3. Corsair 1GB (512MB X2) DDR400
4. ASUS RADEON EAX300SE-X/TD/128

They should show up next week and I'll find out if it was the mobo/CPU that failed or if it was the PSU.

I just want to thank everyone again for their recommendations and input. I would have been very lost without it.

Marv

You're Welcome Marv ! Please keep us posted on how things work out for you when the components arrive and you build your new system.

Greg

 

[marvs5]

Well, I hooked everything up and it wouldn't post. The mobo has an error code LED on it and the code displayed is not on the list. So, I'm guessing that the original problem is that the PSU went bad and just isn't supplying enough power. The only other "original" parts are the optical and hard drives and since it never makes it to them, it can't be them. The Vid card and memory are all properly seated. The optical drives' lights come on, as do all the fans and the LEDs on the mobo to indicate that the CPU, Chipset and RAM are getting power...maybe not enough?

Any ideas? Also, if I do need to replace the mobo, is the pick still the Seasonic???