Swift Boat Veteran for Truth leader claims Kerry was "not under fire" during rescue

[Sheepathon]

Headline ripped from fark. This is still pretty funny, tho.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB9ATWE2YD.html

 

[Red Dawn]

Thurlow said he lost his Bronze Star citation more than 20 years ago. He said he would not authorize release of his military records because he feared the Kerry campaign would discredit him.

LOL, seems like he's doing a good job at that himself:laugh:

 

[Cogman]

Ahh, But there is the clincher, He did not say kerry did not come under fire, What he said is Kerry was not under fire when He rescude the guy from the water.

 

[Todd33]

Thurlow's boat also had three bullet holes it after the action. Thurlow claims Kerry wrote the after action report, but the report is said to be written by at least three people, it covers boats and action that Kerry wasn't witness to. Who to believe... I'll stick to the Navy records and the liars group.

 

[wiin]

CNN: Kerry Will File Legal Challenge to Swift Boat Veterans


Will this lead to the truth and nothing but the truth from kerry?

 

[chess9]

Check out cnn's front page online. They have a poll asking whether you think these guys are acting independently. The "NOs" have it by a large margin. 🙂

I was surfing past Fox yesterday when I saw their bit of fact twisting about this incident. Good grief, how stupid are Fox watchers? Too many cartoons for that bunch....

-Robert

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Thurlow's boat also had three bullet holes it after the action. Thurlow claims Kerry wrote the after action report, but the report is said to be written by at least three people, it covers boats and action that Kerry wasn't witness to. Who to believe... I'll stick to the Navy records and the liars group.

Proof?

No such navy records have been released yet. If these documents are released the swiftvets will go away.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Todd33
Thurlow's boat also had three bullet holes it after the action. Thurlow claims Kerry wrote the after action report, but the report is said to be written by at least three people, it covers boats and action that Kerry wasn't witness to. Who to believe... I'll stick to the Navy records and the liars group.

Proof?

No such navy records have been released yet. If these documents are released the swiftvets will go away.

None or that one? Plenty of the records are public and contradict the swift boat guys. The medical records for the purple heart for exaple. The guy from the Washington Post was talking about the after action report, so I assume he read it. What records are secret?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Todd33
Thurlow's boat also had three bullet holes it after the action. Thurlow claims Kerry wrote the after action report, but the report is said to be written by at least three people, it covers boats and action that Kerry wasn't witness to. Who to believe... I'll stick to the Navy records and the liars group.

Proof?

No such navy records have been released yet. If these documents are released the swiftvets will go away.

None or that one? Plenty of the records are public and contradict the swift boat guys. The medical records for the purple heart for exaple. The guy from the Washington Post was talking about the after action report, so I assume he read it. What records are secret?

Proof of the 3 bullet holes
Proof that the after action report was written by at least 3 people.

You produce these documents, this is over for the swift vets.

 

[Todd33]

MICHAEL DOBBS, ?THE WASHINGTON POST?: There?s no proof of that at all. It?s based on his claim and the claim of some other swift boat veterans that it was John Kerry that wrote the after-action report. In fact, Mr. Thurlow was the senior officer in that particular engagement, so it?s just as possible to suppose that he wrote the action?after-action report as Mr. Kerry. There?s no evidence from the document itself as to who wrote the report. Also...

MATTHEWS: Is it a fair assumption on the part of Mr. Thurlow that it was John Kerry?s words because he was the only one that issued a report, or submitted one, that they would have had to get that information about being under constant enemy fire, automatic weapons fire, et cetera, from the person who filed a report, if no one else did?

DOBBS: I think probably the after-action report could have been the work of several different people, each reporting on what their own boat did. I don?t think that all the language in Mr. Thurlow?s citation could have come from that after-action report, either. And there were many things that Mr. Thurlow was doing that are mentioned in his citation that John Kerry was not in a position to observe.

The after action report is not around or public, who knows. Appartly the citations for at least two bronze stars came from the after action reports. The guy from the post was infering what was in the reports based on the citations.

So even if Kerry wrote one after action report (no proof of that), the enemy fire part of the citation had to come from somewhere and probably agree. The enemy fire part was in Thurlows citation too. So what evidence is there that there was no enemy fire other than Thurlow? I think the burdon of proof is on the Thurlow and the liars, not Kerry, which has two bronze star citations and Rasserman to back him up.

I'm not sure where I heard the three bullets thing, I'll have to look later.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Todd33

MICHAEL DOBBS, ?THE WASHINGTON POST?: There?s no proof of that at all. It?s based on his claim and the claim of some other swift boat veterans that it was John Kerry that wrote the after-action report. In fact, Mr. Thurlow was the senior officer in that particular engagement, so it?s just as possible to suppose that he wrote the action?after-action report as Mr. Kerry. There?s no evidence from the document itself as to who wrote the report. Also...

MATTHEWS: Is it a fair assumption on the part of Mr. Thurlow that it was John Kerry?s words because he was the only one that issued a report, or submitted one, that they would have had to get that information about being under constant enemy fire, automatic weapons fire, et cetera, from the person who filed a report, if no one else did?

DOBBS: I think probably the after-action report could have been the work of several different people, each reporting on what their own boat did. I don?t think that all the language in Mr. Thurlow?s citation could have come from that after-action report, either. And there were many things that Mr. Thurlow was doing that are mentioned in his citation that John Kerry was not in a position to observe.

The after action report is not around or public, who knows. Appartly the citations for at least two bronze stars came from the after action reports. The guy from the post was infering what was in the reports based on the citations.

I'm not sure where I heard the three bullets thing, I'll have to look later.

Kerry could clear all this up by getting these documents released. Or the media could apparently file for this under the freedom of information act. Such documents could kill the swift vets, yet they are not currently plublic.

 

[Todd33]

You assume they exist still. Is there a conspiracy for the Navy to protect Kerry now? O'Neill could have filed to have them released for the book also. Why does the burdon of proof fall on Kerry? Maybe he doesn't want to sink to the level of a smear campaign, he is busy on the stump talking real issues, not crap from 30 years ago.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Todd33
You assume they exist still. Is there a conspiracy for the Navy to protect Kerry now? O'Neill could have filed to have them released for the book also. Why does the burdon of proof fall on Kerry? Maybe he doesn't want to sink to the level of a smear campaign, he is busy on the stump talking real issues, not crap from 30 years ago.

LOL jesus todd you never cease to amaze me. How much of his DNC speech was dedicated to his 4 months of service again?

 

[MrNutz]

Originally posted by: wiin
CNN: Kerry Will File Legal Challenge to Swift Boat Veterans

Will this lead to the truth and nothing but the truth from kerry?

lol... remember he's a politican 😛

Originally posted by: chess9
Check out cnn's front page online. They have a poll asking whether you think these guys are acting independently. The "NOs" have it by a large margin. 🙂

I was surfing past Fox yesterday when I saw their bit of fact twisting about this incident. Good grief, how stupid are Fox watchers? Too many cartoons for that bunch....

-Robert

this one's even better, CNN has a poll... I wonder what kind of people are voting... my guess would be mainly CNN fans. The same people that love opinions but hate to do factual research, AKA Michael Mooron fans. 😀

BTW: Cartoon people don't really exist. Roger Rabbit was fake, that tends to happen in movies.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Todd33
You assume they exist still. Is there a conspiracy for the Navy to protect Kerry now? O'Neill could have filed to have them released for the book also. Why does the burdon of proof fall on Kerry? Maybe he doesn't want to sink to the level of a smear campaign, he is busy on the stump talking real issues, not crap from 30 years ago.

Well I am not sure how one requests anothers military records. Maybe someone else can explain this one.


Release of a couple records would allow Kerry to get back to campaigning on the issues.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Todd33
You assume they exist still. Is there a conspiracy for the Navy to protect Kerry now? O'Neill could have filed to have them released for the book also. Why does the burdon of proof fall on Kerry? Maybe he doesn't want to sink to the level of a smear campaign, he is busy on the stump talking real issues, not crap from 30 years ago.

Well I am not sure how one requests anothers military records. Maybe someone else can explain this one.


Release of a couple records would allow Kerry to get back to campaigning on the issues.

Anyone can file a FOIA request for any federally-maintained record in this case, Kerry's military record). The member himself can file a Privacy Act request for his records. Neither of these ensures an unexpurgated record - the government can and often does fully or partially deny these requests for any of several reasons. I assume Kerry's military record has been requested repeatedly under FOIA by various folks.

As it happens, a huge fire at the St Louis military records depot in the early '80s destroyed a large percentage of the records kept up to that point, though I have no idea whether Kerry's records are among them. I gather they weren't, since many of his records are available on his Web page.

I think the Kerry's-records issue, BTW, is a red herring. Military records are far from all-inclusive, and given the duration of his military career, Kerry's master personnel record (today we call it a Unit Personnel Records Group or UPRG - no idea whether it had the same name 30 years ago) may be tiny. I have been in for nearly 6 years (much longer than Sen Kerry), and mine is a total of maybe 20-40 pages.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Todd33
You assume they exist still. Is there a conspiracy for the Navy to protect Kerry now? O'Neill could have filed to have them released for the book also. Why does the burdon of proof fall on Kerry? Maybe he doesn't want to sink to the level of a smear campaign, he is busy on the stump talking real issues, not crap from 30 years ago.

Well I am not sure how one requests anothers military records. Maybe someone else can explain this one.


Release of a couple records would allow Kerry to get back to campaigning on the issues.

Anyone can file a FOIA request for any federally-maintained record in this case, Kerry's military record). The member himself can file a Privacy Act request for his records. Neither of these ensures an unexpurgated record - the government can and often does fully or partially deny these requests for any of several reasons. I assume Kerry's military record has been requested repeatedly under FOIA by various folks.

As it happens, a huge fire at the St Louis military records depot in the early '80s destroyed a large percentage of the records kept up to that point, though I have no idea whether Kerry's records are among them. I gather they weren't, since many of his records are available on his Web page.

I think the Kerry's-records issue, BTW, is a red herring. Military records are far from all-inclusive, and given the duration of his military career, Kerry's master personnel record (today we call it a Unit Personnel Records Group or UPRG - no idea whether it had the same name 30 years ago) may be tiny. I have been in for nearly 6 years (much longer than Sen Kerry), and mine is a total of maybe 20-40 pages.

I would think there would be more records on citations for awards.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: charrison

I would think there would be more records on citations for awards.

There is a bit more to it, but I don't know that these are maintained after the award is given. There is a RIP requesting the award (which I guess is what would be germane here, but which is not part of the member's personnel record - Kerry wouldn't have access to this), and the award citation itself (which stays in the personnel record), and that's pretty much it.

 

[villager]

Originally posted by: Todd33
You assume they exist still. Is there a conspiracy for the Navy to protect Kerry now? O'Neill could have filed to have them released for the book also. Why does the burdon of proof fall on Kerry? Maybe he doesn't want to sink to the level of a smear campaign, he is busy on the stump talking real issues, not crap from 30 years ago.

I heard now that there was a third bronze star awarded for the engagement along with Kerry and Thurlow and it also says there was enemy fire. This was from Scarborough Country, who seemed pretty skeptical about the Swift Boat after the NY Times article. Wish they put up a name and more information.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: villager

Originally posted by: Todd33
You assume they exist still. Is there a conspiracy for the Navy to protect Kerry now? O'Neill could have filed to have them released for the book also. Why does the burdon of proof fall on Kerry? Maybe he doesn't want to sink to the level of a smear campaign, he is busy on the stump talking real issues, not crap from 30 years ago.

I heard now that there was a third bronze star awarded for the engagement along with Kerry and Thurlow and it also says there was enemy fire. This was from Scarborough Country, who seemed pretty skeptical about the Swift Boat after the NY Times article. Wish they put up a name and more information.

According to the documents on the Kerry website it is R.E. Lambert, RD1.