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Supreme Court: U of M "point system" for minorities unconstitutional
- Thread starter Lucky
- Start date
Gonad the Barbarian
Lifer
Only because it put 'too much' emphasis on race. This isn't really a victory for those against AA and descrimination.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
I think you may need to re-evaluate your title. My impression is the court had issues with race having a higher point value than the majority of criteria used to determine admissions. I disliked their system b/c 'underrepresented minority' should not be worth 20 points but overrall the point system provides a semblance of objectivity to what is otherwise a rather subjective process.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
What advantages do light-skinned people possess that makes them judgable by a higher standard? Isn't that what this ruling is saying? So whites are the "pro" league and all the other races are the "minor" league? I guess the KKK was right all along.
For the dense, that was sarcasm.
For the dense, that was sarcasm.
Actually the point system is not illegal. What is illegal is using race as the most important factor.
U-M could remedy this by simply reducing the number of points given to a minority, or adding a new category like "World Trade Center survivor - 25 points", and then race would no longer be "the most important factor". On this technicality, they would win if challenged in court.
Yes, I know. It's a toothless ruling.
U-M could remedy this by simply reducing the number of points given to a minority, or adding a new category like "World Trade Center survivor - 25 points", and then race would no longer be "the most important factor". On this technicality, they would win if challenged in court.
Yes, I know. It's a toothless ruling.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
It was a bad case. These women were not denied opportunity. They were unfortunate to occupy the nether region of being just above the mean. But it seems like somebody at Ann Arbor would realize you cannot justifiably weight "underrepresented minority" at 20 pts.
The headline should read: Supreme Court upholds U-M's policy of giving preference to one race over another, also known as DISCRIMINATION.
If there's some other word for it, just PM me and let me know.
If there's some other word for it, just PM me and let me know.
I think "most important factor" is not the issue. It is whether it becomes the "overriding factor". The actual problem was that the application of the point system made race not just most important but overpowering, turning it into a quota system. Apparently otherwise qualified minority students gained admission regardless of other factors relevant to competing students and the results for past years, when examined, showed that minority enrollment always matched apparent goals. It was pretty transparent which is why the vote was 6-3.
On the bigger issue of whether Affirmative Action is incompatible with the 14th Amendment, the court seemed to narrowly affirm (in the ruling on the Law School) the view that, as long as it isn't a strict quota system, application of a wider criteria than test scores and past performance is acceptable to gain diversity. However, I would not suggest taking the 5-4 vote as indicative that the court is close to dumping Affirmative Action as a whole. My understanding is that the UM Law School policies, while less blatant than the undergraduate system, still were pretty heavy handed in insuring minority admission.
Affirmative Action is here to stay for organizations that are smart enough to apply it correctly and not take the easy way out. That means giving credit to minority applicants who demonstrate a capability to overcome previous handicaps, not just for being a minority.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
What about an African who comes from Africa. He gets the exact same special allowances based SOLELY on the color of his skin. That's why this crap is stupid. What about a poor white kid whose family has always been dirt poor and who's Irish ancestors were oppressed back in the 1800's? Basing admission off the color of your skin is as racist as hating somebody for the color of their skin...either way your decision is based on skin color.
People like you, MB, need the affirmation you get from feeling like an enlightened individual whether you actually are or not. In this very post you have presented anybody who might be against using skin color as a criteria for admission to higher education as a spiteful hillbilly because you need to believe that's what they are since you're actually on the side of prejudice--the side that says you can't go to the school because of the color of your skin. You don't grasp the concept that people against AA are not therefore against people with dark skin. Either that or you do grasp it and you choose to portray them in that way anyway since it makes you look like a champion of civil rights infront of a bunch of message board nerds.
This decision doesn't affect me. I'm out of school. My wife is out of school. My child is half-Latin and will be able to use the system whichever way it is. Some of us just hate racism...forward or reverse.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
Have you studied the colonial history of Africa? Where do you think most slaves originated? Who were the colonial powers? As for your poor white kid, she gets 20 pts which was not challenged by the Supreme Court. Are you pissed that a poor white, redheaded stepchild is going to take YOUR spot at Ann Arbor just b/c her parents are too lazy (or incompetent) to climb the socioeconomic ladder?
Basing admissions on skin hue is indeed racist but its the only reason many Jews could get a college degree during the first half of the 20th century and the only reason blacks and Native Americans (outside of Dartmouth or Princeton) were denied equal opportunity well into the 1970s. Equal opportunity still does not exist b/c K-12 (urban and rural South) sux. Education is the great equalizer and if my kid cannot get into Ann Arbor b/c they give 30pts for "disadvantaged students = bank account poor" . . . I'm going to console her with . . . "Stanford is a decent alternative."
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
HBCU already have AA and "majority-minority" scholarships. In the same manner that diversity improves the climate of "majority" colleges and universities; administrators at HBCUs recognize the necessary presence of a critical mass of non-minority students. In fact, many elite tennis and golf programs look just like their non-HBCU counterparts.
Nitemare
Lifer
Attack of the white people
I say no more white pride vs black pride. Let's remove race questions from every document. As far as I'm concerned we are all a member of the same race...the human race. The sooner we stop seeing black and white, the sooner we can end this bickering.
doesnt affirmative action also affect women? why haven't people been protesting the fact that women are also a beneficiary of affirmative action programs? people against affirmative action mainly focus the fact that minorities benefit, because they are easy targets, but when it comes to women they are suddenly silent. better be, because their sister or friend or mother could benefit from it, but who cares about that black kid who's fully qualified to go to college, but doesn't have as high test scores as his preppy peers?
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
Originally posted by: drewshin
doesnt affirmative action also affect women? why haven't people been protesting the fact that women are also a beneficiary of affirmative action programs? people against affirmative action mainly focus the fact that minorities benefit, because they are easy targets, but when it comes to women they are suddenly silent. better be, because their sister or friend or mother could benefit from it, but who cares about that black kid who's fully qualified to go to college, but doesn't have as high test scores as his preppy peers?
Once again...all opponents to AA are closet KKK members. Thanks for the insight, Drew.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
A beautiful sentiment . . . open a collection of yearbooks from the U of M dating from 1817 to 1960 . . . it's really easy not to see black isn't it?
Lets end handicapping while I'm ahead. We were wrong. Now let's all play fair. No more advantages for the psychologically destroyed. Racial bigotry is self hate turned against the other guy. It will never end till people see their own internal lie. There's nothing wrong with anybody. It would be nice to know it.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
Children aren't born psychologically destroyed. Their family and a patronizing society psychologically destroy them if they allow them to.
Quick, somebody call Condoleeza and let her know she's psychologically destroyed. Remind her that she can't be National Security Advisor without being white. Tell Oprah to give back her money and wait for whitie to throw her a bone. Go around to every well employed black person in America and whisper to them that they're only there because the white man pities them. Make sure no black generation ever grows up believing they're on equal footing. I'm sure each and every one would kindly thank you, MB, for your humanity.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
Irrational generalizations? Is that kind of like saying that if an ethnic minority doesn't qualify for a particular college that the reason they didn't qualify is because they're an ethnic minority? Maybe some of them grew up feeling oppressed and disheartened at being an ethnic minority and the consequent mindset affected their academic abilities, but certainly not all.
Isn't AA predicated on generalizations?
Isn't AA predicated on generalizations?
ConclamoLudus
Senior member
He sure does write well for being illiterate though. 😛
Oh crap, you mean I have to explain. Look, being able to cite a few exceptional, statistically anomalous, rare and otherwise unusual examples of something does not change the statistical truth of the average. On average blacks suffer from past and continuing prejudice. It does not mean that it can't be overcome. The point of the notion of remedy is that it can. You don't try to fix the impossibly broken. You stated, "Their family and a patronizing society psychologically destroy them if they allow them to." This is pure BS. There is on personal salvation from this. You are able to resist it only if your parents or somebody somewhere in your live gives you some sense of your own inner worth. If you here only the opposite, even superman is lost. Further you said, "Go around to every well employed black person in America and whisper to them that they're only there because the white man pities them. Make sure no black generation ever grows up believing they're on equal footing. I'm sure each and every one would kindly thank you, MB, for your humanity." following my post in which what I said was, "Racial bigotry is self hate turned against the other guy. It will never end till people see their own internal lie. There's nothing wrong with anybody. It would be nice to know it." To have made the point you did on top of what I really said makes you sound sort of like a prick.
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