System having difficulty booting

[nmwido]

Specs:
i7-3370K
Powercolor Radeon HD7950
8gb G.Skill Sniper
OCZ Vertex4 128gb
WD 1TB Blue
Seasonic 520w M12II or something like that.
ASRock z77 Extreme6

Hi guys, really need help here. I've been dealing with this for over 2 weeks now, and it's just getting worse.

Basically after shutting down or restarting my PC, it will always fail to boot. I can hear all the fans run and all the LEDs turn on, even the lights for caps luck, numpad, etc and optical drive all blink, but the monitor won't POST, and it gets no signal. I have to power down and power up the PC countless times until it decides to feel bad for me and finally boot. At first, it only took 1 to 3 times of powering it on and off for it to boot, but now, after approximately 2 weeks of suffering, it has gotten ALOT worse. As in it takes around an hour of me turning it on and off before it finally boots, but thankfully it still does eventually... for now. I'm afraid if I let this go any longer it will just stop booting completely.

This started happening the exact same time my system started crashing when it's under load. I would not get a BSOD or a black screen, but a randomly colored crash screen with vertical lines covering it. At first I thought it was the video card, but I'm really not convinced. It can pass Unigine Heaven and OCCT:GPU 3D with zero artifacts and reported errors.

When I start playing a game though, even not-so-taxing ones like Dota 2, it would crash after a few minutes, and the struggle to boot begins. Running the OCCT test for power supply can replicate the crash though, it won't take over 10-15 seconds and it will crash. That lead me to believe it's the PSU, but the thing is, my PC can keep running forever without crashing, even watching netflix 24/7 won't crash it.

Now I'm thinking it's either a dying motherboard or PSU, but I'm an expert at neither of the two. Could it be the motherboard? Or is it even possible that the PSU has degraded over time and it could no longer give enough juice for the system?

I have no overclocks. As a matter of fact, I even tried downclocking the 7950 and turned off turbo boost for the CPU.

I don't mind buying a new mobo or PSU, but I'd like to make sure first of which before I do so. I live in a country where returning/refunding isn't a thing and warranties are a joke.

Any help would be appreciated, I'm literally desperate.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't mind buying a new mobo or PSU, but I'd like to make sure first of which before I do so. I live in a country where returning/refunding isn't a thing and warranties are a joke.

Any help would be appreciated, I'm literally desperate.

That's hard to say. It could be either. Without testing / part swapping, I don't think that you could say for sure which it is. I feel that it could be more likely to be the PSU, if you can do low-power activities like Netflix without crashing, but OCCT PSU test makes it crash in 15 seconds.

Can you take your PC to a shop, or borrow a 500W+ PSU from a friend?

 

[nmwido]

That's hard to say. It could be either. Without testing / part swapping, I don't think that you could say for sure which it is. I feel that it could be more likely to be the PSU, if you can do low-power activities like Netflix without crashing, but OCCT PSU test makes it crash in 15 seconds.

Can you take your PC to a shop, or borrow a 500W+ PSU from a friend?

Unfortunately, I'm the only person among our friends who is remotely a hardware enthusiast, so no.

TBH, I really hope it's the PSU since it's a lot easier and cheaper to replace.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

It may be the graphics card and/or the driver (I originally thought it might be the power supply). Searching for your problem, picks up similar stuff, but it could be a coincidence i.e. it could still be something else.

but a randomly colored crash screen with vertical lines covering it.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2102053/amd-hd7950-system-crashes.html

Basically, the screen crashes and I see vertical lines of varying colours depending on the colour of what was on the screen before the crash. For example if I was playing a game that was mostly displaying something in yellow at the time, the screen would crash and I would see yellow vertical lines. When this happens, sometimes I can still hear game sound and continue chatting on skype, but the pc will not respond or fix itself and as such the lines are there permanently until I hard reset.

A very quick look at the thread seems to say, it could be a driver problem.

 

[VirtualLarry]

A very quick look at the thread seems to say, it could be a driver problem.

Did you read the OP? Failure to BOOT or POST is not a driver problem, it's a hardware problem.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Did you read the OP? Failure to BOOT or POST is not a driver problem, it's a hardware problem.

I've done LOTS of searches, for the OP. Most of them say it was the video driver.

None (that I have seen) say the PSU had gone faulty.

Some say that the PC went into a "deep" crash state, only resolved by a HARD reset.

Has the OP been switching the psu off at the back of the PSU (if available) and/or switching it off at the mains ?

If NOT, then that could explain why.

EDIT:
I've had a PC with vaguely similar symptoms.

Switching it off at the front panel and/or pressing the reset button, would NOT successfully get the PC going again.

I had to either switch it off at the back of the PC, via an on/off switch (off for at least 1 minute), or switch if off at the mains for at least 1 minute. The PC would then work perfectly, until the next "bad crash".

i.e. The hardware of the PC was basically OK. The problem (in my case) was that there was a known incompatibility between the psu and the motherboard, hence the need for the "HARD reset", to restart the PC.

 

[Puffnstuff]

In the past I've had a ps go bad and it exhibited some of the characteristics that you've mentioned in your initial post. If you've got a digital multimeter I would test the rails and see what the voltage is at post, idle and under load to check for swings that could be the cause of your instability. You need to be certain of the cause before you go and throw money at the problem without knowing what it is.

 

[Ketchup]

There is no basis for this "driver problem" thing and it should be off the table.

JIK there are people reading this that don't know, a driver loads during the OS load. It would have no effect on a boot, at all. A driver would cause a game to crash, but not the entire computer to crash, unless the device is on its way out.

The video card or power supply is the right chain of thought IMO.

I do have an experiment for you nmwido. The next time this happens, unplug your hard drive and SSD and see if the computer will POST. If it does not, plug them back in and removed the video card, and see if it will POST plugged into the onboard video connection.

 

[nmwido]

Thanks to all the replies so far, you have no idea how much appreciate all the help!

I'm sorry I forgot to mention on my first post, I've been using Catalyst 14.12 since December 2014 and the crashes only started this 1st week of July. After it started, I've cycled through the 3 latest WHQL drivers so far: 15.7, 14.12, and 14.4 to no avail.

I've tried the PSU switch at the back as well as unplugging from the main outlet. The longest my system has been away from total power is around 3 hours when I had the internals cleaned. Just eliminating possible causes.

I've had this PC for around 2 years now, and it's powered on 24/7 pretty much the whole time. I only turn it off when I'll be away from home for over a day.

I don't have a digital multimeter on hand, unfortunately.

EDIT: Just saw ketchup79's reply. I will try what you said, thank you!

 

[silicon]

Start my trying a different power supply. What about the AC mains? Do you have adequate electricity at the plug?

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

OP: Can I ask a quick question ?

When it goes into its "WON'T BOOT" mode, can you get into the bios screen ? (E.g. F1/del key, or whatever it is with your motherboard) ?

 

[nmwido]

Yes, there's adequate electricity. It's been running perfectly for over 2 years using the same outlet, just started having the problems 1st week of July.

OP: Can I ask a quick question ?

When it goes into its "WON'T BOOT" mode, can you get into the bios screen ? (E.g. F1/del key, or whatever it is with your motherboard) ?

Nope, it does not POST at all. All the LEDs light up and fans spin though. Even the keyboard light for numpad, scroll lock, etc blink.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Nope, it does not POST at all. All the LEDs light up and fans spin though. Even the keyboard light for numpad, scroll lock, etc blink.

Thanks.
I wanted to eliminate it being a possible software issue, if it was trying to start windows, but was hanging or taking ages for some reason.

If you can't even get into the bios screen, immediately after reset or first power switch on, then it sounds like some kind of hardware issue.

(If you had been able to get into the bios screen, then it could have been software).

 

[Steltek]

That model ASRock board has a debug LED on the motherboard for troubleshooting (look at the DRAM slots, move down the board from the DRAM slots towards the CPU socket. The debug LED should be just past the CPU socket between socket and the edge of the motherboard, maybe about an inch off the edge). Is it displaying any codes when the system won't boot (or even when it is up and running)?

 

[PhIlLy ChEeSe]

Vertical lines is a GPU problem(or monitor), the no boot issue is separate. Could be software, like a bad up date of windows etc.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Nope, it does not POST at all. All the LEDs light up and fans spin though. Even the keyboard light for numpad, scroll lock, etc blink.

That's interesting. That suggests POST is getting through low-level keyboard initialization.

If the other poster is correct, and you have a Debug LED on that board, then it should help to track this down.

 

[redzo]

I don't see how you can get through this without testing with a good reliable additional PSU or another power hungry GPU.

I'm thinking that you may try to completely uninstall the GPU and switch to the onboard one. If it behaves the same, then you've eliminated the GPU as a possible problem and you're left with a PSU or motherboard issue.
But if it works using the onboard GPU, you're back on square one. This because by removing the GPU, you've basically cut down the entire system power consumption almost in half. Your PSU might still be malfunctioning, it might work for now simply because the PSU is under less stress/load: this is why I think that it is imperative to find yourself a good functional PSU for testing purposes.

 

[nmwido]

I don't see how you can get through this without testing with a good reliable additional PSU or another power hungry GPU.

I'm thinking that you may try to completely uninstall the GPU and switch to the onboard one. If it behaves the same, then you've eliminated the GPU as a possible problem and you're left with a PSU or motherboard issue.
But if it works using the onboard GPU, you're back on square one. This because by removing the GPU, you've basically cut down the entire system power consumption almost in half. Your PSU might still be malfunctioning, it might work for now simply because the PSU is under less stress/load: this is why I think that it is imperative to find yourself a good functional PSU for testing purposes.

This is EXACTLY my dilemma. Maybe I should just take a gamble, buy a new PSU and hope it fixes everything.

Sorry I haven't been able to do the suggested things posted above yet, been very busy lately, but I'll get to them as soon as I can.

 

[redzo]

You don't have to excuse yourself. You've said it from the beginning. You don't have additional parts for testing and that is it. It's bad luck, nothing else.
Unfortunately, no one can give you a proper diagnostic without additional testing. If you send the pc to one of your local repair shops, the troubleshooting steps are the same and quite easy:

1. Test system behavior by using a different psu. Result: symptom still present.
2. Test system behavior by using a different gpu. Result: symptom still present.
3. Blame the motherboard and continue troubleshooting at motherboard level...

It's too much of a gamble if you ask me. Worst case scenario: you end up with a brand new PSU and experiencing the same problem. I guess that it is up to you.
Safest thing would be to find out the prices at your local computer repair shop and send it there for a proper diagnose. The guys working at the computer repair shop aren't rocket scientists. Things aren't as complicated as they may seem, but without access to components for testing purposes there is not much that you can do

 

[denis280]

Seasonic 520w M12II or something like that.

problem on boot Cant get in bios.this poor psu is going south

 

[SystemVipers]

problem on boot Cant get in bios.this poor psu is going south

I think that the PSU makes the most sense especially since it started with a catastrophic failure, then after that you keep having problems.

have you run the other CPUz tool that shows all your voltages, I think it's called
HWmonitor, I had just about the same thing happening, so when i got it booted i installed the HWmonitor and saw the 5v line was fluctuating badly and changed the power supply, solved the issue.

if you were stressing your video card, like gaming and it kept failing then i would think differently but just my 2c, check those voltages

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I think that the PSU makes the most sense especially since it started with a catastrophic failure, then after that you keep having problems.

have you run the other CPUz tool that shows all your voltages, I think it's called
HWmonitor, I had just about the same thing happening, so when i got it booted i installed the HWmonitor and saw the 5v line was fluctuating badly and changed the power supply, solved the issue.

if you were stressing your video card, like gaming and it kept failing then i would think differently but just my 2c, check those voltages

The power supply does make a lot of sense.

But a number of weeks ago, I had a somewhat similar problem with my computer, and I have a similar (but partly different) video card (HD7870).
tl;dr
My computer (gave the appearance that it) would NOT boot for up to about twenty minutes, or even longer. Probably with a blank/black screen (if I remember correctly), similar to the OP.

My hardware was/is 100% fine, (apart from a loose connection, which I recently fixed, and I don't think is relevant here).

It was traced by me to a software issue, which I fixed, and my computer has been fine, since.

The computer would (on initial switch on), flash its lights and appear to get jammed, with a black screen.

It was "jammed" in the initial stages of windows. I.e. it HAD booted.

That is why I tried to get the OP, to try to get into the bios, to confirm that this is REALLY what is happening. But he is insisting that it won't post, and not apparently trying/listening to what I suggested.

The "sudden" mechanism, is that software updates by Microsoft, and other programs (which automatically keep themselves updated, a number of my programs do this, in some cases asking for permission "new version of this software is available, do you want it ?"), installed on your computer, can suddenly "break it". E.g. Conflict with the video card driver, or something else.

I.e. Cause windows to "jam", on initial start up, and appear as if the computer is broken. Eventually (e.g. twenty minutes later), it finally starts up and goes into windows.

The "blank/black" screen, is windows getting "jammed". The initial post messages can easily be missed, because many modern monitors, take too long to show the initial image, after first going out of power save mode and/or switch on via the front switch of the monitor.

My monitor usually does NOT show post messages (ONLY if the monitor was already on for some reason, even then it is usually TOO slow).

BUT it could still easily be a hardware fault.

I'd prefer the OP, to do some quick checks, so we can confirm this, one way or the other. BEFORE spending money and buying parts, which may not be needed.

I have had my computer "CRASH" while gaming BEFORE I fixed this software conflict/issue. But assumed it was just the usual games crash sometimes thing.

 

[nmwido]

Hey guys, sorry I'm only replying now, still really busy.

@SOFTengCOMPelec, I am sure that it's not getting POST. The LED on the power button of my monitor turns yellow when it detects signal, and it's orange whenever the PC is off or there is no signal detected. It stays orange whenever I power on/reset the PC. I've also tried re-plugging the cable when this happens, it turns yellow for a second to confirm that it's been plugged, and then says "No signal detected" then proceeds to go back to orange. So even if it does indeed POST and I can go to BIOS, the monitor is not displaying it. I really do appreciate all the help you guys are giving me so I'm trying my best to do them and give elaborate feedback.

I have tried the above suggestion of checking the debug LED on the ASRock motherboard, and I got debug code b2. I took the initiative to research around about this and found the majority of people who was having the issue traced it back to a problem in the GPU BIOS. I flipped the bios switch to #2(locked default bios) and gave it a go, and it has GREATLY alleviated the booting problem. I only have to power it on/off or reset 1 or 2 times now and it successfully boots.

The striped vertical lines crash while gaming is still there and unchanged, unfortunately.

This comes as a surprise to me though, as I have NEVER attempted to flash my GPU BIOS. As a matter of fact, I didn't even look into the procedure of flashing it until today.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Hey guys, sorry I'm only replying now, still really busy.

@SOFTengCOMPelec, I am sure that it's not getting POST. The LED on the power button of my monitor turns yellow when it detects signal, and it's orange whenever the PC is off or there is no signal detected. It stays orange whenever I power on/reset the PC. I've also tried re-plugging the cable when this happens, it turns yellow for a second to confirm that it's been plugged, and then says "No signal detected" then proceeds to go back to orange. So even if it does indeed POST and I can go to BIOS, the monitor is not displaying it. I really do appreciate all the help you guys are giving me so I'm trying my best to do them and give elaborate feedback.

I have tried the above suggestion of checking the debug LED on the ASRock motherboard, and I got debug code b2. I took the initiative to research around about this and found the majority of people who was having the issue traced it back to a problem in the GPU BIOS. I flipped the bios switch to #2(locked default bios) and gave it a go, and it has GREATLY alleviated the booting problem. I only have to power it on/off or reset 1 or 2 times now and it successfully boots.

The striped vertical lines crash while gaming is still there and unchanged, unfortunately.

This comes as a surprise to me though, as I have NEVER attempted to flash my GPU BIOS. As a matter of fact, I didn't even look into the procedure of flashing it until today.

You seem to have made lots of progress! The fact that it boots, reasonably reliably now, must be a big relief to you.
I'm glad that you have got much closer to knowing, WHERE during the boot sequence, it is going wrong.

I find that when fixing computers, I can need to come up with many different theories. Which I find are wrong, so I move on to the next one.

Sorry, if I over pressured you, into seeing if it was actually booting (posting) or not. But it did seem, that it was getting there, from your original description. It seems that was NOT too far out, anyway.

I will let others, who have far more experience in graphic card difficulties, than me, advice you here. I did not even know, that graphics cards could be "flashed", now.

 

[nmwido]

Hey everyone. Just wanna update you all and hope this serves as reference if anybody experiences this too.

The video card is the problem. I took it to a local shop with computer technicians specializing in repairing hardware, they said it would take 2-3 working days, and it only has a 50% chance of being repaired successfully, if it fails the card will be unusable.

They explained the process of what they were gonna do, but tbh I didn't really understand most of it, but I'm assuming by my description, some of you already know. It sounds like a shady practice, but the card is already unusable anyway outside internet browsing, so I don't really have anything to lose.