Swiss voters reject 6 weeks paid vacation

[Albatross]

http://news.yahoo.com/swiss-voters-reject-6-weeks-paid-vacation-154505325.html

Well,it seems direct democracy requires a special kind of people.Amazing country,I wonder how the French would have voted..:hmm:

 

[ichy]

The worthless lazy Greeks should learn a lesson from this.

 

[Anarchist420]

I'm not surprised since they have a freer economy than the U.S. does. If Obamney is elected again, then the difference will be even larger.

 

[Ausm]

The only way I would get 6 weeks paid vacation is if I was pushing up daises.

 

[Attic]

"In rejecting the initiative, citizens have kept a sense of reality," said Hans-Ulrich Bigler, director of the Swiss Union of Arts and Crafts, which represents around 300,000 businesses. The referendum, he said in a statement, could have added 6 billion francs ($6.52 billion) a year in labor costs to the Swiss economy, but the vote "clearly shows that the population continues to focus on individual freedom and responsibility of citizens."

:thumbsup:

Trying to find the income distribution for Switzerland, it would be another great sign if a country who decides to show this level of responsiblity from its citizens also is able to find a legitmate income distribution for it's population.

 

[Infohawk]

All the conservatives here might want to note the country has four weeks mandatory vacation already. Some European countries have five. Those seem like reasonable amounts, as opposed to the US that has nothing guaranteed. This isn't about differences among European countries. The US is the outlier.

 

[MovingTarget]

:thumbsup:

Trying to find the income distribution for Switzerland, it would be another great sign if a country who decides to show this level of responsiblity from its citizens also is able to find a legitmate income distribution for it's population.

Switzerland still has its problems (at least according to my wife, who is a Swiss citizen), but this is one thing they do have right.

All the conservatives here might want to note the country has four weeks mandatory vacation already. Some European countries have five. Those seem like reasonable amounts, as opposed to the US that has nothing guaranteed. This isn't about differences among European countries. The US is the outlier.

Yeah, we are a clear outlier. Six weeks is excessive, but 3 or 4 weeks paid vacation is perfectly in line with promoting a healthy and productive workforce. Why we don't have this is beyond me. Heck, many of our workers don't even get paid sick days, which is pretty disturbing when you consider the foodservice industries. We can do better than this.

 

[Phokus]

All the conservatives here might want to note the country has four weeks mandatory vacation already. Some European countries have five. Those seem like reasonable amounts, as opposed to the US that has nothing guaranteed. This isn't about differences among European countries. The US is the outlier.

Conservatives aren't happy until the workers are living in mud huts and eating shit from a garbage can. You're preaching to people impervious to reason.

 

[Ninjahedge]

All we have to look at is places like Germany.

Unfortunately, for stuff like that to work, you have to have people who genuinely care about what they are doing. the US is pretty bad about work ethic (I say while ironically posting during work hours...)

 

[Ausm]

All the conservatives here might want to note the country has four weeks mandatory vacation already. Some European countries have five. Those seem like reasonable amounts, as opposed to the US that has nothing guaranteed. This isn't about differences among European countries. The US is the outlier.

In a Republican Utopia, all laborers would be working for less then minimum wage with no benefits at all and when they die...FUCK THEM replace them with another peon. You can't afford healthcare fuck off and die bitch. You get injured at work and can't work the rest of your life...TOUGH SHIT.

They are after all the party of Morality and Compassion(of their own wallet).

 

[MovingTarget]

All we have to look at is places like Germany.

Unfortunately, for stuff like that to work, you have to have people who genuinely care about what they are doing. the US is pretty bad about work ethic (I say while ironically posting during work hours...)

I tend to disagree. I have more faith in the American worker. People say that work ethic is declining, but I see that more as a symptom of the declining reward for our work. We are more productive now than ever, but wages have been stagnant or falling for decades while prices have risen.

 

[Craig234]

I tend to disagree. I have more faith in the American worker. People say that work ethic is declining, but I see that more as a symptom of the declining reward for our work. We are more productive now than ever, but wages have been stagnant or falling for decades while prices have risen.

 

[HumblePie]

I thought the average American middle class worker only got around 2 weeks vacation a year. I know that's been the case for every job I've ever held (except military) or been interviewed for.

 

[OCGuy]

Forcing an employer to give you more paid time off would be infringing on the rights of your employer. You are free to leave your job at any time.

I'm in a position where the harder I work, the more money I make, so I guess I have a different outlook than some of the robots that punch a time-clock and will always make the same amount of money no matter what they accomplish or how much they nef.

 

[Throckmorton]

Forcing an employer to give you more paid time off would be infringing on the rights of your employer. You are free to leave your job at any time.

I'm in a position where the harder I work, the more money I make, so I guess I have a different outlook than some of the robots that punch a time-clock and will always make the same amount of money no matter what they accomplish or how much they nef.

It makes sense to legislate vacation time because it puts all employers on an even playing field. You aren't disadvantaged vs the competition by giving your workers more vacation time.

As it is, the free market has given most salaried Americans 10 days total vacation/sick time per year. It's not negotiable, and of course there's a "lazy" stigma associated with vacation in this country, so who would ask for more? Not to mention, most hourly workers get zero paid vacation.

I never took any actual vacation time when I worked in the private sector. I used it all when I got sick or had to get my car fixed. 10 days is really pathetic.

 

[Ninjahedge]

OCG, it does not work that way 100%.

They have also found that humans need periodic downtime. Just like sleep, if we send too much time working, we burn out (on average, there are exceptions to every case study).

MANY jobs, such as the one my wife now has, are being done on "contracts". Just one way of hiring someone and not paying any benefits whatsoever, and requiring them to take holiday and other time unpaid.

We have fallen a long way from the "work ethic" ages of the 1950s where things like holidays, sick days and vacation were the norm. We are learning all the worst means and methods from the Japanese and Chinese at the expense of our workforce.

Our productivity may have gone up, but what the hell do we produce now?

Insurance statements?

 

[StinkyPinky]

The lack of Labor Laws in the US is disgusting and opens up workers to extreme exploitation during recessions.

 

[OCGuy]

OCG, it does not work that way 100%.

They have also found that humans need periodic downtime. Just like sleep, if we send too much time working, we burn out (on average, there are exceptions to every case study).

OK, so take some un-paid time off for your sanity. I just don't understand the mentality of getting paid for doing nothing. The problem is our sense of entitlement (Welfare, 99 week unemployment, etc), not our over-working.

Even the Swiss are saying "enough is enough."

 

[Ninjahedge]

OK, so take some un-paid time off for your sanity.

You know it does not work that way.

You can look at it like this, when you charge a NiCd battery, you let it charge fully. You do not partially charge it or you will start to develop potential barriers that will reduce the batteries performance.

not a perfect analogy, but hopefully you get the point.

Also, you make the person feel more needed and valued and they, on average, perform better.

You get more milk from a cow you treat nice than one you beat (sans hormones).

I just don't understand the mentality of getting paid for doing nothing. The problem is our sense of entitlement (Welfare, 99 week unemployment, etc), not our over-working.

You are over applying your assertion. You are being paid to be an employee. You are their livestock, if it increases satisfaction, mental and physical health, and devotion to the company, it is to your best interest to keep them happy as an employer.

the only time that "NO VACATION FOR YOU" works is when there is little other choice. That changes very quickly when times improve.

 

[Throckmorton]

OK, so take some un-paid time off for your sanity. I just don't understand the mentality of getting paid for doing nothing. The problem is our sense of entitlement (Welfare, 99 week unemployment, etc), not our over-working.

Even the Swiss are saying "enough is enough."

You can't just take unpaid time off from most jobs. If I made enough money that I could do that, and had the ability to, that would be great. But for most salaried jobs, you can't just take an unpaid vacation. For extenuating circumstances like a disability or whatever, yes, but not a vacation. And who'd pay for your health insurance?

 

[Throckmorton]

the only time that "NO VACATION FOR YOU" works is when there is little other choice. That changes very quickly when times improve.

Actually... no, it doesn't change. Even when times were good Americans only got 10 days/year.

 

[OCGuy]

You can't just take unpaid time off from most jobs. If I made enough money that I could do that, and had the ability to, that would be great. But for most salaried jobs, you can't just take an unpaid vacation. For extenuating circumstances like a disability or whatever, yes, but not a vacation. And who'd pay for your health insurance?

Living pay-check to pay-check is not the fault of the employer. Maybe don't go with the 2 HD DVRs, the unlimited data on your's and your 3 children's cell phones, and maybe stick with the iPad 1 next time.

I'm not trying to act holier-than-thou, believe me, I like to spend what I make as much as the next guy. But if I ever got in trouble due to lack of a nest egg, or needed some time off and couldnt take it because I couldnt support myself, the last person I would lay that on is my employer.

 

[Throckmorton]

Living pay-check to pay-check is not the fault of the employer. Maybe don't go with the 2 HD DVRs, the unlimited data on your's and your 3 children's cell phones, and maybe stick with the iPad 1 next time.

I'm not trying to act holier-than-thou, believe me, I like to spend what I make as much as the next guy. But if I ever got in trouble due to lack of a nest egg, or needed some time off and couldnt take it because I couldnt support myself, the last person I would lay that on is my employer.

But it's not even an option at most jobs. I've never heard of anyone taking unpaid leave for a vacation.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Actually... no, it doesn't change. Even when times were good Americans only got 10 days/year.

My wife gets 0 days per year because they are contracting.

I asked for 3 weeks at my new place (15+ years experience).

People have been given more when the demand is high and supply is not.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Living pay-check to pay-check is not the fault of the employer. Maybe don't go with the 2 HD DVRs, the unlimited data on your's and your 3 children's cell phones, and maybe stick with the iPad 1 next time.

I'm not trying to act holier-than-thou, believe me, I like to spend what I make as much as the next guy. But if I ever got in trouble due to lack of a nest egg, or needed some time off and couldnt take it because I couldnt support myself, the last person I would lay that on is my employer.

Actually, I am more worried about insurance deductibles and retirement accounts.

But if you think I am hoarding DVR's.....