Survey: Religion not the source of tension between Arabs and West

[cquark]

From the recently published executive summary of the Center for Strategic Studies survey.

The study draws seven conclusions:

1) Arabs hold coherent notions of what constitute the values of Western and Arab societies. They associate the West with individual liberty and wealth, while they view themselves as emphasizing religion and family.

2) Arab perceptions of Western societal and cultural values do not determine their attitudes toward Western foreign policies.

3) Religion is not the basis of tension between Arabs and the West.

4) The Arab world does not reject the professed goals of the West?s foreign policies toward the Arab World, but rather objects to the discrepancy between professed ideals and perceived reality.

5) Arabs disagree fundamentally with US positions on issues such as the definition of terrorism, the Arab-Israeli conflict, and war in Iraq.

6) Despite disagreements and disillusionments, many Arabs desire stronger relations between their countries and the West.

7) Arab dissatisfaction with US policies is unlikely to diminish in the absence of significant US foreign policy changes.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: cquark

Arab dissatisfaction with US policies is unlikely to diminish in the absence of significant US foreign policy changes.

What's their problem, they don't like the U.S. occupying the Middle East???

 

[Kibbo]

Of course they do Dave, take that tinfoil off.

They welcomed us with open arms after being shocked and awed by our righteous might. Isn't that what happened?

 

[Stunt]

It's good to hear some truth out of the people in the Middle East.
I'd like all people on these forums to read these conclusions.
I've seen a lot of grave assumptions made here about Arabs and if we sat down and listened to how they feel and not shove what we think they need down their throats, our would would be a much better place.

 

[cquark]

I think we'd have a better Middle-Eastern policy if Americans would take a moment to understand what the common positions of the Arab people were instead of attempting to attribute their own fears to the Arab world.

1) Arabs hold coherent notions of what constitute the values of Western and Arab societies. They associate the West with individual liberty and wealth, while they view themselves as emphasizing religion and family.

2) Arab perceptions of Western societal and cultural values do not determine their attitudes toward Western foreign policies.

3) Religion is not the basis of tension between Arabs and the West.

4) The Arab world does not reject the professed goals of the West?s foreign policies toward the Arab World, but rather objects to the discrepancy between professed ideals and perceived reality.

5) Arabs disagree fundamentally with US positions on issues such as the definition of terrorism, the Arab-Israeli conflict, and war in Iraq.

6) Despite disagreements and disillusionments, many Arabs desire stronger relations between their countries and the West.

7) Arab dissatisfaction with US policies is unlikely to diminish in the absence of significant US foreign policy changes.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: cquark
I think we'd have a better Middle-Eastern policy if Americans would take a moment to understand what the common positions of the Arab people were instead of attempting to attribute their own fears to the Arab world.

1) Arabs hold coherent notions of what constitute the values of Western and Arab societies. They associate the West with individual liberty and wealth, while they view themselves as emphasizing religion and family.

2) Arab perceptions of Western societal and cultural values do not determine their attitudes toward Western foreign policies.

3) Religion is not the basis of tension between Arabs and the West.

4) The Arab world does not reject the professed goals of the West?s foreign policies toward the Arab World, but rather objects to the discrepancy between professed ideals and perceived reality.

5) Arabs disagree fundamentally with US positions on issues such as the definition of terrorism, the Arab-Israeli conflict, and war in Iraq.

6) Despite disagreements and disillusionments, many Arabs desire stronger relations between their countries and the West.

7) Arab dissatisfaction with US policies is unlikely to diminish in the absence of significant US foreign policy changes.

Oh, i agree!

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Stunt
It's good to hear some truth out of the people in the Middle East.
I'd like all people on these forums to read these conclusions.
I've seen a lot of grave assumptions made here about Arabs and if we sat down and listened to how they feel and not shove what we think they need down their throats, our would would be a much better place.

If they'd take care of their own problems with their fundy terrorists, radical religious death cults, and megalomanical dictators then we wouldn't have to do it for them. Unfortunately, history has shown them to be unwilling and/or unable to deal with the problem that has festered for decades, so we are there. Sorry, but I'm not willing to drastically alter my lifestyle, values, or culture to accommodate some loony twits halfway around the world. I doubt many in this country or in this forum would be willing to do so either.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Stunt
It's good to hear some truth out of the people in the Middle East.
I'd like all people on these forums to read these conclusions.
I've seen a lot of grave assumptions made here about Arabs and if we sat down and listened to how they feel and not shove what we think they need down their throats, our would would be a much better place.

If they'd take care of their own problems with their fundy terrorists, radical religious death cults, and megalomanical dictators then we wouldn't have to do it for them. Unfortunately, history has shown them to be unwilling and/or unable to deal with the problem that has festered for decades, so we are there. Sorry, but I'm not willing to drastically alter my lifestyle, values, or culture to accommodate some loony twits halfway around the world. I doubt many in this country or in this forum would be willing to do so either.

*sigh* You are losing it man. Aren't most of the problems in the ME directly related to our interference? Yes.

Also how does a change in American foreign policy affect your lifestyle, values or culture?

 

[mordantmonkey]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

If they'd take care of their own problems with their fundy terrorists, radical religious death cults, and megalomanical dictators then we wouldn't have to do it for them. Unfortunately, history has shown them to be unwilling and/or unable to deal with the problem that has festered for decades, so we are there. Sorry, but I'm not willing to drastically alter my lifestyle, values, or culture to accommodate some loony twits halfway around the world. I doubt many in this country or in this forum would be willing to do so either.

oddly enough also posted on an Arab language tech forum, half way around the world.

 

[Stunt]

haha!...funny stuff mordantmonkey.
TLC, you have to admit, that was pretty good.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

If they'd take care of their own problems with their fundy terrorists, radical religious death cults, and megalomanical dictators then we wouldn't have to do it for them. Unfortunately, history has shown them to be unwilling and/or unable to deal with the problem that has festered for decades, so we are there. Sorry, but I'm not willing to drastically alter my lifestyle, values, or culture to accommodate some loony twits halfway around the world. I doubt many in this country or in this forum would be willing to do so either.

oddly enough also posted on an Arab language tech forum, half way around the world.

I was just thinking the exact same thing.

 

[ciba]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I've seen a lot of grave assumptions made here about Arabs and if we sat down and listened to how they feel and not shove what we think they need down their throats, our would would be a much better place.

I'm sorry I can't hear what they have to say. Their actions are too loud.

 

[Stunt]

Uh huh...
because the majority of Arabs are terrorists...all 450million of them :roll:

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Stunt
It's good to hear some truth out of the people in the Middle East.
I'd like all people on these forums to read these conclusions.
I've seen a lot of grave assumptions made here about Arabs and if we sat down and listened to how they feel and not shove what we think they need down their throats, our would would be a much better place.

If they'd take care of their own problems with their fundy terrorists, radical religious death cults, and megalomanical dictators then we wouldn't have to do it for them. Unfortunately, history has shown them to be unwilling and/or unable to deal with the problem that has festered for decades, so we are there. Sorry, but I'm not willing to drastically alter my lifestyle, values, or culture to accommodate some loony twits halfway around the world. I doubt many in this country or in this forum would be willing to do so either.

*sigh* You are losing it man. Aren't most of the problems in the ME directly related to our interference? Yes.

Also how does a change in American foreign policy affect your lifestyle, values or culture?

I've heard this Chomskyism - "The problems in the ME are our fault." yet have never, ever heard anyone adequately explain what they mean by that.

So please explain how our "interference" is directly related to the problems in the ME. I've asked this question many times before and the usual response I get is nothing short of *crickets*, sheer speculation, or non-sensical crap that is not any sort of a direct relationship. So, please, enlighten me and others who don't agree with that sentiment.

Oh, and if you think a change in foreign policy will make any sort of difference, then you don't understand the Islamic fundies one bit. Clinton had a different US foreign policy and we were attacked on four different occassions during his two terms. Claiming that our foreing policy is all we need to change is ridiculous.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

If they'd take care of their own problems with their fundy terrorists, radical religious death cults, and megalomanical dictators then we wouldn't have to do it for them. Unfortunately, history has shown them to be unwilling and/or unable to deal with the problem that has festered for decades, so we are there. Sorry, but I'm not willing to drastically alter my lifestyle, values, or culture to accommodate some loony twits halfway around the world. I doubt many in this country or in this forum would be willing to do so either.

oddly enough also posted on an Arab language tech forum, half way around the world.

Maybe, but I don't post a sig that says "Death to Arabia!" so there's that little difference.

 

[Stunt]

TLC, the point of posting the survey was the show that Arabs don't with death upon the US, it actually wants better relations.
Nice assumption that all 450million arabs wish death on the US

Talk about not getting it...:roll:

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Stunt
TLC, the point of posting the survey was the show that Arabs don't with death upon the US, it actually wants better relations.
Nice assumption that all 450million arabs wish death on the US

Talk about not getting it...:roll:

Talk about not reading what I wrote.

Did my statements claim all Arabs?

I specified who my finger was pointing at, so please read a little closer next time and don't just assume I'm generalizing.

 

[ciba]

Stunt, I don't think you understand what we're saying.

While terrorists are a small minority of the arab world, many people view the majority as unwilling or unable to combat that threat. Take the Palestinian Authority as an example. While they may not support "official" terrorism, they either can't or won't stop it.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Stunt
It's good to hear some truth out of the people in the Middle East.
I'd like all people on these forums to read these conclusions.
I've seen a lot of grave assumptions made here about Arabs and if we sat down and listened to how they feel and not shove what we think they need down their throats, our would would be a much better place.

If they'd take care of their own problems with their fundy terrorists, radical religious death cults, and megalomanical dictators then we wouldn't have to do it for them. Unfortunately, history has shown them to be unwilling and/or unable to deal with the problem that has festered for decades, so we are there. Sorry, but I'm not willing to drastically alter my lifestyle, values, or culture to accommodate some loony twits halfway around the world. I doubt many in this country or in this forum would be willing to do so either.

*sigh* You are losing it man. Aren't most of the problems in the ME directly related to our interference? Yes.

Also how does a change in American foreign policy affect your lifestyle, values or culture?

I've heard this Chomskyism - "The problems in the ME are our fault." yet have never, ever heard anyone adequately explain what they mean by that.

So please explain how our "interference" is directly related to the problems in the ME. I've asked this question many times before and the usual response I get is nothing short of *crickets*, sheer speculation, or non-sensical crap that is not any sort of a direct relationship. So, please, enlighten me and others who don't agree with that sentiment.

Oh, and if you think a change in foreign policy will make any sort of difference, then you don't understand the Islamic fundies one bit. Clinton had a different US foreign policy and we were attacked on four different occassions during his two terms. Claiming that our foreing policy is all we need to change is ridiculous.

Who helped install the Ba'ath party?

Who deposed Mohammad Mossadeq and installed the Shah of Iran?

Who aided and abetted the terrorist organization called the ISI in Pakistan?

Who aided and abetted Osama Bin Laden?

Who is in bed with the Saudi royals?

The West seems to have a fetish with messing around with the Middle East/the Indian Subcontinent.

Middle Eastern/Indian people from my experience are in general very good people. I can't say the same for Asians or most other people. They are fiercely nationalistic though, just like us. We need to stop playing with their governments and their lives and start respecting the people who introduced us to the rest of the world.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Stunt
TLC, the point of posting the survey was the show that Arabs don't with death upon the US, it actually wants better relations.
Nice assumption that all 450million arabs wish death on the US

Talk about not getting it...:roll:

Talk about not reading what I wrote.

Did my statements claim all Arabs?

I specified who my finger was pointing at, so please read a little closer next time and don't just assume I'm generalizing.

no it didnt, but you assume that the person on the other side who is criticizing the same thing you are...has a sig that you don't have...and that's the difference.
Therefore you assume that the average american (you) is not like the average Arab. I know exactly what you are talking about .

And you are generalizing. Tell me how you are not.

 

[mordantmonkey]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

If they'd take care of their own problems with their fundy terrorists, radical religious death cults, and megalomanical dictators then we wouldn't have to do it for them. Unfortunately, history has shown them to be unwilling and/or unable to deal with the problem that has festered for decades, so we are there. Sorry, but I'm not willing to drastically alter my lifestyle, values, or culture to accommodate some loony twits halfway around the world. I doubt many in this country or in this forum would be willing to do so either.

oddly enough also posted on an Arab language tech forum, half way around the world.

Maybe, but I don't post a sig that says "Death to Arabia!" so there's that little difference.

most of "them" don't either. so no not really.

Edit: to add smug little winky

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Stunt
It's good to hear some truth out of the people in the Middle East.
I'd like all people on these forums to read these conclusions.
I've seen a lot of grave assumptions made here about Arabs and if we sat down and listened to how they feel and not shove what we think they need down their throats, our would would be a much better place.

If they'd take care of their own problems with their fundy terrorists, radical religious death cults, and megalomanical dictators then we wouldn't have to do it for them. Unfortunately, history has shown them to be unwilling and/or unable to deal with the problem that has festered for decades, so we are there. Sorry, but I'm not willing to drastically alter my lifestyle, values, or culture to accommodate some loony twits halfway around the world. I doubt many in this country or in this forum would be willing to do so either.

*sigh* You are losing it man. Aren't most of the problems in the ME directly related to our interference? Yes.

Also how does a change in American foreign policy affect your lifestyle, values or culture?

I've heard this Chomskyism - "The problems in the ME are our fault." yet have never, ever heard anyone adequately explain what they mean by that.

So please explain how our "interference" is directly related to the problems in the ME. I've asked this question many times before and the usual response I get is nothing short of *crickets*, sheer speculation, or non-sensical crap that is not any sort of a direct relationship. So, please, enlighten me and others who don't agree with that sentiment.

Oh, and if you think a change in foreign policy will make any sort of difference, then you don't understand the Islamic fundies one bit. Clinton had a different US foreign policy and we were attacked on four different occassions during his two terms. Claiming that our foreing policy is all we need to change is ridiculous.

Who helped install the Ba'ath party?

A Frenchman named Aflaq.

Who deposed Mohammad Mossadeq and installed the Shah of Iran?

Who was in charge prior to Mossadeq? How did Mossadeq gain his power?

Who aided and abetted the terrorist organization called the ISI in Pakistan?

Meaningless.

Who aided and abetted Osama Bin Laden?

Cold war.

Who is in bed with the Saudi royals?

Every western leader for the last 60 years. We deal with them for oil. Are you claiming that it's not beneficial for countries in the ME to sell their oil?

The West seems to have a fetish with messing around with the Middle East/the Indian Subcontinent.

The West does not necessarily = the US. If you want to blame Western European imperialism on the US, that seems a bit off-base.

Middle Eastern/Indian people from my experience are in general very good people. I can't say the same for Asians or most other people. They are fiercely nationalistic though, just like us. We need to stop playing with their governments and their lives and start respecting the people who introduced us to the rest of the world.

ime, most people are good people no matter where they come from, Arab, Persian, Asian, or elsewise. The majority, unfortumately, are not the problem. It's the radical fringe and it's the wishes of that fringe you are focusing on, not the good people.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Stunt
TLC, the point of posting the survey was the show that Arabs don't with death upon the US, it actually wants better relations.
Nice assumption that all 450million arabs wish death on the US

Talk about not getting it...:roll:

Talk about not reading what I wrote.

Did my statements claim all Arabs?

I specified who my finger was pointing at, so please read a little closer next time and don't just assume I'm generalizing.

no it didnt, but you assume that the person on the other side who is criticizing the same thing you are...has a sig that you don't have...and that's the difference.
Therefore you assume that the average american (you) is not like the average Arab. I know exactly what you are talking about .

And you are generalizing. Tell me how you are not.

Missed the winky, eh?

 

[Stunt]

Because this is the exact thread you really want to bust out the Arab stereotypes; :thumbsup: on the thread crap.

 

[Proletariat]

God you are misinformed.

Ba'ath party - CIA

Mossadeq - elected. As soon as he tried to nationalize Iranian oil fields. Out.

ISI IS MEANINGLESS? Ouch respect just went down a lot - the ISI was the biggest supporter of the Taliban and Osama Bin laden

I guess the cold war is an excuse for everything, you have very little humanity I suspect.

You deal with their tyranny for oil? The huge civil rights problems? I guess thats why you deal with Turkey. They've killed more minorities than Iraq ever has, and nothing was done about them.

The Western part of Europe = old Imperialism, wisened up and moved to a new intellectual plane.
America = new Imperialism

And I am sorry but I have been around the world, and I can say that people in certain countries are nicer/friendlier/more charming than others. I don't like being treated badly and charged more because I am a westerner in Japan. I would much rather go to a country where people are welcoming.

You would be a radical as well if the West was imperialized by a Middle Eastern power.