Synthetic oil... Duh... don't they make it from oil???

[Muse]

Never seen this discussed. Just reading Ray M. in the paper, he says it lasts 2x as long as "regular" oil. Cool. Well, I use full synthetic. Ray says regular is from decomposed dinosaurs. I'm huh? Vegetation from umpteen million years ago, right?

But what in the world do they make synthetic oil from? Isn't it oil like most engineered things these days. Maybe I shouldn't say that, but I figure that plastics are all made from oil, right? Polyester, polypropylene, vinyl, Naugahyde, your cross trainers (except for the leather), i.e. what they call rubber these days, your tires, surely they aren't made from those rubber trees growing in Brazil, right? I guess this is a complicated post. Or, maybe it isn't. What's this stuff made from????

 

[pcgeek11]

http://www.mobil1.co.in/academy/what.aspx

There are a lot of gray areas due to marketing practices.

 

[Muse]

Yeah, so it's kind of a misnomer. "Synthetic" oil is just mineral oil (pumped from the ground like all oil) that's been treated, altered, refined, had impurities removed.

And rubber? Are you tires made from oil? Plastics? Of course, plastics is probably a pretty vast area, there's all kinds, right?

This illustration at the site suggest that synthetic oil might for the most part just be more highly refined mineral oil:

 

[pcgeek11]

I do think that synthetic oils are a better product that regular oil due to the extra processing and additive packages that are blended into it.

Tires are a petroleum based product and not real rubber.

 

[Muse]

Yeah, it's all from oil. The only thing synthetic is the advertising.

 

[who?]

Synthetic has no paraffin which makes starting easier in cold weather.

 

[Greenman]

Yeah, it's all from oil. The only thing synthetic is the advertising.

I was once told by a fellow in the industry that they can crack synthetic oil out of natural gas. No idea if it's true.

 

[UsandThem]

I was once told by a fellow in the industry that they can crack synthetic oil out of natural gas. No idea if it's true.

It's possible because I just bought some because it was on sale + MIR rebate, but I haven't used it yet. I never knew it existed until then, but the bottle stated it was made from natural gas.

https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/products/full-synthetic-motor-oils/pennzoil-platinum.html

https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/late...6b2lsLzIwMTZuZXdzbGV0dGVyLz9sb2NhbGU9ZW5fdXM=

 

[uclaLabrat]

It's true, the germans developed a lot chemistry in WWII to facilitate synthesis of oil and gas from coal and natural gas feedstocks (fischer-tropsch and the like) to support their war industry and lack of access to crude oil. Development slowed down I think afterwards but there's still some activity in catalysis research.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I could never understand those resistant to the synthetic availability of motor oil. If you don't buy into it then shut up and eat your damn dino oil. But if someone wants to spend more on their belief then let them do so.

 

[UsandThem]

I could never understand those resistant to the synthetic availability of motor oil. If you don't buy into it then shut up and eat your damn dino oil. But if someone wants to spend more on their belief then let them do so.

From my experience, if a person waits for sales/clearance along with mail in rebates, synthetic can be cheaper than dino oil. For example, I bought 6 quarts of the synthetic Pennzoil above for $18, and there was a $10 rebate, so it only cost me $8 for the oil, and $6 for the filter for a total oil change for $14. Usually Mobil1 always has some type of rebate going on, so I generally buy it when NAPA has it on sale for $3/quart.

Not too bad in my book.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I was using full synthetic oil from the early 1990s. I had read enough since then to know that I can go 10,000 miles between oil changes on synthetic, while conventional motor oil must be replaced after 2,000 to 3,000 miles.

Mechanics would tell me stories disparaging synthetic oil. "It clumps," they would say.

Recently, I had to use a new repair shop because my mechanic of 15 years retired. I told them I wanted synthetic oil, and that I thought my previous mechanic had recommended 40W as opposed to 30W because the car and engine had more than 100,000 miles on the odometer. I told them "use your own judgment," meaning that they could choose 30W or 40W as they saw fit. Instead, they used conventional oil.

So here is the paradox. I only drive the car about 2,500 miles per year, so I have it serviced once annually. And I always get an oil change once a year, even with synthetic oil. But I really think the new (tentative) repair shop owner just wanted to assure that I'd bring the car in after a year's time, given my annual mileage.

You can either leak oil or consume it in a worn engine. Then it's your choice as to whether the extra expense of synthetic oil is feasible when you're continually adding more oil to the crankcase between changes. With my 185,000 mile engine, I do neither. And since I'm still looking for a repair shop for a longer-term business relationship, I really wish they'd used synthetic so I can take my g**d*** time in the search.

 

[Muse]

I have been changing my own oil and filter yearly using Mobil 1 Full Synthetic. This may be overkill. I've been driving under 1000mi/year. Go every other year???

 

[UsandThem]

I have been changing my own oil and filter yearly using Mobil 1 Full Synthetic. This may be overkill. I've been driving under 1000mi/year. Go every other year???

I wouldn't. I'd personally still change it once a year.

Even though you're not driving much, the oil is still exposed to moisture and contaminants over the year. Since you change it yourself, you should be able to buy the Mobil1 when it is on sale with a mail rebate, so you should be able to do it for under $20.

 

[C1]

I normally change my own oil, but sometimes would like to have it done by a maintenance facility. One of my favorite places (Auto West) only deals with synthetic. They use a high quality one-of-a-kind synth that fits pretty much fits all autos. (This keeps their cost down.)

As a result, I was trying to decide whether or not to switch over to the synth, but Ive uncovered that with an older engine (eg, 90K + miles), a switch to synthetic can (but not necessarily) result in producing an oil leak. It is the mineral oil along with detergents that are responsible in that these low viscosity high detergent synth oils can wash away hardened debris which have accumulated in and around old oil seals [eg, crank shaft exit at timing chain cover/housing for damper pulley]. Such debris deposits create a sealing effect that takes up the space between the shaft and the original seal that becomes worn and inflexible due to heat & age.

So, the advice is to just change the regular (Dino) oil more frequently since if it aint broke then dont fix it.

 

[UsandThem]

I normally change my own oil, but sometimes would like to have it done by a maintenance facility. One of my favorite places (Auto West) only deals with synthetic. They use a high quality one-of-a-kind synth that fits pretty much fits all autos. (This keeps their cost down.)

As a result, I was trying to decide whether or not to switch over to the synth, but Ive uncovered that with an older engine (eg, 90K + miles), a switch to synthetic can (but not necessarily) result in producing an oil leak. It is the mineral oil along with detergents that are responsible in that these low viscosity high detergent synth oils can wash away hardened debris which have accumulated in and around old oil seals [eg, crank shaft exit at timing chain cover/housing for damper pulley]. Such debris deposits create a sealing effect that takes up the space between the shaft and the original seal that becomes worn and inflexible due to heat & age.

So, the advice is to just change the regular (Dino) oil more frequently since if it aint broke then dont fix it.

I guess it depends on what condition the engine is in. If a person takes care of their car by changing the oil when recommended, there shouldn't be that much deposits to begin with. All the oils I am aware of (synthetic and dino) have additives for cleaning and for conditioning the seals/gaskets, and the "high-mileage" varieties contain even more of both.

But If someone has a really old car (say from like 2000 or before), I could see them not wanting to use synthetic as engine manufacturing tolerances weren't near as good as they are in modern cars. That said,when it comes down to it, as long as a person changes their oil when they should, and doesn't live in a place with extreme weather conditions like a desert or places with extremely cold temperatures, any oil will be fine.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Looking at posts from Muse and UsAndThem, I lean toward the latter's view. You can always tell yourself that oil-change intervals could be as high as 5,000 or 6,000 miles, in some situation where you might not find more frequent service convenient, but there are always going to be contaminants after driving a few thousand miles. Still, 1,000 miles per year is almost nothing. You could go two years, or even more.

But it pays to give the car a maintenance shakedown annually. You want to be sure the AC is charged up with refrigerant for summer, and keep an eye on the cooling system for any weather. You want to inspect the hoses and replace any that are beginning to leak or showing wear. Fanbelts will stretch and slip over time. My '95 Isuzu Trooper gives me confidence that cars built previous to it needed more frequent tune-up attention. You might want to change the spark plugs and check the spark plug wires.

So it just seems reasonable to change the oil as you go through this annual maintenance cycle. But 1,000 miles per year might require more limited attentions, for instance the AC system.

With an old car, the owner himself should probably study the maintenance plan in the shop manual or the owner's manual, and attempt to follow it.

Old cars will develop oil leaks. It's been my experience that the chemical additives or "stop leak" products actually work, if swelling the seals a little bit will staunch an oil leak. Blue Devil makes a product directed at front and rear engine mainseals, and transmission fluid sources like Valvoline provide a Dexron III transmission sealer. After watching the garage drop pan within the last two weeks, I've concluded that this transmission product also works.

Otherwise, you keep an eye on the dipsticks and top up as necessary in either respect.

 

[WhiteNoise]

I use full synthetic in 3 of my vehicles. My car I use Mobile1 extended 15k high mileage and it states I can go 15k between oil changes. I drive that car a lot since my commute round trip for work is about 100 miles 5 days a week. I change my oil every 6k. I'd love to wait for the 15k mark but I just don't know if I trust any oil that long.

 

[MadScientist]

I have been changing my own oil and filter yearly using Mobil 1 Full Synthetic. This may be overkill. I've been driving under 1000mi/year. Go every other year???

Next time you change it send a sample to Blackstone Labs for analysis. The kit is free the analysis is not. I'm sure after only 1,000 miles you have plenty of life left in your oil. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/?se...abs.net/Bstone/(S(oiv3ys3uv2bt3z55j5kbm455))/
I use Mobil 1 in both my cars. My 2014 Ford Escape tells me when to change the oil. The change oil indicator comes on between 9K and 10K miles.

 

[Muse]

Next time you change it send a sample to Blackstone Labs for analysis. The kit is free the analysis is not. I'm sure after only 1,000 miles you have plenty of life left in your oil. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/?session-id=oiv3ys3uv2bt3z55j5kbm455&timeout=20&bslauth&urlbase=https://www.blackstone-labs.net/Bstone/(S(oiv3ys3uv2bt3z55j5kbm455))/
I use Mobil 1 in both my cars. My 2014 Ford Escape tells me when to change the oil. The change oil indicator comes on between 9K and 10K miles.

I have gotten two of those test kits but didn't send in the samples. How much does it cost to get a sample analyzed?

I went for several years without changing my oil, too long. Then, once I started changing it, I've been religious about it. I don't know what kind of oil I had in there during the long spell... when I changed it it was pretty black, IIRC. But that was probably 7 years ago or so. The 1997 has less than 32,000 miles on it! It runs well, doesn't burn oil, doesn't leak, passes smog tests with flying colors, virtually like a new car AFAIK.

I had the trany oil changed a few years ago by the dealership, had them put in the best new fluid I could buy. I get info from the dealership that they want me to change it but the manual makes no mention of changing transmission fluid, period... ever! It's weird. I had some kind of crazy issue with the trany staying stuck and wouldn't work for a few minutes, which is why I had the oil changed. That was a few years ago. Don't know why that happened, what caused that. It's been behaving in recent times. It's a 1997 Mazda 626LX 4 cylinder, and the trany was made by Ford and is notoriously weak for the weight of the car (2 tons).

 

[MadScientist]

I have gotten two of those test kits but didn't send in the samples. How much does it cost to get a sample analyzed?

Prices are listed on their site. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/tests/tests-price-list/
$28.00 for a Standard Analysis.

 

[pcgeek11]

Then, once I started changing it, I've been religious about it. I don't know what kind of oil I had in there during the long spell... when I changed it it was pretty black, IIRC.

Oil color means nothing...

 

[Muse]

Oil color means nothing...

I think I may have that sample. I figure if I'm going to send a sample in for a $28 analysis I should make it my current oil. Maybe I'll wait another year this time (I usually change every ~Memorial Day) then send in a sample (assuming they'll send me another kit... I've ordered two now and not sent back a sample yet).