Surface/Windows RT as a desktop PC for a parent?

[Wolfpup]

My mom screwed up another Windows PC, and I'm thinking I want to do something more locked down. I thought of a Chromebook (which I assume gets updated whenever Chrome does) but it's just too limited-she needs local file storage, office support, etc.

And then it dawned on me...Windows RT is supposedly locked down, isn't it? Like you can't install plug-ins? It won't execute code except what's in the Windows Store?

Soooo this seems like a pretty great choice for her?

I'm thinking of preordering the Surface 2 for her, but wanted a sanity check, like whether RT is really locked down enough that she can't mess it up (I know regedit is still there...which is awesome actually, but does make me wonder how locked down it actually is).

 

[LurchFrinky]

You say that your mom screwed up another Windows PC. Are you only talking about software? I ask because you are suggesting hardware solutions.

I think you are correct in your Windows RT assessment, but I am not sure. It makes sense that most malware is targeting Windows on x86, and simply won't execute on Windows RT.

Depending on how computer literate and set-in-her-ways your mom is, I would suggest installing Linux on her computer. The KDE versions (Kubuntu, Mint KDE, etc.) have a similar look and feel as Windows, and my mother-in-law loves it.
The biggest sticking point would be your/her definition of office support. You can use the open-source office programs that come with them, or you can install MS Office through Wine.

I don't happen to think that the Surface is a "great choice", but you are not insane if you do go this route.

 

[Torn Mind]

Just how did she mess them up? Virus, malware, adware, etc? Sandboxie can help out against some of that before they take permanent residence on the computer.

What are to programs she needs to use?

 

[DaveSimmons]

It's not like a Chromebook with a locked OS, but it's currently much safer than real Windows.

If you install a bad app, it can do bad things since it isn't sandboxed like in Chrome OS. Eventually the Windows store will get some malicious apps in it just like has happened in the iOS and Android stores, so you'd need to warn your mom about installing things at random.

It will still be safer since web pages won't be easily able to infect the Surface, and download links won't install spam toolbars.

 

[ElFenix]

i thought windows RT was sandboxed.

maybe not as sandboxed would be accurate?

 

[DaveSimmons]

i thought windows RT was sandboxed.

maybe not as sandboxed would be accurate?

I haven't written any metro apps yet myself, but apps do have access to the file system, contacts, etc. if the user clicks through an "allow" prompt. So if a card game app tricks Mom into allowing it, the app could be searching her disk for interesting info to steal while she plays.

 

[Wolfpup]

Hmm, so RT you CAN'T install any plug ins, right? I mean from a browser, there's nothing she can do to actually muck it up (so long as the OS is kept patched up of course!)

Good point about it being possible for their to be bad apps in the store...though I guess they'd still list what permissions they have? (i.e. access to the file system, or whatever?)

I *think* if that's the only vulnerability it's not too bad as she'll probably never use the store, and hopefully, HOPEFULLY I can at least say "check with me before using the store" and she will since it's a separate program...versus her clicking random things on a web page.

As long as she can't install plug ins in the browser, and I suppose she could download executables through the browser, but they can't actually execute as RT won't execute anything except from the store, right? (Plus of course there's some extra security through obscurity just because it's ARMv7 instead of x86.)

I guess even if it got in the store, the malware would still be fairly sandboxed, right? Like it could show as needing local file access or access to location or contacts, and do bad things with that, BUT just uninstalling the bad app would fix it, as it can't actually spew junk all over the OS?

(And to be clear with all this, I LOVE that Windows is open and don't like all this locked stuff, BUT it kind of sounds perfect for my mom lol...I'd almost like a "RT-like locked down mode" for Windows 8)

 

[DaveSimmons]

Yes, no plugins for RT except Flash.

I guess even if it got in the store, the malware would still be fairly sandboxed, right? Like it could show as needing local file access or access to location or contacts, and do bad things with that, BUT just uninstalling the bad app would fix it, as it can't actually spew junk all over the OS?

If she clicked to allow full access, it might be able to do bad things to OS files. Uninstalling would not undo the damage. It's hard to say how bad this might get since right now there is no money to be made attacking RT because no one uses it 🙂

 

[Wolfpup]

Yes, no plugins for RT except Flash.



If she clicked to allow full access, it might be able to do bad things to OS files. Uninstalling would not undo the damage. It's hard to say how bad this might get since right now there is no money to be made attacking RT because no one uses it 🙂

Hmm.... well that's bad, but at least it sounds like there's nothing you can do from the browser to wreck the OS...unless something links from a website to malware that's gotten in to the store, and you approve the malware...

At least it sounds more protected than a normal OS...

She'd better not wreck a Surface 2, as I'd kind of like one myself lol

 

[Techhog]

Wouldn't it be easier just to use normal Windows and put her on a standard account? It would be a bit of a hassle for you at times, but at least then you know nothing will go wrong.

I'm gonna be totally honest though, I'd just buy her a Mac Mini and call it a day lol. And I hate Apple!

 

[DaveSimmons]

> unless something links from a website to malware that's gotten in to the store, and you approve the malware...

Even then you'd probably have to click through a bunch of prompts asking if you want to download, if you want to install, if you want to give access. The bad app would also need to be signed with the MS ID of the developer.

Windows RT does seem like a better-than-Chromebook semi-locked OS. A person has to work much harder to get in trouble, vs. "real" windows where any site could have been hacked to include a link that will infect you.

The main problem with it right now is: no apps, no market share to justify making apps, and intentionally crippling the development APIs in ways that make porting existing Windows desktop apps much harder than necessary.

> I'm gonna be totally honest though, I'd just buy her a Mac Mini and call it a day lol. And I hate Apple!

A Surface 2 with keyboard is only $550, and includes the real MS Office instead of something hard to learn and use like OpenOffice/LibreOffice or Google's apps.

 

[escrow4]

I picked up a VivoTab Smart with the full (32-bit) version of 8 for just over $370 a few weeks back. $550 for RT is retarded, I'd just buy her a cheap Win 8 $400 laptop and stick an SSD in it.

 

[Techhog]

I picked up a VivoTab Smart with the full (32-bit) version of 8 for just over $370 a few weeks back. $550 for RT is retarded, I'd just buy her a cheap Win 8 $400 laptop and stick an SSD in it.

I think you missed the point of the thread completely... He wants this so his mother can't break it with malware.

 

[mfenn]

The biggest sticking point would be your/her definition of office support. You can use the open-source office programs that come with them, or you can install MS Office through Wine.

There's also Office 365 and Google Docs which can be used completely through the browser.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I think you missed the point of the thread completely... He wants this so his mother can't break it with malware.

Also those cheap laptops don't come with a Microsoft Office license, or work as a touch-screen tablet with a 10-hour battery life.

I'm kind of tempted to get one for my mom too -- she's messed up her Windows 7 desktop to the point of needing a fresh install too, and she doesn't do anything with it besides use email, Word, and IE.

 

[desura]

Only problem is that some software, think accounting software, won't work on these machines, which is a shame.

They're really great work machines.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Ipad? I thought that Microsoft Office 360 works on the iPad (don't know for sure, never used one, nor Office for that matter). If so, grab a nice keyboard attachment. Can't get any more locked down than an iDevice.

 

[Wolfpup]

Wouldn't it be easier just to use normal Windows and put her on a standard account? It would be a bit of a hassle for you at times, but at least then you know nothing will go wrong.

I'm gonna be totally honest though, I'd just buy her a Mac Mini and call it a day lol. And I hate Apple!

Believe it or not I actually learned my lesson on that one, had her as a standard account this time :lol:

I thought about a Mac (I've typically passed on computers to her, and had her using an iMac I inherited once), but it's not really locked down either. I guess there's a mode you can put it in where it'll only execute programs from the Apple Store, soooo that if it works would be sort of the equivalent, but I don't know, it's like $600ish for a Mini and that won't even work as a notebook. It's definitely an idea worth considering though!

> unless something links from a website to malware that's gotten in to the store, and you approve the malware...

Even then you'd probably have to click through a bunch of prompts asking if you want to download, if you want to install, if you want to give access. The bad app would also need to be signed with the MS ID of the developer.

Windows RT does seem like a better-than-Chromebook semi-locked OS. A person has to work much harder to get in trouble, vs. "real" windows where any site could have been hacked to include a link that will infect you.

The main problem with it right now is: no apps, no market share to justify making apps, and intentionally crippling the development APIs in ways that make porting existing Windows desktop apps much harder than necessary.

> I'm gonna be totally honest though, I'd just buy her a Mac Mini and call it a day lol. And I hate Apple!

A Surface 2 with keyboard is only $550, and includes the real MS Office instead of something hard to learn and use like OpenOffice/LibreOffice or Google's apps.

Yeah, I'm liking this idea quite a lot. I really appreciate all this feedback!

Ipad? I thought that Microsoft Office 360 works on the iPad (don't know for sure, never used one, nor Office for that matter). If so, grab a nice keyboard attachment. Can't get any more locked down than an iDevice.

I thought of an iPad-I've got an iPad 2 I could even give her, but they're just too limited. An iPad you're stuck with just the 9.7" screen which is way too small for her for a lot of things, the office situation is dire, there's no user accessible file system, which is a pain, interacting with the touch screen can be a lot more annoying than a mouse for some things. Surface you've got a tablet, but it also works as effectively a notebook, and even a desktop-it'll work with her existing mouse, keyboard, monitor (with the cable + HDMI to DVI cable), and it even looks like it supports a ton of printers. Not sure about scanner support, but it's just waaaay more like a full PC with everything it can do, and she'll probably end up using it as a tablet at some point too.

I do wish it could play MPEG-2 files (so it could play files from her Tivo without transcoding) and wish it supported DVD and Blu Ray playback!

Ugh, I was going to preorder a Surface 2 tonight, but got cold feet, thinking "I'm spending $450+ on this, and she's going to find a way to break it" lol

Chromebook is just too limited though, sooo...