SUV vs SUV

[thescreensavers]

Car 1(Diesel)


Maximum power 224.1 PS (221.0 bhp) (164.8 kW)

Specific output 74 bhp/litre
1.21 bhp/cu in
Maximum torque 510.0 Nm (376 ft·lb) (52 kgm)
@ 1600-2800 rpm
bmep 2145.6 kPa (311.2 psi)
Specific torque 170.74 Nm/litre
97.36 bhp/ton

Bore x Stroke: Not Listed
Compression Ratio: 17.7:1
Displacement: 182 Ci / 2987 Cc
Final Drive Ratio: 2.92:1
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating : 6,305 Pounds
Horsepower: 215 HP @ 4,000 RPM Diesel
Payload Capacity: 1,635 Pounds
Torque: 398 Pounds Per Feet @ 1,600 RPM
Curb Weight: 5092 lbs
Towing capacity: 4620 pounds

Drag coefficient 0.310
Frontal area 2.74 m2
Cx 0.85


Top gear ratio 0.73
Final drive ratio 2.92

VS

Car 2

Maximum power 279.8 PS (276.0 bhp) (205.8 kW)
@ 6200 rpm
Specific output 76.7 bhp/litre
1.26 bhp/cu in
Maximum torque 360.0 Nm (266 ft·lb) (36.7 kgm)
@ 2500-5000 rpm
bmep 1257.3 kPa (182.4 psi)
Specific torque 100.06 Nm/litre
125.17 bhp/ton

Bore x Stroke: 3.50 x 3.80 Inches
Compression Ratio: 12.0:1
Displacement: 220 Ci / 3597 Cc
Final Drive Ratio: 4.56:1
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating :6,328 Pounds
Horsepower: 280 HP @ 6,200 RPM
Payload Capacity: 1,279 Pounds
Torque: 266 Pounds Per Feet @ 2,750 RPM
Towing Capacity: 5,500 Pounds
Curb weight: 4950 lb

Drag coefficient 0.370
Frontal area 2.87 m2
Cx 1.06


Top gear ratio 0.69
Final drive ratio 4.56

On a pure straight away from dead stop to 100 What are the estimated results on who will win the race. Car 1 or Car 2. Just having an argument with a friend between two cars in about the same class on who will win in a race.

Edit More info

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I'd guess that #2 would win in a race unless it was who can go the furthest on a tank of gas. In both cases, that's a pretty small engine for a very heavy vehicle.

Edit:
Let me guess, ML320 and Q7?

 

[DivideBYZero]

Would call it about the same to 60, but to 100 I would have to say it will be the Gasoline powered vehicle.

 

[Arkaign]

Wow. That's not a question of which is faster. It's a question of which is less agonizingly slow

Gearing will make a big difference here.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Wow. That's not a question of which is faster. It's a question of which is less agonizingly slow

Gearing will make a big difference here.

Well, note that he said GVWR not curb weights which are a couple thousand lower. But the first does the 1/4 in high 16s while the second does it in low 15s.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Wow. That's not a question of which is faster. It's a question of which is less agonizingly slow

Gearing will make a big difference here.

Well, note that he said GVWR not curb weights which are a couple thousand lower. But the first does the 1/4 in high 16s while the second does it in low 15s.

Ah Yeah that'll make a difference. 280hp with 6,000lb+ is bad. 280hp with ~4,000lb, not so bad at all really.

 

[thescreensavers]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Wow. That's not a question of which is faster. It's a question of which is less agonizingly slow

Gearing will make a big difference here.

The thing is I can find the gearing of one of the vehicals but I cant for the other

Gearing for Car 2 is

First Gear Ratio: 4.15 - Second Gear Ratio: 2.37 - Third Gear Ratio: 1.56 - Fourth Gear Ratio: 1.16 - Fifth Gear Ratio: 0.86 - Sixth Gear Ratio: 0.69 - Final Drive Axle Ratio: 4.32

For Car 1 I cant find any info on it, its all "TBD"

 

[Zenmervolt]

It all depends on the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear ratios, which aren't listed.

That said, car 2 is probably slightly faster if they are both empty, but car 1 will tow much better and will probably be about as fast regardless of whether it's empty or full while car 2 will likely slow significantly when loaded.

EDIT: Just FYI

- Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, not ratio.
- Pound-Feet, not "pounds per foot".

ZV

 

[thescreensavers]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
It all depends on the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear ratios, which aren't listed.

That said, car 2 is probably slightly faster if they are both empty, but car 1 will tow much better and will probably be about as fast regardless of whether it's empty or full while car 2 will likely slow significantly when loaded.

EDIT: Just FYI

- Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, not ratio.
- Pound-Feet, not "pounds per foot".

ZV

This is just copied from a site ill fix it

 

[LS21]

97.36 bhp/ton
125.17 bhp/ton

easy for me. most of the time, gearing should be such that they optimize an engines power curve. frontal area & cod wont get into play unless maybe youre talking 60-120 race. its gonna be car #2 90% of the time

 

[Pacfanweb]

Car 2. It's lighter and has a far lower rear end gear. The diesel has more torque, but the gas engine will still run away from it.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Let me guess, ML320 and Q7?

Yep you got it

 

[LTC8K6]

My Grand Cherokee 4X4 with a ~4600lb curb weight and 330hp/375tq does 0-60 in under 7 seconds, for reference.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Car 2. It's lighter and has a far lower rear end gear. The diesel has more torque, but the gas engine will still run away from it.

The lower rear end gear may be completely meaningless depending on what the transmission ratios are. I've seen some cars with a very low final drive ratio but tall transmission ratios to make up for it.

Still, I agree with your evaluation. Though I wonder how well car 2 would do if the race were occurring while both cars were maxed out in GVWR and towing capacity.

ZV

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Car 2. It's lighter and has a far lower rear end gear. The diesel has more torque, but the gas engine will still run away from it.

The lower rear end gear may be completely meaningless depending on what the transmission ratios are. I've seen some cars with a very low final drive ratio but tall transmission ratios to make up for it.

Still, I agree with your evaluation. Though I wonder how well car 2 would do if the race were occurring while both cars were maxed out in GVWR and towing capacity.

ZV

I've never seen a transmission with tall enough lower gear ratios to make up the difference between a 2.92 gear and a 4.56 gear. But if they were closer, yes, I agree.

I didn't see the towing capacity for the diesel vehicle. I wonder if it would be more, so the extra torque would be a wash?

I'm guessing that with that much difference in the rear end gears, Car 2 would still be quicker, fully loaded.
With the O/D ratios also being practically identical, .69 and .72, Car 2 will be turning significantly more RPM's at highway, and most any other speeds. But I guess with less torque, that's how they're making up the performance.

 

[rh71]

yuck Q7. Even the Q5 looks better.

I'm guessing Car 2 though.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Win what? The which driver has the smallest penis contest? The ugly gas guzzling road hogging contest? The dumbest argument of the day contest?


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[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Win what? The which driver has the smallest penis contest? The ugly gas guzzling road hogging contest? The dumbest argument of the day contest?

OMG SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP MOST PREDICTABLE RESPONSE EVAR. :|

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Win what? The which driver has the smallest penis contest? The ugly gas guzzling road hogging contest? The dumbest argument of the day contest?

OMG SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP MOST PREDICTABLE RESPONSE EVAR. :|

QFT, can we start a petition to ban Jules from any thread where an SUV and/or a domestic car may be mentioned?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Win what? The which driver has the smallest penis contest? The ugly gas guzzling road hogging contest? The dumbest argument of the day contest?

OMG SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP MOST PREDICTABLE RESPONSE EVAR. :|

QFT, can we start a petition to ban Jules from any thread where an SUV and/or a domestic car may be mentioned?

I vote nay

 

[thescreensavers]

I found towing capacity for Car 1 look in OP