Survivor of both atomic bombs dies

[Terzo]

It's always interested me how Auschwitz = Nazis but Nanking != Japanese Imperial Army. US history attempts to delineate German genocide from the civilian population but aggregates all Japanese people into one monolithic organ responsible for every atrocity committed during the war which then justifies the use of weapons of mass destruction against two cities.

/Grammar Nazi
I had to look up delineate...and I think you're using it incorrectly.
/Grammar Nazi

I think a big difference, at least in our eyes, between the German and Japanese atrocities is that the Germans were generally hospitable to those who weren't Jewish, Gypsy, etc. If you were a blonde over blue British solider, if captured you would probably end up in a POW camp rather than a concentration camp.
On the other hand, I don't think there is a group of people the Japanese didn't treat inhumanly. American, Filipino, Chinese, or whatever, it didn't matter.

Also, I'm not sure that their atrocities are used in defense of the atomic bombs, at least not directly. Though I bet many citizens of the occupied countries (except Taiwan) still hold a grudge against the Japanese and believe they got their comeuppance with the a bombs. I believe that much of the reason is the impression our troops got when fighting in the Pacific. While Japanese propaganda declared us to be subhuman, our troops probably came to see the Japanese soldiers as animals by experience (suicide charges, kamikazes, inhumane treatment of prisoners). Basically, I believe that given our information at the time, dropping the bombs was what was best for our country.

Though I realize I still haven't answered the initial question, why do we hold all Japanese responsible for the war crimes? Really, I don't know. I've sat here going through a couple ideas, but I can't really support any of them. My best guess is that many in the world don't believe the Japanese have really admitted to any wrong doing.

 

[halik]

The pacification of Japan is the direct result of the US showing Japan and its people what real power is. Look at the Japanese today. Do they have a culture that celebrates flying planes into buildings and blowing up innocents in busses? No. They have been pacified by power. That is what our current enemies don't understand. They don't understand what real terror is. They don't understand death and destruction. They just think they do. That is why they continue to fight. They think they can win. We must show them just how wrong they are. Everyone knows this.

They have no qualms about dying, which means we can never win.

It's the same philosophical issue that was portrayed in "Apocalypse Now" - you can't win a war where the opponent has less moral restrain than you do.

I suppose the only semi-viable take on your strategy is just indiscriminately glass parking lot the whole region and continue to do that to any area that sponsors terrorism. Nothing less will work as demonstrated by Russia in the 80s.

 

[RavenSEAL]

Damn...

 

[Toonces]

/Grammar Nazi
I had to look up delineate...and I think you're using it incorrectly.
/Grammar Nazi

I think a big difference, at least in our eyes, between the German and Japanese atrocities is that the Germans were generally hospitable to those who weren't Jewish, Gypsy, etc. If you were a blonde over blue British solider, if captured you would probably end up in a POW camp rather than a concentration camp.
On the other hand, I don't think there is a group of people the Japanese didn't treat inhumanly. American, Filipino, Chinese, or whatever, it didn't matter.

Also, I'm not sure that their atrocities are used in defense of the atomic bombs, at least not directly. Though I bet many citizens of the occupied countries (except Taiwan) still hold a grudge against the Japanese and believe they got their comeuppance with the a bombs. I believe that much of the reason is the impression our troops got when fighting in the Pacific. While Japanese propaganda declared us to be subhuman, our troops probably came to see the Japanese soldiers as animals by experience (suicide charges, kamikazes, inhumane treatment of prisoners). Basically, I believe that given our information at the time, dropping the bombs was what was best for our country.

Though I realize I still haven't answered the initial question, why do we hold all Japanese responsible for the war crimes? Really, I don't know. I've sat here going through a couple ideas, but I can't really support any of them. My best guess is that many in the world don't believe the Japanese have really admitted to any wrong doing.

You're right, I left out what is being separated from the Nazis.
Let me rephrase:
"US history does a good job to delineate between civilians/the Wehrmacht and Nazis when it comes to the Holocaust."
Which may well still be its incorrect usage.

So fundamentally it's that the Germans treated Americans well during the war, and Asian people hold grudges?
I'm being facetious because for those not involved on either side of the Pacific Theatre, the Bataan Death march, the Korean comfort women, and the Tokyo fire bombings are all irreparably heinous acts. Why some are considered to be 'less' reprehensible because of who was being murdered strikes me as unjust, especially in relation to discussions (like this thread) where Japanese civilian deaths are downplayed in relation to German, American, or Chinese ones.

I think you're right that much of the sentiment comes from the image that many hold about Japan "not teaching the past" or "never admitting to their war crimes". Both are demonstrably false, from my observations. This can easily turn into a semantic battle over the degree of education and the sencerity of the apologies though.

Personally, I think this partially stems from Korean and Chinese governments using war history as nationalistic tools to control their populace and therefore perpetuating this myth is an easy way to placate their citizens on domestic issues. Also, simple ignorance of the positive steps taken by the Japanese government to address the past in comparison to the regressive fringe elements which are (obviously) more aggrandized in the public's consciousness in denying or glorifying Japan's military history.

Here's a list (wiki, I know, but the primary sources are in the notes) of Japanese apologies over the past 60 years. One of the most telling came just three months ago:

"August 10, 2010. Prime Minister Naoto Kan expressed "deep regret over the suffering inflicted" during Japan's colonial rule over Korea. Japan's Kyodo News also reported that Cabinet members endorsed the statement. In addition, Kan said that Japan will hand over precious cultural artifacts that South Korea has been demanding. Among them are records of an ancient Korean royal dynasty The South Korean government, however, only "took note" of the apology, and did not accept it."

There's obviously a political motive in Asian states concerning the effects of Japan's war crimes from a 65 year old conflict; and I have a theory as to why this occurs in the US as well. However, this thread has been derailed towards P&N territory too much already.:|

 

[rudder]

There were still Japanese soldiers manning positions on islands well into the 1970s.

Examples?

there was only one.. his name was Hiroo Onoda. He held out in the Philippine jungles until 1974 or something. There were a couple of soldiers with him, but they were shot or killed at some point way before.

There were likely other holdouts... but I doubt they did it for more than a few weeks or months after the war.

And there were other cases of Japanese soldiers turning up 30 years after the war.. but I think that Onoda guy was the only one still actually trying to fight the war. He reportedly said he was unaware of the Japanese defeat in 1945.

 

[Narmer]

So in other words, being completely isolated from displays of American might prevents one from being shown what real power is?

*sigh. No. If you read the links there were some Japanese fighting well into the 1960s against American and Filipino soldiers. This is true allegiance.

 

[bruceb]

It just goes to show, that some being, keeps tabs on all of us. When your number is up, it is up. Apparently, the powers that be, decided that it was not his time to go.

 

[waggy]

Mr. Yamaguchi was in his Nagasaki office, telling his boss about the Hiroshima blast, when “suddenly the same white light filled the room,”

lol i can imagine that: "...oh fuck not again!"

hahahahah thats what i thought when i read that sentence.