Surprise, surprise! Growing up poor sucks.

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
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For all you right-wing troglodytes (or is the combination of "right-wing" and "troglodyte" redundant?) who insist that working hard is the solution to social disadvantage, there comes a study that essentially concludes that doing "everything right" as a poor kid will get you only slightly ahead of a rich kid who does everything wrong. Of course, if the rich kid does only MOST things wrong, you lose.

But, hey, keep on believing that America is the land of "personal responsibility" and no entitlement. Because if you find even one poor kid that made it to the top 1%, that proves that every poor kid should be able to make it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rich-kids-who-do-everything-wrong/?tid=pm_pop

America is the land of opportunity, just for some more than others.

That's because, in large part, inequality starts in the crib. Rich parents can afford to spend more time and money on their kids, and that gap has only grown the past few decades. Indeed, economists Greg Duncan and Richard Murnane calculate that, between 1972 and 2006, high-income parents increased their spending on "enrichment activities" for their children by 151 percent in inflation-adjusted terms, compared to 57 percent for low-income parents.

But, of course, it's not just a matter of dollars and cents. It's also a matter of letters and words. Affluent parents talk to their kids three more hours a week on average than poor parents, which is critical during a child's formative early years. That's why, as Stanford professor Sean Reardon explains, "rich students are increasingly entering kindergarten much better prepared to succeed in school than middle-class students," and they're staying that way.

It's an educational arms race that's leaving many kids far, far behind.

It's depressing, but not nearly so much as this:

Even poor kids who do everything right don't do much better than rich kids who do everything wrong. Advantages and disadvantages, in other words, tend to perpetuate themselves. You can see that in the above chart, based on a new paper from Richard Reeves and Isabel Sawhill, presented at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston's annual conference, which is underway.

Specifically, rich high school dropouts remain in the top about as much as poor college grads stay stuck in the bottom — 14 versus 16 percent, respectively. Not only that, but these low-income strivers are just as likely to end up in the bottom as these wealthy ne'er-do-wells. Some meritocracy.

What's going on? Well, it's all about glass floors and glass ceilings. Rich kids who can go work for the family business — and, in Canada at least, 70 percent of the sons of the top 1 percent do just that — or inherit the family estate don't need a high school diploma to get ahead. It's an extreme example of what economists call "opportunity hoarding." That includes everything from legacy college admissions to unpaid internships that let affluent parents rig the game a little more in their children's favor.

But even if they didn't, low-income kids would still have a hard time getting ahead. That's, in part, because they're targets for diploma mills that load them up with debt, but not a lot of prospects. And even if they do get a good degree, at least when it comes to black families, they're more likely to still live in impoverished neighborhoods that keep them disconnected from opportunities.

It's not quite a heads-I-win, tails-you-lose game where rich kids get better educations, yet still get ahead even if they don't—but it's close enough. And if it keeps up, the American Dream will be just that.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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Life's not fair? Say it ain't so!

Does a child who grows up poor and makes the right choices in better shape than one who grows up poor and make the wrong choices?

If so, I'd say we're still doing alright.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Does a child who grows up poor and makes the right choices in better shape than one who grows up poor and make the wrong choices?

I think you're missing the point; clearly, any rich child who makes a lot of mistakes should be put to death for squandering their opportunity.

Was that it? No? Well then I don't know what the hell is going on.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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I think you're missing the point; clearly, any rich child who makes a lot of mistakes should be put to death for squandering their opportunity.

Was that it? No? Well then I don't know what the hell is going on.

What's going on is Shira being a whiny bitch again.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
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What exactly is wrong with being "slightly ahead" of a rich kid who does things wrong?

It's laughable what kind of system a lib idiot (definitely redundant) must think we need to "correct" this.

So in a nutshell, you're whining that rich kids that do things right, don't get shit dumped on them so that they are knocked back down below poor kids who do things right- just to make things fair!
 
Nov 30, 2006
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"Doing "everything right" as a poor kid will get you only slightly ahead of a rich kid"...how many other countries can say this? Not many.

"Affluent parents talk to their kids three more hours a week on average than poor parents, which is critical during a child's formative early years." This is a huge factor in a child's development and it doesn't cost anything. In many ways, the disparity issue goes much, much deeper than money.

I think this is awesome news...the poor really do have a chance for a better life in this country.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
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So the poor kid is able to climb intot he middle class area by doing everything right.

Given that you hate the upper level (rich) class, it would seem that they are doing well.

forbid that the child then does everything right and gets above the parent. the upper level must be horrific.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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Affluent parents talk to their kids three more hours a week on average than poor parents, which is critical during a child's formative early years.

I didn't realize you had to have money to talk to your child. This should be clear to anyone with half a brain, but a lot of the things discussed in that article (and the study) have more to do with culture than they do with money. If you have a single parent, no dad around and mom working a job and there are 4 kids, obviously each kid will get very little parental quality interaction. If you have the same household with two parents, the amount of interaction would be much improved.

Bottom line, just shira showing us once again that lib stupidity knows no bounds.

Good luck trying to change the world to make all outcomes equal :D
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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Funny how relatively poor minority Asians can run circles around many of these so called privileged rich white kids,

but are discriminated against by these phony elite mostly self hating white liberals that have been brainwashed to believe one must look at the country through poor black vs rich white colored glasses.

Or perhaps it's some form of subconscious racism that rich white liberals harbor fearing that they will be out done by the Asian and use blacks and Hispanics as a roadblock to prevent it.

Report: NYC Mayor de Blasio Wages War on Poor Asian Students to Benefit Wealthy Liberals
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...or-Asian-Students-to-Benefit-Wealthy-Liberals

Liberal New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio and his progressive allies often accuse conservatives of waging a war on women and love to gin up the "income inequality" and "class warfare" rhetoric.

But they want to wage war on poor and working-class New Yorkers, many of whom happen to be of Asian descent, by radically changing the admissions criteria for the state's prestigious high schools to benefit wealthy liberals. Asians "have the highest poverty rate of any racial group in New York."

In the summer edition of City Journal, Dennis Saffron, an appellate lawyer who was a candidate for city council in Queens, lays out the case against de Blasio's anti-meritocracy education reforms in an article titled, "The Plot Against Merit: Seeking racial balance, liberal advocates want to water down admissions standards at New York’s elite high schools."

De Blasio wants to deemphasize merit and test scores in admissions to some of the state's most prominent specialized high schools, which Saffron concludes will benefit "affluent white students who didn’t study hard enough to perform really well on the test but seem more 'well-rounded' than those who did."



"As always, the losers in this top-bottom squeeze will be the lower middle and working classes," he observes.


Saffron notes that "New York’s specialized high schools, including Stuyvesant and the equally storied Bronx High School of Science, along with Brooklyn Technical High School and five smaller schools, have produced 14 Nobel Laureates—more than most countries." But concerned about the lack of Latinos and blacks at those schools, the NAACP and liberal politicians like "New York City mayor Bill de Blasio, whose son, Dante, attends Brooklyn Tech, has called for changing the admissions criteria." Saffron notes that though the socialist de Blasio argues that "relying solely on the test creates a 'rich-get-richer' dynamic that benefits the wealthy, who can afford expensive test preparation," the "reality is just the opposite."



To make elite schools ‘fair,’ city will punish poor Asians
http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/why-nycs-push-to-change-school-admissions-will-punish-poor-asians/


In 2004, 7-year-old Ting Shi arrived in New York from China, speaking almost no English. For two years, he shared a bedroom in a Chinatown apartment with his grandparents — a cook and a factory worker — and a young cousin, while his parents put in 12-hour days at a small laundromat they had purchased on the Upper East Side.


Ting mastered English and eventually set his sights on getting into Stuyvesant High School, the crown jewel of New York City’s eight “specialized high schools.”


When he was in sixth grade, he took the subway downtown from his parents’ small apartment to the bustling high school to pick up prep books for its eighth-grade entrance exam. He prepared for the test over the next two years, working through the prep books and taking classes at one of the city’s free tutoring programs. His acceptance into Stuyvesant prompted a day of celebration at the laundromat — an immigrant family’s dream beginning to come true.


Ting, now a 17-year-old senior starting at NYU in the fall, says of his parents, who never went to college: “They came here for the next generation.”




The plot against merit



New York’s specialized high schools, including Stuyvesant and the equally storied Bronx High School of Science, along with Brooklyn Technical High School and five smaller schools, have produced 14 Nobel laureates — more than most countries.


For more than 70 years, admission to these schools has been based upon a competitive examination of math, verbal and logical reasoning skills. In 1971, the state legislature, heading off city efforts to scrap the merit selection test as culturally biased against minorities, reaffirmed that admission to the schools be based on the competitive exam.


But now, troubled by declining black and Hispanic enrollment at the schools, opponents of the exam have resurfaced. The NAACP Legal Defense Fund has filed a civil-rights complaint challenging the admissions process. A bill in Albany to eliminate the test requirement has garnered the support of Sheldon Silver, the powerful Assembly speaker.


And new Mayor Bill de Blasio, whose son, Dante, attends Brooklyn Tech, has called for changing the admissions criteria. The mayor argues that relying solely on the test creates a “rich-get-richer” dynamic that benefits the wealthy, who can afford expensive test preparation.


The ‘rich’ fallacy

Asians in New York are overwhelmingly first- and second-generation; some three-quarters of the students at Stuyvesant are immigrants or the children of immigrants.
They’re hardly affluent, notwithstanding de Blasio’s implication that families who get their kids into the specialized schools are “rich.”


True, Asians nationally have the highest median income of any racial group, including whites — and in New York City, their median household income ranks second to that of whites and well ahead of blacks and Hispanics.


But Asians also have the highest poverty rate of any racial group in New York, with 29 percent living below the poverty level, compared with 26 percent of Hispanics, 23 percent of blacks and 14 percent of whites. Poor Asians lag far behind whites and are barely ahead of blacks and Latinos.

Thus, the income spectrum among Asians in New York ranges from a surprisingly large number in poverty, through a hardworking lower middle class, and on to a more affluent upper middle class.


It might seem reasonable to assume — as de Blasio and others apparently do — that the Asian kids at the specialized schools come largely from families at the top of this pyramid. But this isn’t the case.


Half the students at the specialized high schools qualify for free or subsidized school lunches, including 47 percent at Stuyvesant and 48 percent at Bronx Science — figures that have increased correspondingly with Asians’ rising numbers at these schools. Based upon these figures, Stuyvesant and Bronx Science (as well as four of the other six specialized schools) are eligible for federal Title I funding, given to schools with large numbers of low-income students.


Think about that: Two public high schools that, along with half their students, are officially classified as poor by the federal government rival the most exclusive prep schools in the world.


The poor students get into such schools through hard work and sacrifice — both their own and that of their parents. The students typically attend local tutoring programs, which proliferate in Asian neighborhoods, starting the summer after sixth grade and for several days a week, including weekends, during the school year prior to the test. The costs are burdensome for poor and working families, but it’s a matter of priorities.

A liberal nightmare

All this once would have been the stuff of liberal dreams: A racial minority group historically victimized by discrimination begins coming to America in greater numbers because of an immigration reform sponsored by Ted Kennedy. Though many in the group remain in poverty, they take advantage of free public schools established by progressive New York City governments. By dint of their own hard work, they earn admission in increasing numbers to merit-based schools that offer smart working-class kids the kind of education once available only at Andover or Choate.

To modern “progressive” elites, though, the story is intolerable, starting with the hard work. These liberal elites seem particularly troubled by the Asian-American work ethic and the difficult questions that it raises about the role of culture in group success.


While the advancement of Asian students has come overwhelmingly at the expense of more affluent whites, it has also had an undeniable impact on black and Latino students, whose foothold at these schools, small to begin with, has all but vanished.


Alarm at this development has triggered a new wave of assaults upon the entrance exam — now known as the Specialized High School Admissions Test (“SHSAT”) — and the law that mandates its use.
In September 2012, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund filed a complaint with the US Department of Education, which dispenses federal educational funding to the city, charging that use of the SHSAT as the sole basis for admission violates Title VI of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which prohibits racial discrimination by federal aid recipients.


The complaint does not allege that the exam intentionally discriminates against black and Hispanic students. Instead, citing statistics regarding declining black and Latino enrollment and SHSAT pass rates, the LDF bases its argument entirely on the theory of “disparate impact” — that is, that discrimination should be inferred merely from racial differences in test scores.


In the complaint and in a subsequent report released last fall to coincide with de Blasio’s election, the LDF argues for replacement of the SHSAT with a “holistic” admissions process — one that would consider “multiple measures” of academic potential, “both quantitative and qualitative,” including not only grades but also such subjective indicators as interviews, recommendations, “portfolio assessments,” “proven leadership skills” and “commitment to community service.”


Other factors could include applicants’ “backgrounds and experiences” and the “demographic profile” of their schools and neighborhoods. To the extent that a test would be allowed at all, it would merely “supplement” these other criteria. The LDF also called for guaranteed admission for valedictorians and salutatorians, and perhaps other top students, at each public middle school program — a proposal that sounds modest but would actually require a set-aside of at least 1,000 of the 3,800 seats in each class.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
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"Doing "everything right" as a poor kid will get you only slightly ahead of a rich kid" WHO DOES EVERYTHING WRONG...how many other countries can say this? Not many.

"Affluent parents talk to their kids three more hours a week on average than poor parents, which is critical during a child's formative early years." This is a huge factor in a child's development and it doesn't cost anything. In many ways, the disparity issue goes much, much deeper than money.

I think this is awesome news...the poor really do have a chance for a better life in this country.
Fixed that for you.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
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Newsflash: Being poor isn't a disease!

I grew up poor. No...I grew up dirt poor, we were jealous of the poor people because they had Q Tips. My single mom raised 2 kids without any help from our sperm donor. She busted her ass and I learned from her.

I started working full time as soon as I was legally allowed to. I learned everything I could and did every job I could. I worked my way up the ranks fast because of that. Then a customer offered me a job and I took that. I moved up the ranks there using the same work ethic. Now I'm doing just fine.

No this isn't a "fuck you I got mine" story. Its proving the liberal fuckwads wrong. You can stop being poor any time you would like. Get a job, work hard, get a better job. Repeat as often as necessary.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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I feel sorry for all the children of the Vietnamese immigrants who came here after the Vietnam war....not enough rich kids messed up in life for any of them to succeed.
 

Annisman*

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2010
1,931
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All I know is I've got a GED and making 70k a yr, my bro has a high school degree making about the same. There are jobs out there, good paying ones. Hard work and desire trumps race, wealth and education.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
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OP, did you really think that this thread would turn into anything other than conservatives who've been the benefit of their white privilege making their arguments for why Soylent Green is a good social plan?
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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The obvious solution then is to prevent people from having children they aren't capable of taking care of. I can understand criticizing nepotism, but the fact that some rich parents simply raise their children better shouldn't be held against them. Not to mention that a family doesn't need to be rich in order to have one parent stay at home with their children. Admittedly, a truly poor family without extended family to rely on (see: many of the Asian families mentioned above) may not be able to do that, and it is incredibly fucked up to see how many children have the odds against them simply by the misfortune of being born to a poor, single mother. It's just that eliminating the poor directly (abortion) is a better solution than muh income redistribution.

EDIT: And how is this...

Specifically, rich high school dropouts remain in the top about as much as poor college grads stay stuck in the bottom — 14 versus 16 percent, respectively.

...even relevant? Yeah, Paris Hilton exists, bfd. Are they saying then that the other 84% of poor college grads that don't stay stuck in the bottom are negligible?
 
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squarecut1

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2013
2,230
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Wonder why dirt poor Asian and African immigrants do so well?

A lot of Asians who come here aren't anywhere dirt poor, in fact are quite well off, but your point is still valid. There are a lot of immigrants who come to America with nothing and do okay. They are not necessarily rich (success is not defined by wealth) but are decent members of the society. Not into crime, dysfunction and the general thuggery.
 

squarecut1

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2013
2,230
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OP, did you really think that this thread would turn into anything other than conservatives who've been the benefit of their white privilege making their arguments for why Soylent Green is a good social plan?

There is no doubt that there is a massive white privilege in the country in many ways. Not least of which is the wealth accumulated over the previous generations. And in many other ways too. But that is not the whole story. There are two sides to it.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
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I call these 'gauntlet threads' and shira is one of several instigators of same on a regular basis. They go like this: You 'insert political leaning here' not only don't understand 'insert perceived social injustice here' you are also responsible for 'social injustice mentioned earlier'! The rant continues on from there citing how mean people are that are not turning their income over to the government in large enough quantities because they are mean, vile people that don't understand something or another and blah, blah, blah, blah.

What a way to go through life. Perpetually angry because the people, nation, government, world, planet, solar system, etc., is not behaving in the manner you deem suitable. Throw down that gauntlet shira! You'll feel better for a short while until it all bubbles to the surface again.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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The obvious solution then is to prevent people from having children they aren't capable of taking care of. I can understand criticizing nepotism, but the fact that some rich parents simply raise their children better shouldn't be held against them. Not to mention that a family doesn't need to be rich in order to have one parent stay at home with their children. Admittedly, a truly poor family without extended family to rely on (see: many of the Asian families mentioned above) may not be able to do that, and it is incredibly fucked up to see how many children have the odds against them simply by the misfortune of being born to a poor, single mother. It's just that eliminating the poor directly (abortion) is a better solution than muh income redistribution.

Yes, let's ignore that human beings are organisms with an innate desire to reproduce and attempt to limit reproduction to people we've thoroughly vetted and identified as qualified to provide a proper home establishment to potential offspring. That plan can't fail!
 

squarecut1

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2013
2,230
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Why do people make this either this or that debate - I don't understand. Yes, America is a very unfair society - more than many other Western countries. But again, that is not the whole story either.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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Yes, let's ignore that human beings are organisms with an innate desire to reproduce and attempt to limit reproduction to people we've thoroughly vetted and identified as qualified to provide a proper home establishment to potential offspring. That plan can't fail!

It doesn't require limiting reproduction exclusively. Young children are adopted quite readily in the USA last I checked.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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OP, did you really think that this thread would turn into anything other than conservatives who've been the benefit of their white privilege making their arguments for why Soylent Green is a good social plan?

Ahahahahahaha, in steps a fucktard to start slinging the word privilege around, right on cue.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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It doesn't require limiting reproduction exclusively. Young children are adopted quite readily in the USA last I checked.

Ah yes, the old "you haven't been financially cleared to reproduce, so we're going to steal your baby and give it to someone richer than you" mode of governance. As long as we're going completely insane with "logical" methods of dealing with procreation, why not just chemically castrate everyone at birth and then people can pay a nominal fee to get their reproductive organs working again at some point in the future. $100,000 ought to weed out the riff-raff, eh? And hey, our teen pregnancy rates would be the envy of the world! Remember, they aren't reproductive rights, they're reproductive privileges, and them shits ain't free.