Swiss institute brands latest bin Laden tape a fake

Todd33

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Oct 16, 2003
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http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/29/1038386299712.html

Paris: The latest audiotape statement attributed to Osama bin Laden is not authentic, according to a Swiss research institute.

The Lausanne-based Dalle Molle Institute for Perceptual Artificial Intelligence, IDIAP, said it was 95 per cent certain the tape does not feature bin Laden's voice.

The review of the tape was commissioned by France-2 television and its findings were presented by the institute's director, Professor Herve Bourlard, in a TV report.

Bourlard said the institute compared the voice on the tape, first aired two weeks ago on Al-Jazeera, an Arabic television network, with some 20 earlier recordings attributed to bin Laden.

Bourlard, a voice recognition expert, has worked extensively with the International Computer Science Institute at Berkeley, California. He has also worked as co-editor-in-chief of the Speech Communication journal with ICSI director Nelson Morgan, and as an adviser to the European Commission. He is the author or co-author of 150 research papers and two books.

On its Internet site, the IDIAP describes itself as a semiprivate research institute affiliated with the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, a highly respected organisation, and the University of Geneva. It carries out research in the fields of speech and speaker recognition, computer vision and machine learning.

Officials at the institute could not be reached for comment late today.

US experts have maintained the tape will likely never be fully authenticated because its poor quality defies complete analysis by even the most sophisticated voice print technology.

But US experts who have heard it generally support the conclusion by US law enforcement officials that it probably is bin Laden speaking.

In the tape, the speaker refers to recent terrorist strikes US officials believe are connected to bin Laden's al-Qaeda network. If fully verified, it would provide the first evidence in a year that bin Laden survived US bombing in Afghanistan.

I found it strange that a tape would come out and say everything the right would want it to say. It was very un-Osama like in it's message after all. I guess we'll never know, but it seems that Osama is worth more alive than dead, so even if he is dead we might never know. The boogyman is worth a lot in US politics...
 

RichardE

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Dec 31, 2005
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Is anyone really suprised here... as everyone said, Osama offering a truce..just before Iran jumps in, just didn't seem right.
 

rahvin

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Oct 10, 1999
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The government didn't say it was Osama, they said it was likely him. That statement means they did a regression analysis on the voice and it was close to certified recordings. Doesn't mean it's the end all be all? I should also point out that there a lots of experts, and all of them have opinions and lots of them are wrong. The government could be wrong or the swiss institute guy could be wrong. Not that we will ever know, but I would be suspicious if he wasn't told his conclusion before he analyzed the tape by those paying for the analysis. Unfortunately that isn't uncommon these days.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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Hmm. I was surprised the US declared the tape authentic so quickly.
Are we really in 1984 and is Osama really Goldstein?
 

RichardE

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Originally posted by: rahvin
The government didn't say it was Osama, they said it was likely him. That statement means they did a regression analysis on the voice and it was close to certified recordings. Doesn't mean it's the end all be all? I should also point out that there a lots of experts, and all of them have opinions and lots of them are wrong. The government could be wrong or the swiss institute guy could be wrong. Not that we will ever know, but I would be suspicious if he wasn't told his conclusion before he analyzed the tape by those paying for the analysis. Unfortunately that isn't uncommon these days.

So is the US using the experts that support there opnion.... just like the experts who worked for the tobacco companies saying tobacco was safe, everyone who is everyone has an expert on payroll.
 

Todd33

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Oct 16, 2003
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I had to ask myself "who benefits from this tape?" It certainly wasn't Osama, al Qauda or the radical Islamic movement.
 

ericlp

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Dec 24, 2000
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I think the dude is dead...

But... I find it really funny for the USA to continue to spend billions searching for a dead man. Go bush Go!!!
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: rahvin
The government didn't say it was Osama, they said it was likely him. That statement means they did a regression analysis on the voice and it was close to certified recordings. Doesn't mean it's the end all be all? I should also point out that there a lots of experts, and all of them have opinions and lots of them are wrong. The government could be wrong or the swiss institute guy could be wrong. Not that we will ever know, but I would be suspicious if he wasn't told his conclusion before he analyzed the tape by those paying for the analysis. Unfortunately that isn't uncommon these days.

So is the US using the experts that support there opnion.... just like the experts who worked for the tobacco companies saying tobacco was safe, everyone who is everyone has an expert on payroll.

Great little strawman you put up there.

The US has experts, other's have experts and everyone has an opinion. Some opinions are more credible than others and people can decide who's it is, but I bet most of you jump on the opinion you want to hear and not listen to the actual science of any of it. Not that I don't see that as guaranteed because of the dreadful state of our science education.
 

RichardE

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Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: rahvin
The government didn't say it was Osama, they said it was likely him. That statement means they did a regression analysis on the voice and it was close to certified recordings. Doesn't mean it's the end all be all? I should also point out that there a lots of experts, and all of them have opinions and lots of them are wrong. The government could be wrong or the swiss institute guy could be wrong. Not that we will ever know, but I would be suspicious if he wasn't told his conclusion before he analyzed the tape by those paying for the analysis. Unfortunately that isn't uncommon these days.

So is the US using the experts that support there opnion.... just like the experts who worked for the tobacco companies saying tobacco was safe, everyone who is everyone has an expert on payroll.

Great little strawman you put up there.

The US has experts, other's have experts and everyone has an opinion. Some opinions are more credible than others and people can decide who's it is, but I bet most of you jump on the opinion you want to hear and not listen to the actual science of any of it. Not that I don't see that as guaranteed because of the dreadful state of our science education.


Actually I never stated anything until I heard another side (this one) then made a decision.

Administration which has an interest in him being alive and making a truce so it seems like we are winning the war on terror >>>> They say it is real

University in the same country as administration that has no vested interest either way
>>>> Say it is not real.


Nope, I came to my conclusion not through bandwagon jumping but logical thinking, try it sometime. :)
 

rahvin

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Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: RichardE
Actually I never stated anything until I heard another side (this one) then made a decision.

Administration which has an interest in him being alive and making a truce so it seems like we are winning the war on terror >>>> They say it is real

University in the same country as administration that has no vested interest either way
>>>> Say it is not real.


Nope, I came to my conclusion not through bandwagon jumping but logical thinking, try it sometime. :)

Just as I said, you didn't make an educated decision, you guessed, based on your politics. I don't trust commisioned studies by newspapers in europe that have little difference from tabloids. Hell, I don't trust commisioned studies very much because the industry has turned into I pay you $X and you give me study saying Y, regardless of reality.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
The United States government has a voice morphing technology in its possession...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm
That's one of the first things I thought of when this tape came out the other day.

What gets me is why we're all supposed to be so scared and frightened of big bad binnie when the Propagandist isn't concerned with him. I mean, ol' King George was so concerned about the new tape that he went on vacation to Camp David!
 

RichardE

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Dec 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: RichardE
Actually I never stated anything until I heard another side (this one) then made a decision.

Administration which has an interest in him being alive and making a truce so it seems like we are winning the war on terror >>>> They say it is real

University in the same country as administration that has no vested interest either way
>>>> Say it is not real.


Nope, I came to my conclusion not through bandwagon jumping but logical thinking, try it sometime. :)

Just as I said, you didn't make an educated decision, you guessed, based on your politics. I don't trust commisioned studies by newspapers in europe that have little difference from tabloids. Hell, I don't trust commisioned studies very much because the industry has turned into I pay you $X and you give me study saying Y, regardless of reality.


I would rather trust the guy with credentials...as the guy from Berkley who was helping the Swiss, than a administration who has it in there best interest to lie about him being alive and offering a truce.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Wag The Dog. Not surprising at all considering the Abramoff situation.
 

Votingisanillusion

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I read this info on http://www.911blogger.com recently. It is a site with daily updates on 9/11 research. They just published this related article: http://www.911blogger.com/2006/01/clumsiness-of-new-osama-propaganda.html


Clumsiness of new "Osama" propaganda: sign of increasing Bush administration desperation

Those pesky Canadians. See the original for links to supporting documents:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?...rticle&code=CHI20060125&articleId=1804

Exactly one year ago, in response to a previous bogus "Osama" transmission, I wrote:

"Like previous productions, the tape was conveniently timed to reinforce and invigorate Washington?s expanding war agenda, keep the populations of Western nations fearfully compliant and supportive of the Bush administration?s "war on terrorism", further provoke anti-Western sentiment in the Middle East. Analysis of previous alleged Osama bin Laden videos have been exposed as propaganda, likely produced by operatives of the Bush administration. We can logically conclude that this work is more of the same."

One day after the initial broadcast, Al-Jazeera.com responded with "Bin Laden tapes: fact or fiction?", a piece that questions the authenticity and too-convenient timing of this latest work, correctly suggesting the possibility of a US intelligence/Bush administration "wag the dog". In "Latest Bin Laden Tape: Another of the NeoCons' 'Greatest Hits'", Steve Watson points out, "even the BBC lays this out in the open with the headline "Bin Laden threats may boost Bush":
" ?The commander-in-chief has been under intense pressure in recent weeks, accused of trampling on civil liberties in pursuit of terror suspects. His defence has been that America is a nation at war. So Bin Laden's latest threats to launch new attacks on the US will only serve to underline this argument.

" ?The White House will also cite the tape when trying to convince allies abroad that the use of tough tactics is justified - even when civilians are killed, as in last week's air raid in Pakistan.?

"That just says it all really."
"One of the main objectives of war propaganda is to ?fabricate an enemy?. As anti-war sentiment grows and the political legitimacy of the Bush Administration falters, doubts regarding the existence of this illusive ?outside enemy? must be dispelled.
"Propaganda purports not only to drown the truth but also to ?kill the evidence? on how this ?outside enemy?, namely Osama bin Laden?s Al Qaeda was fabricated and transformed into ?Enemy Number One?. The entire National Security doctrine centers on the existence of an ?outside enemy? which is threatening the Homeland."

Anti-war Left targeted

As this writer previously noted, "if the case can be made that the tapes are, in fact, manufactured by US intelligence agencies, it stands to reason that the words out of the mouth of the Osama image have also been conceived, written and planted by these same agencies. It is therefore foolish to ?read? the tapes without this likely framework in mind?It is not a stretch to expect future bin Laden tapes to issue more specific planted facts about a variety of issues that the Bush administration wants American citizens to oppose. "

Recall that the goal of the last round of "Osama" transmissions sought to ridicule 9/11 "conspiracy theories", and the concept that oil was behind the Anglo-American war of conquest. In this followup, the Bush administration wants Americans, and the entire world, to oppose the anti-war movement. If "Osama" the arch-fiend is talking peace, then peace, of course, is unacceptable.

In a January 21, 2006 piece, "What's Not Right About the Bin Laden Tape", Wayne Madsen cuts to the heart of the Bush propaganda game:

"What's not right about the Osama Bin Laden tape. One thing that the Bush administration does well is manage perceptions of the public. Amid protests over the NSA wiretapping, the extension of the Patriot Act, and the nomination of neo-Fascist Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court, an audio tape on Osama Bin Laden is sent to Al Jazeera. On the tape, Bin Laden suddenly veers from being a traditional right-wing Wahhabi fanatic to the right of the House of Saud to a leftist progressive. The tape by Bin Laden was quickly verified as ?authentic? by a CIA that is now firmly in the grasp of neo-cons under Porter Goss.

"However, the tape is an obvious fake being used by the Bush administration to scare Americans into believing ?Al Qaeda? is making plans for another attack and an attempt to link Bin Laden to Democrats."

Madsen then gets to heart of the fakery:

"The reason the tape is as phony as Niger yellowcake documents and Saddam's weapons of mass destruction is as plain as day. ?Bin Laden? allegedly quotes from the introduction of a book written by long-time Washington, DC progressive author and journalist and a friend of mine, Bill Blum. Bill was once an editor and contributor to Covert Action Quarterly, a magazine devoted to exposing CIA operations like the arming, funding, and training of Bin Laden and his mujaheddin guerrillas during the Afghan-Soviet war.

"The Bush perception managers are either incredibly stupid or are trying to ensnare liberal journalists as aiders and abettors of Al Qaeda, something that is certainly within their scope. Bin Laden allegedly quotes the following passage from Blum's book, Rogue State: "If you (Americans) are sincere in your desire for peace and security, we have answered you. And if Bush decides to carry on with his lies and oppression, then it would be useful for you to read the book Rogue State, which states in its introduction: 'If I were president, I would stop the attacks on the United States: First I would give an apology to all the widows and orphans and those who were tortured. Then I would announce that American interference in the nations of the world has ended once and for all.'" However, this quote is not from Rogue State, again, pointing to a very bad forgery of the Bin Laden audiotape."

Madsen correctly points out that historian Blum?s support for the Soviet war in Afghanistan makes a plug from "Osama" all the more ridiculous:

"So, we're now supposed to believe that Bin Laden has come around to plug the book written by an author who demonstrated that the Soviet cause in Afghanistan was for self-defense and in furtherance of the well-being of the Afghan people and that Bin Laden's and his mujaheddin compatriots' cause was anti-progressive and destabilizing to the central Asian region? This would be laughable if it were not for the fact that the neo-cons are once again using the Big Lie to further their ambitions of global domination and worldwide fascism. The 911 attacks are beginning to look more and more like the Reichstag Fire, both engineered to bring about fascist control."

All signs point not to a transmission out of a mountain cave, but more likely out of Langley, Virginia office, and the desk of amateurish (and frankly, poorly-read) propaganda operatives.
 

Polish3d

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Jul 6, 2005
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Interesting theory, not impossible, but your sig is so melodramatic and stupid it offends.
 

Votingisanillusion

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Originally posted by: Frackal
Interesting theory, not impossible, but your sig is so melodramatic and stupid it offends.

Consuming consumes the Earth. That is not melodramatic. That is absolutely tragic. Do you know your ecological footprint?
http://www.ecologicalfootprint.com/

In 2050 the world's population will border on nine billion people. Developing countries
will have moved closer to a western way of life - thereby increasing their ecological impact.
As for developed countries, they will have a slightly reduced ecological imprint, but the global human ecological imprint in 2050 will be three times greater than the biological capacity of the planet.
Statistics supplied by the UN, FAO (food and agriculture organisation) and the IPCC (intergovernmental panel on climate change)
 

Firebot

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Jul 10, 2005
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I can't believe I'm the only one who is here to point out this ridiculous article dates back to 2002. I've seen this stupid article being linked to the last Bin Laden tape (made in 2006) on several message boards and no one even tries to question the date? I even saw the issue this morning, yet by the time I get back from work it's still unquestioned.

I was gonna link it to prove a point on another message board until I saw it was written in 2002. There are much much better ways to make Bush look bad.
 

Votingisanillusion

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Nov 6, 2004
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Originally posted by: Firebot
I can't believe I'm the only one who is here to point out this ridiculous article dates back to 2002. I've seen this stupid article being linked to the last Bin Laden tape (made in 2006) on several message boards and no one even tries to question the date? I even saw the issue this morning, yet by the time I get back from work it's still unquestioned.

I was gonna link it to prove a point on another message board until I saw it was written in 2002. There are much much better ways to make Bush look bad.

I saw it from the start, like many others I guess. What you failed to see is that it makes things much worse: fraudulent Bin Laden tapes for more than three years!
And please read the article I posted at the top of page 2. It proves the last one is fraudulent too.
And did you know that Al Qaeda is the name of a computer database, not a worldwide terrorist organization? Read on:
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?cont...rticle&code=BUN20051120&articleId=1291

Shortly before his untimely death, former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook told the House of Commons that "Al Qaeda" is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis to funnel guerrillas, arms, and money into Soviet-occupied Afghanistan. Courtesy of World Affairs, a journal based in New Delhi, WMR can bring you an important excerpt from an Apr.-Jun. 2004 article by Pierre-Henry Bunel, a former agent for French military intelligence.