swap core2 duo w/ core2 quad without reinstalling?

[ayeco]

I'd like to wait for a core 2 quad, but can't afford to - I need something NOW. Can I build a system around a core 2 duo and later swap it out for a quad without having to reinstall windows? i remember having to reinstall NT when adding an additional processsor.

all this waiting is killing me.

 

[Cooler]

I am not 100% sure that 965 mobos will work with core2 quad .I know most 975bx2 will so I would keep that in mind. Also Core 2 quad will be starting at $500-600 for the 2.4 ghz model.

 

[dexvx]

If it supports Core2 Duo, it'll most likely support Core2 Quad. Many of the Kentsfield ES tests on XS have been with 965 chipsets.

 

[Skott]

I believe the new P5B-E will support it. I heard there is a list (I think its on Intel's site) that lists which current mobos will support Quad core when it comes out. I havent seen the list. Just heard there is one. The mobo manufacturer website will probably have a list too I would think.

 

[ayeco]

Assuming you get a mobo that supports the quad and duo there won't be a need to reinstall, will there? I didn't with my amd dual core (from single), but I don't know much about Intel.

 

[Skott]

I'm going to guess if all you are doing is swapping the proc then, no. But I would go look at Microsoft's website and see if they say anything about it just to make sure. VISTA probably wont have a problem with it since it'll be out after quad core and designed to use it from the gitgo. XP on the otherhand is already in existance before quad so there may be a XP patch to download or something like that.

 

[Nightmare225]

Not gonna be worth the upgrade initially, just to warn you.

 

[RichUK]

Windows will load the correct hardware abstraction layer when you install a different MCP (Multi Core Processor). Obviously you will need an adequate BIOS for this to happen.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: RichUK
Windows will load the correct hardware abstraction layer when you install a different MCP (Multi Core Processor). Obviously you will need an adequate BIOS for this to happen.

Windows will not load the correct HAL and kernel automatically. If you go from a 2 core or 2 processor system to a 4 core or 4 processor system, it will use the same HAL and kernel but it should identify all four cores correctly. HOWEVER, if you install Windows on a single core system (no HT), the system will again keep the current HAL and kernel when you drop in a multi-core processor and it will not correctly identify the second core. You'll need to do a HAL and kernel swap for Windows to identify the second core (this is basically a hack and not supported by MS). Basically Windows only has two options, single processor HAL/Kernel and multi-processor HAL/Kernel and it will not adjust from one to the other on its own.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: RichUK
Windows will load the correct hardware abstraction layer when you install a different MCP (Multi Core Processor). Obviously you will need an adequate BIOS for this to happen.

Windows will not load the correct HAL and kernel automatically. If you go from a 2 core or 2 processor system to a 4 core or 4 processor system, it will use the same HAL and kernel but it should identify all four cores correctly. HOWEVER, if you install Windows on a single core system (no HT), the system will again keep the current HAL and kernel when you drop in a multi-core processor and it will not correctly identify the second core. You'll need to do a HAL and kernel swap for Windows to identify the second core (this is basically a hack and not supported by MS). Basically Windows only has two options, single processor HAL/Kernel and multi-processor HAL/Kernel and it will not adjust from one to the other on its own.

wrong, I have a Socket939 system that I had a single core 3000+ on and I got an x2 3800+ and windows loaded up and told me "found new hardware" and then said "multiprocessor cpu found" and asked me to restart. done

 

[hans007]

i would assume it would work fine.

the 965 boards should all be able to supply plenty of power. all 965 boards can after all support the 965 ee , which draws more power than a core 2 quad anyway.

 

[jose]

Will windows XP sp2 even support quad cores ?

I thought the license was for 2 physical cpu's. If you want quad-core support then you'll have to get Win2003 server.

I would luv to have a quad core system, I could run mozilla, telnet, word, outlook on each their own core.. Just think of the performance boost...

Regards,
Jose

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: RichUK
Windows will load the correct hardware abstraction layer when you install a different MCP (Multi Core Processor). Obviously you will need an adequate BIOS for this to happen.

Windows will not load the correct HAL and kernel automatically. If you go from a 2 core or 2 processor system to a 4 core or 4 processor system, it will use the same HAL and kernel but it should identify all four cores correctly. HOWEVER, if you install Windows on a single core system (no HT), the system will again keep the current HAL and kernel when you drop in a multi-core processor and it will not correctly identify the second core. You'll need to do a HAL and kernel swap for Windows to identify the second core (this is basically a hack and not supported by MS). Basically Windows only has two options, single processor HAL/Kernel and multi-processor HAL/Kernel and it will not adjust from one to the other on its own.

wrong, I have a Socket939 system that I had a single core 3000+ on and I got an x2 3800+ and windows loaded up and told me "found new hardware" and then said "multiprocessor cpu found" and asked me to restart. done

Oh, there is nothing wrong about it. It is WELL documented that Windows XP will not just swap out HALs on its own. Either you had a multi-CPU HAL loaded when you installed Windows XP (it will just identify one CPU if that is all you have, but it will run very inefficiently) or you had the correct HAL loaded at install (single CPU HAL), and now only have use of one core. A few questions for you:

1. Does task manager show 2 processors now?
2. In device manager, under Computer, what ACPI are you showing?

 

[VooDooAddict]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225
Not gonna be worth the upgrade initially, just to warn you.

That all depends on his use for it.

Gaming - You are probably right, Initially no benefit

Dev - Could be useful

VMWare - Will be useful

Video Encoding - Definetly be useful

Or someone like me who does all of the above - Heavenly

 

[VooDooAddict]

Originally posted by: jose
Will windows XP sp2 even support quad cores ?

I thought the license was for 2 physical cpu's. If you want quad-core support then you'll have to get Win2003 server.

I would luv to have a quad core system, I could run mozilla, telnet, word, outlook on each their own core.. Just think of the performance boost...

Regards,
Jose

I've got XP showing 4 Processors on my Dual Xeon (w/HT) rig. I'm also pretty sure that acording to Microsoft's revised licening for multicore CPUs that the limit on on sockets, not cores.

I.E. Even a dual CPU Quad-Core Xeon should still fit the licence as it's only 2 sockets. If XP can fathom 8 Cores though ... that's another story all together.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: jose
Will windows XP sp2 even support quad cores ?

I thought the license was for 2 physical cpu's. If you want quad-core support then you'll have to get Win2003 server.

I would luv to have a quad core system, I could run mozilla, telnet, word, outlook on each their own core.. Just think of the performance boost...

Regards,
Jose

Fortunately, Microsoft is very leniant on this, not like Nazi Sun and Oracle. Microsoft is based on per socket, not per core. Even though XP Home is only 1 socket, if you had a 16 core CPU in that socket, it will support all 16 cores. XP Pro is limited to 2 sockets.

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: RichUK
Windows will load the correct hardware abstraction layer when you install a different MCP (Multi Core Processor). Obviously you will need an adequate BIOS for this to happen.

Windows will not load the correct HAL and kernel automatically. If you go from a 2 core or 2 processor system to a 4 core or 4 processor system, it will use the same HAL and kernel but it should identify all four cores correctly. HOWEVER, if you install Windows on a single core system (no HT), the system will again keep the current HAL and kernel when you drop in a multi-core processor and it will not correctly identify the second core. You'll need to do a HAL and kernel swap for Windows to identify the second core (this is basically a hack and not supported by MS). Basically Windows only has two options, single processor HAL/Kernel and multi-processor HAL/Kernel and it will not adjust from one to the other on its own.

wrong, I have a Socket939 system that I had a single core 3000+ on and I got an x2 3800+ and windows loaded up and told me "found new hardware" and then said "multiprocessor cpu found" and asked me to restart. done

Oh, there is nothing wrong about it. It is WELL documented that Windows XP will not just swap out HALs on its own. Either you had a multi-CPU HAL loaded when you installed Windows XP (it will just identify one CPU if that is all you have, but it will run very inefficiently) or you had the correct HAL loaded at install (single CPU HAL), and now only have use of one core. A few questions for you:

1. Does task manager show 2 processors now?
2. In device manager, under Computer, what ACPI are you showing?

Jack you're wrong, sorry. cmdrdredd provided a perfect example, one that i have experienced myself too. Going from a Winchester 3500+ to a dual core Opteron 165. Windows xp will update the HAL, this, has been well documented.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: RichUK
Windows will load the correct hardware abstraction layer when you install a different MCP (Multi Core Processor). Obviously you will need an adequate BIOS for this to happen.

Windows will not load the correct HAL and kernel automatically. If you go from a 2 core or 2 processor system to a 4 core or 4 processor system, it will use the same HAL and kernel but it should identify all four cores correctly. HOWEVER, if you install Windows on a single core system (no HT), the system will again keep the current HAL and kernel when you drop in a multi-core processor and it will not correctly identify the second core. You'll need to do a HAL and kernel swap for Windows to identify the second core (this is basically a hack and not supported by MS). Basically Windows only has two options, single processor HAL/Kernel and multi-processor HAL/Kernel and it will not adjust from one to the other on its own.

wrong, I have a Socket939 system that I had a single core 3000+ on and I got an x2 3800+ and windows loaded up and told me "found new hardware" and then said "multiprocessor cpu found" and asked me to restart. done

Oh, there is nothing wrong about it. It is WELL documented that Windows XP will not just swap out HALs on its own. Either you had a multi-CPU HAL loaded when you installed Windows XP (it will just identify one CPU if that is all you have, but it will run very inefficiently) or you had the correct HAL loaded at install (single CPU HAL), and now only have use of one core. A few questions for you:

1. Does task manager show 2 processors now?
2. In device manager, under Computer, what ACPI are you showing?

Jack you're wrong, sorry. cmdrdredd provided a perfect example, one that i have experienced myself too. Going from a Winchester 3500+ to a dual core Opteron 165. Windows xp will update the HAL, this, has been well documented.

Rich, I'd like you to answer the questions I posed to cmd. Can you answer those for me? Also, when you say it changed HALs, what do you mean by that? How do you know it changed HALs? Simply identifying two processors instead of one doesn't mean it changed HALs.

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: RichUK
Windows will load the correct hardware abstraction layer when you install a different MCP (Multi Core Processor). Obviously you will need an adequate BIOS for this to happen.

Windows will not load the correct HAL and kernel automatically. If you go from a 2 core or 2 processor system to a 4 core or 4 processor system, it will use the same HAL and kernel but it should identify all four cores correctly. HOWEVER, if you install Windows on a single core system (no HT), the system will again keep the current HAL and kernel when you drop in a multi-core processor and it will not correctly identify the second core. You'll need to do a HAL and kernel swap for Windows to identify the second core (this is basically a hack and not supported by MS). Basically Windows only has two options, single processor HAL/Kernel and multi-processor HAL/Kernel and it will not adjust from one to the other on its own.

wrong, I have a Socket939 system that I had a single core 3000+ on and I got an x2 3800+ and windows loaded up and told me "found new hardware" and then said "multiprocessor cpu found" and asked me to restart. done

Oh, there is nothing wrong about it. It is WELL documented that Windows XP will not just swap out HALs on its own. Either you had a multi-CPU HAL loaded when you installed Windows XP (it will just identify one CPU if that is all you have, but it will run very inefficiently) or you had the correct HAL loaded at install (single CPU HAL), and now only have use of one core. A few questions for you:

1. Does task manager show 2 processors now?
2. In device manager, under Computer, what ACPI are you showing?

Jack you're wrong, sorry. cmdrdredd provided a perfect example, one that i have experienced myself too. Going from a Winchester 3500+ to a dual core Opteron 165. Windows xp will update the HAL, this, has been well documented.

Rich, I'd like you to answer the questions I posed to cmd. Can you answer those for me? Also, when you say it changed HALs, what do you mean by that? How do you know it changed HALs? Simply identifying two processors instead of one doesn't mean it changed HALs.

1. Yes. However people did receive issues but this was down to an incorrect BIOS rev.
2. I'm on my laptop right now, but I remember checking and it did reflect a multi core ACPI.


Using a different HAL (multi core hal) simply allows the windows scheduler to spawn more than one thread, as windows is the main platform which every application runs on.

Changing the HAL allows the kernel to still operate no matter how many cores are used.

HAL = Driver, The bottom line is, windows updates the driver/HAL automatically.

Jack you also mention inefficiency, I am confused. Because windows will either utilise the second core or it will not, there is no medium.

I did notice however when changing back to a single core the HAL would not change back to reflect a single (uni) processor ACPI HAL.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: RichUK
1. Yes. However people did receive issues but this was down to an incorrect BIOS rev.
2. I'm on my laptop right now, but I remember checking and it did reflect a multi core ACPI.


Using a different HAL (multi core hal) simply allows the windows scheduler to spawn more than one thread, as windows is the main platform which every application runs on.

Changing the HAL allows the kernel to still operate no matter how many cores are used.

HAL = Driver, The bottom line is, windows updates the driver/HAL automatically.

Jack you also mention inefficiency, I am confused. Because windows will either utilise the second core or it will not, there is no medium.

I did notice however when changing back to a single core the HAL would not change back to reflect a single (uni) processor ACPI HAL. However there was no performance loss as you claim.

You know, I did a little digging and found this:

"On Windows XP and later versions, the ACPI Uniprocessor HAL and the MPS Uniprocessor HAL recognize the existence of more than one processor and report the MP ID. Plug and Play detects that the computer devnode's hardware ID list has changed and moves the devnode back through the "found new hardware" detection process. Therefore, when you add a second processor, the MP files (HAL and kernels) are automatically installed, and you do not have to manually update the driver in Device Manager."

I apologize for the inaccurate information. The machines I used always had "Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC" HAL loaded (the most flexible HAL) and that is the HAL that will not update automatically. However, if you are using a desktop machine it will most likely be using the "ACPI Uniprocessor PC" HAL, and Windows XP looks like it will update itself to the "ACPI Multiprocessor PC" HAL. But as you found out, it will not revert back. It is also not a full proof method. Some people's Windows XP install updates it, some people's don't. But even if it doesn't automatically install the correct HAL, you can always (well usually) install it manually. Just as long as it is an ACPI HAL you're switching between.

And you'd have to ask me about the performance issue when using a MP HAL on a UP machine. I read the MS article a loong time ago, so let me see if I can dig it up.

I am wondering one thing though, for the people with the 939 boards, was a multi processor HAL installed when using a single core processor? Since the HAL is dependent on the BIOS, I'm wondering if Windows XP doesn't just install the MP HAL right off the bat.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: RichUK
Windows will load the correct hardware abstraction layer when you install a different MCP (Multi Core Processor). Obviously you will need an adequate BIOS for this to happen.

Windows will not load the correct HAL and kernel automatically. If you go from a 2 core or 2 processor system to a 4 core or 4 processor system, it will use the same HAL and kernel but it should identify all four cores correctly. HOWEVER, if you install Windows on a single core system (no HT), the system will again keep the current HAL and kernel when you drop in a multi-core processor and it will not correctly identify the second core. You'll need to do a HAL and kernel swap for Windows to identify the second core (this is basically a hack and not supported by MS). Basically Windows only has two options, single processor HAL/Kernel and multi-processor HAL/Kernel and it will not adjust from one to the other on its own.

wrong, I have a Socket939 system that I had a single core 3000+ on and I got an x2 3800+ and windows loaded up and told me "found new hardware" and then said "multiprocessor cpu found" and asked me to restart. done

Oh, there is nothing wrong about it. It is WELL documented that Windows XP will not just swap out HALs on its own. Either you had a multi-CPU HAL loaded when you installed Windows XP (it will just identify one CPU if that is all you have, but it will run very inefficiently) or you had the correct HAL loaded at install (single CPU HAL), and now only have use of one core. A few questions for you:

1. Does task manager show 2 processors now?
2. In device manager, under Computer, what ACPI are you showing?

Ok so I'm an idiot because it shows 2 cores in task manager (yeah I forgot to look there because I'm an idiot to you). WindowsXP Pro WILL AND DID chance from a single CPU install to a multiprocessor environment with a simple swap of the chip.

I'm not sure where you get your question "did a multiprocessor HAL get installed?" because when you install windows it searches for your hardware and installs drivers accordingly...therefor there's no reason to ask if a multiprocessor HAl was loaded initially since Windows saw 1 CPU and installed that driver. Then as you have said it will update with a dual core cpu added. However, it won't revert back to single if you swap out a dual core for a single core.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Ok so I'm an idiot because it shows 2 cores in task manager (yeah I forgot to look there because I'm an idiot to you). You're full of crap here and I'm not afraid to say it. WindowsXP Pro WILL AND DID chance from a single CPU install to a multiprocessor environment with a simple swap of the chip.

First off, I never called you an idiot (you did that yourself), I just asked you two simple questions. Rich had no problems answering them. I further explained myself in the post above that apparently either you did not read, or have a problem comprehending. I've already explained how the HAL may have been updated.

Now I suggest losing the attitude.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Ok so I'm an idiot because it shows 2 cores in task manager (yeah I forgot to look there because I'm an idiot to you). You're full of crap here and I'm not afraid to say it. WindowsXP Pro WILL AND DID chance from a single CPU install to a multiprocessor environment with a simple swap of the chip.

First off, I never called you an idiot (you did that yourself), I just asked you two simple questions. Rich had no problems answering them. I further explained myself in the post above that apparently either you did not read, or have a problem comprehending. I've already explained how the HAL may have been updated.

Now I suggest losing the attitude.

I suggest more reading and maybe don't assume that everyone is wrong.

Of course everything you read on the internet is true right?

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I'm not sure where you get your question "did a multiprocessor HAL get installed?" because when you install windows it searches for your hardware and installs drivers accordingly...therefor there's no reason to ask if a multiprocessor HAl was loaded initially since Windows saw 1 CPU and installed that driver. Then as you have said it will update with a dual core cpu added. However, it won't revert back to single if you swap out a dual core for a single core.

You're right. Windows XP should install the Uniprocessor HAL (ACPI Uniprocessor PC) with a single processor. And like I stated above, that HAL can be updated to a multi-processor HAL automatically. It has been reported by some that Windows XP didn't update itself on its own, but those were people using Compaq/HP systems and may have something to do with the BIOS. But, if for some reason you would need to revert back to a single processor (enable/disable HT on an Intel CPU), Windows will not down grade teh HAL to a Uniprocessor HAL. Which is fine for most people, as they most likely won't go back to a single processor after installing a dual core or multi processor.

I think the problem comes in when Windows installs the ACPI PC HAL. From my experience (and I 've tried this on SEVERAL systems), it will not automatically update the HAL. You'll have to manually update it to a MP ACPI HAL. For people that may not know, there are 3 ACPI HALs:

1. Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC
2. ACPI Uniprocessor PC
3. ACPI Multiprocessor PC

The ONLY time Windows XP looks like it will update the HAL is if you go from 2 to 3. If you have option 1 loaded, you'll most likely have to do a manually update for multi core/processor support.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I'm not sure where you get your question "did a multiprocessor HAL get installed?" because when you install windows it searches for your hardware and installs drivers accordingly...therefor there's no reason to ask if a multiprocessor HAl was loaded initially since Windows saw 1 CPU and installed that driver. Then as you have said it will update with a dual core cpu added. However, it won't revert back to single if you swap out a dual core for a single core.

You're right. Windows XP should install the Uniprocessor HAL (ACPI Uniprocessor PC) with a single processor. And like I stated above, that HAL can be updated to a multi-processor HAL automatically. It has been reported by some that Windows XP didn't update itself on its own, but those were people using Compaq/HP systems and may have something to do with the BIOS. But, if for some reason you would need to revert back to a single processor (enable/disable HT on an Intel CPU), Windows will not down grade teh HAL to a Uniprocessor HAL. Which is fine for most people, as they most likely won't go back to a single processor after installing a dual core or multi processor.

I think the problem comes in when Windows installs the ACPI PC HAL. From my experience (and I 've tried this on SEVERAL systems), it will not automatically update the HAL. You'll have to manually update it to a MP ACPI HAL. For people that may not know, there are 3 ACPI HALs:

1. Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC
2. ACPI Uniprocessor PC
3. ACPI Multiprocessor PC

The ONLY time Windows XP looks like it will update the HAL is if you go from 2 to 3. If you have option 1 loaded, you'll most likely have to do a manually update for multi core/processor support.

Yeah, but nobody just installing XP Home or Pro should have option 1 loaded at all really...I've never seen it and I've done 100s of installs since XP was released.