Swearing / 3rd Commandment explained in detail

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
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In this post:

5 different translations of Exodus 20:7

2 Different translations of Matthew 5: 33-37

2 example/case studies/scenarios

1 Tolkien's story of the Elve's fall from grace, which was a result of one of
them swearing.

I find much disagreement on the meaning of Third commandment.

The Third Commandment:

Exodus 20:7 King James Version (KJV)
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will
not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.


Exodus 20:7 New International Version (NIV)
You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold
anyone guiltless who misuses his name.


Exodus 20:7 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will
not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.

Exodus 20:7: English Standard Version (ESV)
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will
not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

Exodus 20:7 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
Thou dost not take up the name of Jehovah thy God for a vain thing, for
Jehovah acquitteth not him who taketh up His name for a vain thing.




Oaths:

Matthew 5: 33-37 NIV
Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break
your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' But I tell you, Do
not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth,
for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great
King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white
or black. Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond
this comes from the evil one.

Matthew 5: 33-37 KJV
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt
not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's
throne:
Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the
city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair
white or black.
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than
these cometh of evil.



For the sake of illustration, lets examine the case of two men ? let?s call
one Spock and the other Oral.

Spock hates sports, but loves politics, and therefore listens to ?IMUS in the
Morning? because, other than Tim Russert, Imus gets the best politicos on his
show and asks them the hard questions. Spock is more concerned with how Bush
and Kerry are doing in the polls than how Duke and UNC State are doing in the
polls. IMUS, affectionately known as the ?The IMAN,? claims to be Christian,
and in fact contends that Martin Luther King Sr. is the greatest preacher he
has ever heard. The IMAN also has a habit of say, ?Jesus God!? quite often.
While, distasteful, and showing proof of poor judgment, Spock has also often
been heard saying, ?Jesus God!? to which he means, ?I can?t believe it!? To
my knowledge, no one hearing him say that has ever been under the impression
that God was taking requests from him, doing his bidding, or that he
personally was commanding anything to be done in God or anyone?s name at all.

Oral used to be a Pentecostal of the ?Holiness Movement,? but in 1968 became a
United Methodist. One more move in this theological direction, and I am
afraid he will be Anglican ? Horrors! In addition to having a TV show, Oral
claims that he can in fact feel God travel directly down through his right
arm, thus giving him the power to heal! Further more, Located in the center
of Oral Robert's University, he has erected a 200-foot montage called ?The
Tower of Prayer.? When viewed from the side, we can see the profile of a
cross. When viewed from other angles we can see a ?Crown of Thorns? motif,
which represents the suffering of folks who have sent this guy money. Large
parts of the exoskeleton have been constructed with PVP piping, which when
viewed closely we can see, as required by the ASTM, American Society of
Testing Materials, the name of the extruder, their number, the date and time
of the extrusion, and the diameter of the pipe, plainly written in English in
green lettering on the outside. A recording of Oral's son Richard in the
observation deck reveals its construction philosophy: "No second-class
buildings for God." - Can I get an ?Amen?? Oral Roberts ascended to his ?Tower
of Prayer? on the campus of Oral Roberts University saying if he did not raise
$8 million by March 31, 1986 that God would take him away.

I assume the 3rd commandment means:
Do not use God?s name for your own personal purposes, or to frighten folks, or
to give the appearance that you are evoking ?Divine magic,? such as healing
people on television, or speaking for your own purposes using God?s name ? ala
Oral Roberts, ?Send in $8 million or God will take me away.?

There is a second meaning, or implications that I do not quiet fully
understand, but I have seen it illustrated in Tolkien?s Silmarillion. Tolkien
may be taking this from Matthew 5: 33-37 (I think all Christians should The
Silmarillion because it is steeped in Christian beliefs, and illustrates them
in ways that are very illuminating.)

The breaking of the Third Commandment or Matthew 5: 33-37 is precisely the
cause of the fall from grace for the Elves.

1. It causes the Elves to be physically separated from Illuvatar (God)
when they are sent out of Valanor (Eden).

2. It causes the Elves to be Spiritually separated from Illuvatar. They
fear Him, they fear each other, and they are now vulnerable, as a result of
this fear, to be mislead by Morgoth (Satan).

3. It causes the Elves to be scattered all over middle earth, distrusting
each other and fracturing their language (Tower of Babble).

4. It causes the Elves for the first time to kill other Elves.

5. It causes problems not only for Feanor, but also for all of his
descendants.


What did Feanor do?
The Oath of Feanor:
?Then Feanor swore a terrible oath... vowing to pursue with vengeance and
hatred to the ends of the World Vala (Archangels), Demon, Elf or Man as yet
unborn, or any creature, great or small, good or evil, that time should bring
forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a Silmaril from
their possession.?

So, when the Vala ask Feanor for one of the Silmaril?s, as he can not break
his oath, he and all his descendants are Doomed.

Pax,
Glen

 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
I take this commandment to be literal (as well as everything else that is His Word).
If G-d says don't use His name in vain I take it to mean not to associate His holy name with anything unholy.
 

KGB1

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2001
2,998
0
0
holy s... no wonder people fall asleep during mass... even the pope must tired of readin' this sh!t.. and the numerous versions of it... :(
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
The whole "swearing" thing listed in those later passages refers to promises, not vulgarity.

I agree with your description of what the 3rd commandment really means.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81
Originally posted by: zimu
thank you pastor glen for the sermon.

You are welcome.
But it was not really a sermon; I hope.
We could be discussing Vulcan or Hobbit beliefs.
No where in the thread do I try to get anyone to agree that God, Spock, or Frodo really exist.
I am just saying, based upon the book or TV show, I think this is what they mean.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
I take this commandment to be literal (as well as everything else that is His Word).
If G-d says don't use His name in vain I take it to mean not to associate His holy name with anything unholy.
Literal would then mean don't use the word Yahweh, not God.
But, did you even read my post?

 

SaltBoy

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2001
8,975
11
81
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
I take this commandment to be literal (as well as everything else that is His Word).
If G-d says don't use His name in vain I take it to mean not to associate His holy name with anything unholy.
Exactly. It does NOT mean "Thou Shalt Not Use Profanities."

However, it might mean, for example, committing genocide in His name. Holy war. Jihad, etc...

 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81
Originally posted by: KGB
holy s... no wonder people fall asleep during mass... even the pope must tired of readin' this sh!t.. and the numerous versions of it... :(

Oh man, it is not that long. It looks long because half of it are different translations of the verses. It is a very very easy read.

 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
You provide nothing remotely resembling an explanation. Just a list of slightly contradictory definitions and a useless LOTR reference. Without some analysis and commentary you and your post are worthless...
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: glen
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
I take this commandment to be literal (as well as everything else that is His Word).
If G-d says don't use His name in vain I take it to mean not to associate His holy name with anything unholy.
Literal would then mean don't use the word Yahweh, not God.
But, did you even read my post?

The L-RD has many names.
Yes, I did read your post. I found your perspective to be quite interesting. Nice post :)
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
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Originally posted by: Mwilding
You provide nothing remotely resembling an explanation. Just a list of slightly contradictory definitions and a useless LOTR reference. Without some analysis and commentary you and your post are worthless...

And your accusations go without "explanation" so you're just as worthless.
rolleye.gif
Seriously folks, get it together. Just how does the initial post contradict itself hmm?
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Originally posted by: Mwilding
You provide nothing remotely resembling an explanation. Just a list of slightly contradictory definitions and a useless LOTR reference. Without some analysis and commentary you and your post are worthless...

And your accusations go without "explanation" so you're just as worthless.
rolleye.gif
Seriously folks, get it together. Just how does the initial post contradict itself hmm?

I don't believe the OP contradicted himself, but people tend to lash out at things which they hate...
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81
Originally posted by: Mwilding
You provide nothing remotely resembling an explanation. Just a list of slightly contradictory definitions and a useless LOTR reference. Without some analysis and commentary you and your post are worthless...

Did you miss this part? I kind of thought it was commentary:
For the sake of illustration, lets examine the case of two men ? let?s call
one Spock and the other Oral.

Spock hates sports, but loves politics, and therefore listens to ?IMUS in the
Morning? because, other than Tim Russert, Imus gets the best politicos on his
show and asks them the hard questions. Spock is more concerned with how Bush
and Kerry are doing in the polls than how Duke and UNC State are doing in the
polls. IMUS, affectionately known as the ?The IMAN,? claims to be Christian,
and in fact contends that Martin Luther King Sr. is the greatest preacher he
has ever heard. The IMAN also has a habit of say, ?Jesus God!? quite often.
While, distasteful, and showing proof of poor judgment, Spock has also often
been heard saying, ?Jesus God!? to which he means, ?I can?t believe it!? To
my knowledge, no one hearing him say that has ever been under the impression
that God was taking requests from him, doing his bidding, or that he
personally was commanding anything to be done in God or anyone?s name at all.

Oral used to be a Pentecostal of the ?Holiness Movement,? but in 1968 became a
United Methodist. One more move in this theological direction, and I am
afraid he will be Anglican ? Horrors! In addition to having a TV show, Oral
claims that he can in fact feel God travel directly down through his right
arm, thus giving him the power to heal! Further more, Located in the center
of Oral Robert's University, he has erected a 200-foot montage called ?The
Tower of Prayer.? When viewed from the side, we can see the profile of a
cross. When viewed from other angles we can see a ?Crown of Thorns? motif,
which represents the suffering of folks who have sent this guy money. Large
parts of the exoskeleton have been constructed with PVP piping, which when
viewed closely we can see, as required by the ASTM, American Society of
Testing Materials, the name of the extruder, their number, the date and time
of the extrusion, and the diameter of the pipe, plainly written in English in
green lettering on the outside. A recording of Oral's son Richard in the
observation deck reveals its construction philosophy: "No second-class
buildings for God." - Can I get an ?Amen?? Oral Roberts ascended to his ?Tower
of Prayer? on the campus of Oral Roberts University saying if he did not raise
$8 million by March 31, 1986 that God would take him away.

I assume the 3rd commandment means:
Do not use God?s name for your own personal purposes, or to frighten folks, or
to give the appearance that you are evoking ?Divine magic,? such as healing
people on television, or speaking for your own purposes using God?s name ? ala
Oral Roberts, ?Send in $8 million or God will take me away.?

Summary:
1. I am suggesting saying, "Jesus Christ!" when you stub your toe is not breaking the 3rd commandment.

2. I am suggesting saying, "Jesus Christ!" when you stub your toe is maybe going against Matthew 5: 33-37.

3. I am suggesting that when you go on TV asking for money in the name of God, you are breaking the 3rd commandment.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Originally posted by: Mwilding
You provide nothing remotely resembling an explanation. Just a list of slightly contradictory definitions and a useless LOTR reference. Without some analysis and commentary you and your post are worthless...

And your accusations go without "explanation" so you're just as worthless.
rolleye.gif
Seriously folks, get it together. Just how does the initial post contradict itself hmm?

I don't believe the OP contradicted himself, but people tend to lash out at things which they hate...

Or don't understand.
 

rpc64

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2002
2,135
0
0
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: glen
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
I take this commandment to be literal (as well as everything else that is His Word).
If G-d says don't use His name in vain I take it to mean not to associate His holy name with anything unholy.
Literal would then mean don't use the word Yahweh, not God.
But, did you even read my post?

The L-RD has many names.
Yes, I did read your post. I found your perspective to be quite interesting. Nice post :)

Yes nice post Glen. I also found it very interesting. From what I can see, I agree with flyermax and SaltBoy's interpretations. I want to read The Silmarillion now.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Originally posted by: Mwilding
You provide nothing remotely resembling an explanation. Just a list of slightly contradictory definitions and a useless LOTR reference. Without some analysis and commentary you and your post are worthless...

And your accusations go without "explanation" so you're just as worthless.
rolleye.gif
Seriously folks, get it together. Just how does the initial post contradict itself hmm?

I don't believe the OP contradicted himself, but people tend to lash out at things which they hate...

Or don't understand.
or in this case, scrolled past the Spock and Oral part...
:eek:
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: Mwilding
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Originally posted by: Mwilding
You provide nothing remotely resembling an explanation. Just a list of slightly contradictory definitions and a useless LOTR reference. Without some analysis and commentary you and your post are worthless...

And your accusations go without "explanation" so you're just as worthless.
rolleye.gif
Seriously folks, get it together. Just how does the initial post contradict itself hmm?

I don't believe the OP contradicted himself, but people tend to lash out at things which they hate...

Or don't understand.
or in this case, scrolled past the Spock and Oral part...
:eek:

LOL - reminds me of Viper GTS's recent comment IRL about "handlebars" :D :p
 

azazyel

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2000
5,872
1
81
"Take care that you don't flaunt your religion in public to be noticed by others. Otherwise, you will have no recognition for your Father in the heavens."

Math 6:1

"And everyone who utters a word against the son of Adam will be forgiven; but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit won't be forgiven."

Luke 12:10 Also a similar one in Mark 3:28- 29
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81
Originally posted by: rpc64
Yes nice post Glen. I also found it very interesting. From what I can see, I agree with flyermax and SaltBoy's interpretations. I want to read The Silmarillion now.

It is impossible to read.

I can barely get through it on audio.
PM me if you want the audi in mp3 format.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: azazyel
"Take care that you don't flaunt your religion in public to be noticed by others. Otherwise, you will have no recognition for your Father in the heavens."

Math 6:1

"And everyone who utters a word against the son of Adam will be forgiven; but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit won't be forgiven."

Luke 12:10 Also a similar one in Mark 3:28- 29

The first was in reference to how the sanhedron/pharasees used to flaunt their religion by "praying" out on the street corner, yelling, so that everyone will hear how "holy" they are.

The second one is a bit of a controversial subject, even in seminary.
 

amcdonald

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2003
4,012
0
0
Originally posted by: glen
Originally posted by: rpc64
Yes nice post Glen. I also found it very interesting. From what I can see, I agree with flyermax and SaltBoy's interpretations. I want to read The Silmarillion now.

It is impossible to read.

I can barely get through it on audio.
PM me if you want the audi in mp3 format.
Seriously... I tried reading that book in 6th grade because I had read the hobbit & the LOTR books...
I gave up on that book. What a waste of time and horrible writing.
 

azazyel

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2000
5,872
1
81
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

The first was in reference to how the sanhedron/pharasees used to flaunt their religion by "praying" out on the street corner, yelling, so that everyone will hear how "holy" they are.

pharasees, nefs what's the difference?

 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: azazyel
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

The first was in reference to how the sanhedron/pharasees used to flaunt their religion by "praying" out on the street corner, yelling, so that everyone will hear how "holy" they are.

pharasees, nefs what's the difference?

LOL

:beer::D:beer: