SVC.com has the Swiftech Apogee GT CPU Water Block available now. Just saw it updated on their front page. This is supposed to be the best block available right now. They even had a contest at CES to see if anyone could bring a block that performed better, but I didn't get a chance to go check that out.
Swiftech Apogee GT CPU Water Block
- Thread starter PChang11
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- Sep 28, 2005
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D-tek Fussion PWNed the hell out of it by 5C
Swiftech's comments were: The apogee wasnt mounted properly.
*wish i saw Fuggers face when they said that* BTW fugger is i believe admin over at XS.
Dont get the apogee unless u can get it conciderably cheaper then the D-tek fussion. The fussion even out performs the storm on most single pump layouts.
Swiftech's comments were: The apogee wasnt mounted properly.
*wish i saw Fuggers face when they said that* BTW fugger is i believe admin over at XS.
Dont get the apogee unless u can get it conciderably cheaper then the D-tek fussion. The fussion even out performs the storm on most single pump layouts.
Praxis1452
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Originally posted by: aigomorla
im a 20th century word dependant typist
Retested the apogee beat the Fuzion by 3C.
It depends a crapload on mounting. They used a convex base though. They use a bigger oring which creates a convex base. The convex base is also found on the D-tek.
Originally posted by: Praxis1452
Originally posted by: aigomorla
im a 20th century word dependant typist
Retested the apogee beat the Fuzion by 3C.
It depends a crapload on mounting. They used a convex base though. They use a bigger oring which creates a convex base. The convex base is also found on the D-tek.
Yeah, after they remounted the apoggee GT 25 times they got the rsults they were looking for.
Until i see some more tests, i'm going with the fuZion, because if modified with a jet(for impingement) it's a pretty sure thing it will beat the apogee GT
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Originally posted by: smopoim86
Originally posted by: Praxis1452
Originally posted by: aigomorla
im a 20th century word dependant typist
Retested the apogee beat the Fuzion by 3C.
It depends a crapload on mounting. They used a convex base though. They use a bigger oring which creates a convex base. The convex base is also found on the D-tek.
Yeah, after they remounted the apoggee GT 25 times they got the rsults they were looking for.
Until i see some more tests, i'm going with the fuZion, because if modified with a jet(for impingement) it's a pretty sure thing it will beat the apogee GT
actually theres a whole thread on it at XS. According to some guy, its not fully finished. He says his block. which is almost identical to Dtek's block had a issue with the top. So im basically waiting for that guy to finish his designs, and see if i can aquire a revision top.
Dont get me wrong tho, apogee is a nice block, but as smopoim says, i dont want to have to reseat it quite of few more times to get it to cool right. And if it took swiftech and the guys at XS to mount that thing correctly off the bat, who says we can also.
Blah still tho cathars G7 will toast both blocks... end of store and of comment.
and if someone brought a G5 to that competition or a cascade, im sure swiftech would of just said.. OKEY WE LOST...
If it was modified? Does that mean a chunk of copper is the best water block because it can be modified to transfer heat to the working fluid quicker than any other copper block?Originally posted by: smopoim86
Until i see some more tests, i'm going with the fuZion, because if modified with a jet(for impingement) it's a pretty sure thing it will beat the apogee GTOriginally posted by: Praxis1452
Originally posted by: aigomorla
im a 20th century word dependant typist
Retested the apogee beat the Fuzion by 3C.
It depends a crapload on mounting. They used a convex base though. They use a bigger oring which creates a convex base. The convex base is also found on the D-tek.
No, I'm saying that it's similar to the ddc tops, that could be modified to perform slightly better. The copper wouldn't have to be touched, only put an insert in the inlet to cause an impingement affect.
I'm really only repeating what has been said at XS. If you're interested then read it in the watercooling section.
VinDSL
Diamond Member
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ROFLROFLROFL.... true that, but if they did best a G5, the guys at swiftech would probably get a extremely big ass head. Yeah we bested a 300 dollar block that from a design based 3 yrs ago.
BTW apogee is more closely related to the 5000 series waterblock then the 6000 series. Thats why people say its a leap in evolution BACKWARDS.
also its just a top change, IT changes the discharge properties of the D-TEK fuzion to allow more even flow distribution.
Bah i got my fuzion and its waiting to be dropped on my QX. Im going to move the storm back over to the opty. The storm will stil best an apogee anyday on a dual pump layout with lots of flow pressure though its accelerators when used in a single or dual core cpu.
Praxis1452
Platinum Member
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they remounted it only a few times.. I don't see how you can say 8 times... also the D-tek is $65 whereas the GT is $55. You are biased already since you bought the D-tek. I don't even do watercooling however you are stretching the comments. And btw the G5 still isn't as great cooling quad-cores. I'll look for it but nikh at XS DID TEST a G5 and it pretty much preformed on par with either the D-tek or the Apogee.Originally posted by: aigomorla
ROFLROFLROFL.... true that, but if they did best a G5, the guys at swiftech would probably get a extremely big ass head. Yeah we bested a 300 dollar block that from a design based 3 yrs ago.
BTW apogee is more closely related to the 5000 series waterblock then the 6000 series. Thats why people say its a leap in evolution BACKWARDS.
also its just a top change, IT changes the discharge properties of the D-TEK fuzion to allow more even flow distribution.
Bah i got my fuzion and its waiting to be dropped on my QX. Im going to move the storm back over to the opty. The storm will stil best an apogee anyday on a dual pump layout with lots of flow pressure though its accelerators when used in a single or dual core cpu.
the storm will not best an apogee on a quad-core.
Basically it doesn't matter if they remounted it 10x. Simple fact was it was able to preform better. I think the D-tek block should be given the same respect and therefore allowed it to be mounted over again. STill if out of the 10x the apogee beats the D-tek withy the lowest temperature then it is in fact the better block. Not the simplest nor easiest to use but still the best.
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Originally posted by: Praxis1452
they remounted it only a few times.. I don't see how you can say 8 times... also the D-tek is $65 whereas the GT is $55. You are biased already since you bought the D-tek. I don't even do watercooling however you are stretching the comments. And btw the G5 still isn't as great cooling quad-cores. I'll look for it but nikh at XS DID TEST a G5 and it pretty much preformed on par with either the D-tek or the Apogee.Originally posted by: aigomorla
ROFLROFLROFL.... true that, but if they did best a G5, the guys at swiftech would probably get a extremely big ass head. Yeah we bested a 300 dollar block that from a design based 3 yrs ago.
BTW apogee is more closely related to the 5000 series waterblock then the 6000 series. Thats why people say its a leap in evolution BACKWARDS.
also its just a top change, IT changes the discharge properties of the D-TEK fuzion to allow more even flow distribution.
Bah i got my fuzion and its waiting to be dropped on my QX. Im going to move the storm back over to the opty. The storm will stil best an apogee anyday on a dual pump layout with lots of flow pressure though its accelerators when used in a single or dual core cpu.
the storm will not best an apogee on a quad-core.
Basically it doesn't matter if they remounted it 10x. Simple fact was it was able to preform better. I think the D-tek block should be given the same respect and therefore allowed it to be mounted over again. STill if out of the 10x the apogee beats the D-tek withy the lowest temperature then it is in fact the better block. Not the simplest nor easiest to use but still the best.
No i am not biased about the apogee GT. And the test consulted on the blocks used a single pump of 655 class. You say you have no experience in h2o cooling and yet you dont realize that the storm shows its power under high flow.
And yes the apogee is better at cooling quad cores but and i emphasize but, its not more effective then a storm at cooling dual cores as well as single cores. And the APOGEE uses a low restriction platform while the storm uses a accelerator.
So you cant compare the two blocks to begin with under same loop conditions because, yeah the apogee will even beat a storm in a single pump layout, but once u add the second pump and give it more flow, lets see how badly the results would be flipped.
ALSO putting more flow in a apogee wont help performance that much, but put more flow on a G5 or a storm G4, or even the equallly rare cascade, and you're in a whole different park.
And i am a watercooling veteran, and i have conducted my own tests using storm, apogee, and even the whitewater block. And yes i consistantly read XS for new news on new watercooling products, and everyone still disagree's on the apogee GT design for not mirroring the 6002 block design. Which is more efficient, and could possibly topple a apogeeGT when slight mods to its base structure.
So care to challanage me anymore on a waterblock question?
Better yet, i'll just post my temp on my opty at load for 30 min and lets see if u can mirror it at 60F amibent temps
30min Orthos and 30min RTHDRIBL
i think that shows itself. BTW the block used on that test was a regular APOGEE. I would be getting BETTER temps if i used a storm on my loop. And no i dont think the Apogee GT can beat my storm on a dual pump design unless i was cooling a quad core.
Either way i still think a 6002 would be more efficent at cooling a quad core then the smaller pin based 5002 mockup named APOGEE GT. But why did swiftech chose the 5002 design??
simple GREED = ownage and the Apogee GT is a heck of a lot cheaper to make then a 6002 version.
Praxis1452
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stop trying to guess what I know.
Storm's do preform better under high flow because it's high restriction. Hell why not create a block that creates so much restriction that it cools to 1C above ambient and then say if at 2gpm it will cool to 1C however using most common pumps with say 10-20ft of head can't even reach 2gpm then it's not really a fair comparison. So yes both SHOULD be compared with the same pump. Adding in more variables doesn't justify the current situation with dual die processors which was what I was getting at. I was talking about dual die processors and mentioned that in my post. DO NOT! misconstrue it as single die processors.
the apogee is milled I believe. The 6002 is cast along with the D-tek. CAsting is cheaper than milling btw. If I am wrong pls say so but as far as I can see milling circular pins would be cost prohibitive and it's not cast by Gabe's or BillA's comments.
Greed? On who's part. Swiftech's or D-teks? D-tek seems to cost much less to manufacture yet retails for $10 more. Though I don't actually think $10 means much your argument of greed is quite weak.
Simple fact is the apogee got 3C lower than the D-tek. Simply because they needed to remount it even say 15x doesn't negate the lowest temperature created so long as the ambient temperature remained the same. The D-tek should and will be tested many times along with the Apogee. The D-tek also has less flow restriction than the apogee. Would it be fair for me to say that with 2x MCP655's the apogee would preform better than the D-teks? REally? because that's what you did with the storm. Now I do not know if the apogee gt will be better than the d-tek with 2xMCP655's but that is the same exact example you gave.
Storm's do preform better under high flow because it's high restriction. Hell why not create a block that creates so much restriction that it cools to 1C above ambient and then say if at 2gpm it will cool to 1C however using most common pumps with say 10-20ft of head can't even reach 2gpm then it's not really a fair comparison. So yes both SHOULD be compared with the same pump. Adding in more variables doesn't justify the current situation with dual die processors which was what I was getting at. I was talking about dual die processors and mentioned that in my post. DO NOT! misconstrue it as single die processors.
the apogee is milled I believe. The 6002 is cast along with the D-tek. CAsting is cheaper than milling btw. If I am wrong pls say so but as far as I can see milling circular pins would be cost prohibitive and it's not cast by Gabe's or BillA's comments.
Greed? On who's part. Swiftech's or D-teks? D-tek seems to cost much less to manufacture yet retails for $10 more. Though I don't actually think $10 means much your argument of greed is quite weak.
Simple fact is the apogee got 3C lower than the D-tek. Simply because they needed to remount it even say 15x doesn't negate the lowest temperature created so long as the ambient temperature remained the same. The D-tek should and will be tested many times along with the Apogee. The D-tek also has less flow restriction than the apogee. Would it be fair for me to say that with 2x MCP655's the apogee would preform better than the D-teks? REally? because that's what you did with the storm. Now I do not know if the apogee gt will be better than the d-tek with 2xMCP655's but that is the same exact example you gave.
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Did i ever mention that the dtek block is worth its price? No i didnt, i just used it as a reference on a block which uses a low restriction design like the apogee.
Why did i bring up the dtek block in reference? Because the D-tek is more closely related to the 6002, then the apogee GT is.
Where am i coming up with claims that the 6002 will cool better? Your a XS forum member, do a search. Its spamed all over the place.
So is production cost estimates for each of the two blocks if you do a search on it.
I never said the D-tek block is cheap, i think its a bit pricey for a block, but i think the fuzion is a better investment because its redrafted from ground up instead of made smaller.
And Apogee needed to use D-TEK's mounts to make it cool better. Im sure swiftech probably didnt recall all the KITS out there with the mount modifications. So what are you going to get? A block that performed the same the first time around. Which is lower then the D-tek.
So yeah if i have to spend time to mod the mount for it to perform better then the d-tek, id rather take apart a 6002, drill some extra holes in the base, slap it back on, and guess what.
Apogee GT = pwned. Dont believe me, go back on the search in XS forums.
And I clearly pointed out that a Apogee will cool better then a storm on QUAD CORES. But how many of us actually have a quad core? I do, but i can only think of a handful of others that do. None of my imediate friends own a quad core, so with that in mind, you want the best cooling block for a C2D which is single DIE, Which would you pick?
1 pump loop, id say Storm if its CPU only, or 2 pumps
1 pump loop entire set of components, ApogeeGT or D-tek Fuzion
Did i also mention the mounting system for the APOGEE utter blows. I had mine swaped out with DD's which is so much better.
And how am i streching anything, your the one that first hinted to me streching something so i am mearly defending myself. So i ask for proof on what im streching otherwise your call in shins is utter BS.
BTW i hate it when people call shins or ****** on me thats why im getting defensive, and you even posted you have no works with h2o cooling, so how would you know how real life applications apply? Have you even gotten your hands wet is the better statement to ask.
AND id like to note, i was one of the FIRST people on this forum to state a APOGEE will best a Storm on a single pump layout and guess what??? I GOT FLAMED.... But Guess who got the last laff after XS did a test on it? My statements are usually real life application based because i have worked with these equiptment.
EDIT: I just ordered a Apogee GT and i'll do a full Test on it with my dual pumps and put it against the D-TEK. AND use FACTORY MOUNTS FOR BOTH AND LEAVE BOTH BLOCKS FACTORY
Lets see who wins.
VinDSL
Diamond Member
Flashback...
Originally posted by: VinDSL 01/02/2007 06:45 PM
Heh!
The D-TEK Fuzion @ 0.8 GPM beats the Swiftech Apogee @ 3.0 GPM.
Check the C/Ws...
I hope they have lots of Qpower P180s available @ CES...
Praxis1452
Platinum Member
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I said don't misconsture my statement about quad cores taht I explained earlier to be about single dies. You did in the post that I quoted.
I was not involved in that discussion and did not flame you so therefore it doesn't really affect me.
I only involved the cost of the blocks in order to attack your greed argument. You simply said something like D-tek pwns Apogee when in fact the apogee pwned the D-tek by 3C. That was the only argument second to the clarification that I wanted to bring up.
The point is not the leave both blocks factory. Of course D-tek's mounting probably is better. We should eliminate variables so using D-teks mounting and then a convex base which the D-tek has as well the apogee beat the d-tek. Still the flow rates are much higher with the D-tek. So by eliminating two variables using only d-tek's mounting system AND a convex base the apogee would be crowned. However this is only 1 test. As soon as you get yours and others you can exchange results to provide the final picture.
You sound smug when you say "lets see who wins" however you still leave the two variables that werte eliminated in the previous testing at the show. more variables is NOT better. Stock sure the D-tek will probably do better from what is seen however I'm not even talking about stock. I brough in the 3C improvement from the convex base which IS modified. So don't try to leave out the modified as that was EXACTLY what I was mentioning.
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so i got my apogeeGT and guess what. First off it was premounted in the wrong direction. I had to FLIP it 90 degree's to get the pins orientated with the flow of water.
Standard Apogee mounts came with the block. Ummmm let me mention that the mounts are utter crap. The pin layout is smaller then my original apogee, and i dont notice a convex base on it.
Anyhow as soon as i get some free time up, i'll mount the apogeeGT with my DD mounts to make you happy, and also mount the D-Tek. And then we'll see.
Standard Apogee mounts came with the block. Ummmm let me mention that the mounts are utter crap. The pin layout is smaller then my original apogee, and i dont notice a convex base on it.
Anyhow as soon as i get some free time up, i'll mount the apogeeGT with my DD mounts to make you happy, and also mount the D-Tek. And then we'll see.
Praxis1452
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we'll see what? The apogee needs a new thicker ring to get that convex which you should know if you read XS. The pin layout can be seen to be smaller as any pics showing it easily show the height difference, this should have been preknowledge. As for the pin orientation, swiftech screwed that one up then. Perhaps they've screwed others up as well.
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Duh... which is the whole point im trying to make. Yes i know i need a ring adapter to make the HSF convex which my kit didnt come with. Gabe on XS says they might offer it as a package sometime in the future. D-tek still looking better BTW.
Also i dont think its going to be on my system long when i install it, because im migrating to TEC sometime by my birthday, and neither the Dtek block nor the Apogee GT is very effective in terms of TEC.
Anyhow the blocks still arent installed, i havent had time to go though with it yet, the piping and layout of the QX is getting out of control. I might decide on going 2 pump layout instead of 3, as my TJ-07 is running out of serious room on the bottom.
Im starting to wish i stayed modular with M12, because the OP1000 has way too many freaken connectors i dont need.
VinDSL
Diamond Member
Praxis1452
Platinum Member
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I thought the D-tek could handle a TEC. The tec may be a little bigger than the cooling base by like 1-2mm I think. Still the sides extend out to close to 55.24mm
Unless the OP1000 was going to power a TEC I think you should've stuck with the M12+ but you'd have to sodder wires together in order to power the TEC.
Unless the OP1000 was going to power a TEC I think you should've stuck with the M12+ but you'd have to sodder wires together in order to power the TEC.
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im actually agreeing with you on this statement as well. And yes some say the Dtek block will work, however i honestly dont see exactly how. The flow rates arent nearly as good as the swiftech tec blocks.
And yeah the OP1000 is just rediculous. The reason why i cant get my rig up is because of all the extra non used cables getting everywhere. Not to mention tubing for 3 pumps is simply out of control.
I got the OP1000 more for Bling bling, and cuz i got a bit power greedy. :T Call me human for being greedy.
I was thinkn of powering the TEC's with its own PSU. Thats the biggest impression i get, also to isloate the tec blocks on its own loop. Thats is why i went with the annoying 3 pump design. 1 pump to pump the tec's, the other 2 to pass flow.
Im trying to TEC my system slowly. First start on a waterchiller using 2 hd waterblocks connected to TECs. Then i'll try to grow some balls and bust out the vasaline and dielectric gels to insulate my board. But right now, i dont feel confrotable spreading that crap all over the caps and stuff.
Anyhow, no testing will be involved until i decide on what roadmap i want my QX to be on. My opty is going out to my cousin pretty soon, so i need her running up asap.
Praxis1452
Platinum Member
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If the wires are causing that much trouble, cut out a little bit like maybe a 1"x4" of the bottom of your case a bit in front of the PS then slide the wires under it. If you have casters or room underneath as I think you had a TJ07 it will work. Either tape the wires down underneath or create a little pocket for them to be in. Should work. I believe you'll use the larger cabling so all the small cabling will be right on the bottom. Ugly if you don't create a custom bracket on the bottom but it'll work nonetheless.
Are you TEC cooling the gpu's? the 5002 has better flow? 6002's are harder and harder to find. The 5002 is ok I guess but it seems something that the D-tek would overall cool better if you managed to dissipate all the heat.
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