Supreme Court rules Family Dollar...

[SilthDraeth]

http://www.reuters.com/article.../idUSTRE59447W20091005

Cliffs:
Supreme Court upholds that Family dollar must pay managers over time.


So any AT Lawyers, or anything out here...

My mom has been a manager for the Family Dollar stores for several years, granted she wasn't a manager when the original suit was filed for this case.

She has been working tons of OT, 50-70 hours a week, minimum of 52, and usually around 60.

She had been trying to find out how to go about getting her OT pay, but any local lawyers, etc wouldn't contact her back. Also, all her employee records are being held at the District Manager's house, vs at a company owned location.

We are wondering now, that the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the managers, how do we go about insuring she gets properly compensated?

Thanks.

 

[Vette73]

The case was just tunred down. It will take a little time for it to trickle down to the store level. I say give it a month and ask the Reg. Mgr. about it. If nothing happens then, contcat the state board that would cover that for your state.
No need for a lawyer, at least for now.



But this case will affect many other retailers like parts stores and such that do not pay OT to mangers.

 

[techs]

Usually you can contact your states equivalent of the Wage and Hour division.

I was involved in one of these cases, and after the court ruling the company fixed it for everyone, without those not involved in the lawsuit also included.
If they don't fix the problem, pay back wages, pay overtime from now on, they can be sued for even bigger bucks pretty easily, since the their losing the lawsuits means they know their policies were wrong.

 

[SunnyD]

Does your mom have PROOF of time worked? If not, she's screwed.

 

[krunchykrome]

what classifies an employee as being exempt or non-exempt?

Are the managers salaried? It's my understanding that salaried employees don't receive overtime. Bonuses maybe, but not overtime.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
what classifies an employee as being exempt or non-exempt?

Are the managers salaried? It's my understanding that salaried employees don't receive overtime. Bonuses maybe, but not overtime.

http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
what classifies an employee as being exempt or non-exempt?

Are the managers salaried? It's my understanding that salaried employees don't receive overtime. Bonuses maybe, but not overtime.

Salary is a type of pay, and you can be salaried and still receive overtime. Exempt and Non-exempt refer to being exempt from the regulations of the FLSA or non-exempt from the regulations. The FLSA governs OT, Minimum Wage, and Child Labor (as a general overview).

Exempt employee do not receive OT, non-exempt do. There are a set number of exemptions (Executive, Administrative, Learned Profession, Computer Employee, Highly Compensated, Outside-Sales), that have a set duties that must be fulfilled. In this case, the Store Managers did not meet the Executive exemption duties test, and were deemed to be non-exempt, and thusly be paid OT.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: techs
Usually you can contact your states equivalent of the Wage and Hour division.

I was involved in one of these cases, and after the court ruling the company fixed it for everyone, without those not involved in the lawsuit also included.
If they don't fix the problem, pay back wages, pay overtime from now on, they can be sued for even bigger bucks pretty easily, since the their losing the lawsuits means they know their policies were wrong.

It's my understanding that Family Dollar was already found in willful violation.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
what classifies an employee as being exempt or non-exempt?

Are the managers salaried? It's my understanding that salaried employees don't receive overtime. Bonuses maybe, but not overtime.

http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

thanks, just read through some of that

it's just a bit strange because it states that a "learned" profession is exempt. For example, it specifically states that accountants are exempt, among other professional jobs. My wife however is a physical therapist, and her position required a undergrad and graduate degree, as well as a state license. Yet, she receives overtime, and time-and-a-half on weekends. 😕

Another thing, I don't understand how the manager postion at Family Dollar is non-exempt. Reading through that website, it states that jobs with executive duties are exempt as well as definitions of those duties. I dont see how those definitions of executive duties woulldn't apply to a manager at dollar tree.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
what classifies an employee as being exempt or non-exempt?

Are the managers salaried? It's my understanding that salaried employees don't receive overtime. Bonuses maybe, but not overtime.

http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

thanks, just read through some of that

it's just a bit strange because it states that a "learned" profession is exempt. For example, it specifically states that accountants are exempt, among other professional jobs. My wife however is a physical therapist, and her position required a undergrad and graduate degree, as well as a state license. Yet, she receives overtime, and time-and-a-half on weekends. 😕

Another thing, I don't understand how the manager postion at Family Dollar is non-exempt. Reading through that website, it states that jobs with executive duties are exempt as well as definitions of those duties. I dont see how those definitions of executive duties woulldn't apply to a manager at dollar tree.

Job titles don't determine exemption (e.g. you can have non-exempt accountants), it's the actual job duties (read: different from stated). The specifics for the Dollar Tree managers was that they spent the majority of their time performing clerical and stockroom duties and did not have hiring/firing authority in practice.

The job description can state whatever it wants, it's the actual "in practice" that matters. When the DOL audits a company for FLSA classification, they spend a hell of a lot of time in observation, and it's not fun to go through.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
what classifies an employee as being exempt or non-exempt?

Are the managers salaried? It's my understanding that salaried employees don't receive overtime. Bonuses maybe, but not overtime.

http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

thanks, just read through some of that

it's just a bit strange because it states that a "learned" profession is exempt. For example, it specifically states that accountants are exempt, among other professional jobs. My wife however is a physical therapist, and her position required a undergrad and graduate degree, as well as a state license. Yet, she receives overtime, and time-and-a-half on weekends. 😕

Another thing, I don't understand how the manager postion at Family Dollar is non-exempt. Reading through that website, it states that jobs with executive duties are exempt as well as definitions of those duties. I dont see how those definitions of executive duties woulldn't apply to a manager at dollar tree.

Job titles don't determine exemption (e.g. you can have non-exempt accountants), it's the actual job duties (read: different from stated). The specifics for the Dollar Tree managers was that they spent the majority of their time performing clerical and stockroom duties and did not have hiring/firing authority in practice.

The job description can state whatever it wants, it's the actual "in practice" that matters. When the DOL audits a company for FLSA classification, they spend a hell of a lot of time in observation, and it's not fun to go through.

So who did the hiring and firing? Performance evals? Managing staff on a day to day basis?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
thanks, just read through some of that

it's just a bit strange because it states that a "learned" profession is exempt. For example, it specifically states that accountants are exempt, among other professional jobs. My wife however is a physical therapist, and her position required a undergrad and graduate degree, as well as a state license. Yet, she receives overtime, and time-and-a-half on weekends. 😕

Another thing, I don't understand how the manager postion at Family Dollar is non-exempt. Reading through that website, it states that jobs with executive duties are exempt as well as definitions of those duties. I dont see how those definitions of executive duties woulldn't apply to a manager at dollar tree.

Job titles don't determine exemption (e.g. you can have non-exempt accountants), it's the actual job duties (read: different from stated). The specifics for the Dollar Tree managers was that they spent the majority of their time performing clerical and stockroom duties and did not have hiring/firing authority in practice.

The job description can state whatever it wants, it's the actual "in practice" that matters. When the DOL audits a company for FLSA classification, they spend a hell of a lot of time in observation, and it's not fun to go through.

Not only that, but just because a job qualifies for exemption in practice it doesn't mean that everyone who has that job will be salaried with no overtime. There may be a union contract that dictates and hourly rate with overtime or it may simply be the convention within a certain industry. Either of these may explain why Krunchy's wife is paid OT.

Obviously, you can't go the other way and pay a person in a non-exempt job as though they had an exempt job.

An interesting thing about salaried non-exempt positions though is that the "salary" can be for an expected base hours per week of more than 40. That is to say, a company could hire a salaried non-exempt person and specify that the salary assumes 55 hours/week of work. On weeks when the employee works less than 55 hours, the employee still would get the full salary, and on weeks where the employee works more than 55 hours he or she would be paid overtime at an hourly rate that is equal to 1.5 times the weekly salary divided by 55 hours.

ZV

 

[calvinbiss]

The basis of the case is that Family Dollar was wronly classifying employees as managers to get out of paying them overtime. If your mother is actually a manager, than she is not entitled to any back pay of overtime based on this case.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
what classifies an employee as being exempt or non-exempt?

Are the managers salaried? It's my understanding that salaried employees don't receive overtime. Bonuses maybe, but not overtime.

http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

thanks, just read through some of that

it's just a bit strange because it states that a "learned" profession is exempt. For example, it specifically states that accountants are exempt, among other professional jobs. My wife however is a physical therapist, and her position required a undergrad and graduate degree, as well as a state license. Yet, she receives overtime, and time-and-a-half on weekends. 😕

Another thing, I don't understand how the manager postion at Family Dollar is non-exempt. Reading through that website, it states that jobs with executive duties are exempt as well as definitions of those duties. I dont see how those definitions of executive duties woulldn't apply to a manager at dollar tree.

Job titles don't determine exemption (e.g. you can have non-exempt accountants), it's the actual job duties (read: different from stated). The specifics for the Dollar Tree managers was that they spent the majority of their time performing clerical and stockroom duties and did not have hiring/firing authority in practice.

The job description can state whatever it wants, it's the actual "in practice" that matters. When the DOL audits a company for FLSA classification, they spend a hell of a lot of time in observation, and it's not fun to go through.

So who did the hiring and firing? Performance evals? Managing staff on a day to day basis?

All decision making was defered to District Managers, and the Store Managers spent a max of 10 hours per week on other managerial tasks, making them minimal compared to their other duties (which were clerical and stockroom).

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: calvinbiss
The basis of the case is that Family Dollar was wronly classifying employees as managers to get out of paying them overtime. If your mother is actually a manager, than she is not entitled to any back pay of overtime based on this case.

ALL the mangers are not exampt. The hiring/firing was done by the Reg. manager and managers at the store were glorified clerks with a key.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
what classifies an employee as being exempt or non-exempt?

Are the managers salaried? It's my understanding that salaried employees don't receive overtime. Bonuses maybe, but not overtime.

http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

thanks, just read through some of that

it's just a bit strange because it states that a "learned" profession is exempt. For example, it specifically states that accountants are exempt, among other professional jobs. My wife however is a physical therapist, and her position required a undergrad and graduate degree, as well as a state license. Yet, she receives overtime, and time-and-a-half on weekends. 😕

Another thing, I don't understand how the manager postion at Family Dollar is non-exempt. Reading through that website, it states that jobs with executive duties are exempt as well as definitions of those duties. I dont see how those definitions of executive duties woulldn't apply to a manager at dollar tree.

Job titles don't determine exemption (e.g. you can have non-exempt accountants), it's the actual job duties (read: different from stated). The specifics for the Dollar Tree managers was that they spent the majority of their time performing clerical and stockroom duties and did not have hiring/firing authority in practice.

The job description can state whatever it wants, it's the actual "in practice" that matters. When the DOL audits a company for FLSA classification, they spend a hell of a lot of time in observation, and it's not fun to go through.

So who did the hiring and firing? Performance evals? Managing staff on a day to day basis?

All decision making was defered to District Managers, and the Store Managers spent a max of 10 hours per week on other managerial tasks, making them minimal compared to their other duties (which were clerical and stockroom).

I dunno, I'm not saying that the store managers didn't spend most of their time doing non-managerial tasks- that may be the case. However, they are still managers. What else are they supposed to do in a dollar tree? What do managers at retail stores do? They're often on the floor, often times running cash registers, etc. I remember when I worked at The Gap when I was in high school, the store managers would spend most of their time on the register, or folding clothes, or helping customers.

I'd be curious as to what the job title was that was offered by family dollar and accepted by these employees. Was something signed by both parties acknowleding the managerial position was accepted? Were the job duties written on paper and signed by both parties acknowleding them? If so, I don't see an issue.

When I was in public accounting, I worked 60-70 hour work weeks, and we were not eligible for overtime. Was it fair? Probably not. Did I complain, no. And technically, I would have no room to complain, because by definition (accounting profession), I was exempt. What did I spend most of time time doing? I did do some accounting work, but much of my time was spent performing non-technical tasks like speaking to people on the phone, or at a client's office discussing things, or emailing people, etc etc. It still doesn't give me room to complain that I should be non-exempt just because I spend most of my time doing "other" tasks.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

I dunno, I'm not saying that the store managers didn't spend most of their time doing non-managerial tasks- that may be the case. However, they are still managers. What else are they supposed to do in a dollar tree? What do managers at retail stores do? They're often on the floor, often times running cash registers, etc. I remember when I worked at The Gap when I was in high school, the store managers would spend most of their time on the register, or folding clothes, or helping customers.

I'd be curious as to what the job title was that was offered by family dollar and accepted by these employees. Was something signed by both parties acknowleding the managerial position was accepted? Were the job duties written on paper and signed by both parties acknowleding them? If so, I don't see an issue.

When I was in public accounting, I worked 60-70 hour work weeks, and we were not eligible for overtime. Was it fair? Probably not. Did I complain, no. And technically, I would have no room to complain, because by definition (accounting profession), I was exempt. What did I spend most of time time doing? I did do some accounting work, but much of my time was spent on the phone, or at a client's office discussing things, or emailing people, etc etc. It still doesn't give me room to complain that I should be non-exempt just because I spend most of my time doing "other" tasks.

Dude, the point is, according to federal law, they are not allowed to be exempted from the OT provisions. You can't sign that away. If your Store Managers at the gap were in the same position as these retail managers, then they had the right to complain to the DOL.

If your duties don't meet an exemption test, and you are classified as exempt, then you DO have the right to complain. Let me guess though...most of the time you were discussing things, or on the phone, or emailing people, you were exercising independent judgment and thought process that come with a high degree of learning. Am I wrong? If I am, then you DO have the right to complain.

 

[Triumph]

Why do they get overtime pay and not salary pay?

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: Triumph
Why do they get overtime pay and not salary pay?

You can get both.

Example:

Given that I am non-exempt, if have a set salary of $500 for 40 hours of work and work 45 hours, I will receive $593.75 less applicable deductions and taxes. If I have a set salary of $500 for 40 hours of work and work 36 hours, I will receive $500 less applicable deductions and taxes (if I didn't have a deductable event such as FMLA, personal leave other than sickness, etc.).

 

[SilthDraeth]

To put it in perspective, as a manager at family dollar, my mom's daily duties pretty much include.

Opening the store at 7:30 am, or earlier, sometimes as early as 6am to recieve the truck, putting away all the merchandise from the truck, at the same time running the register, all by herself, she is given enough hours for 2 cashiers to work 20 hours a week. So often times she opens alone, has a cashier for mid day, then closes the store alone. She can't just fire someone either, that has to go up to the district manager. If she makes any schedule changes, it has to get approved above her. If one employee calls out sick, and they shift needs covered by an employee that makes more, she can only cover part of the shift with an hourly employee and she has to basically cover the rest herself.
But predominately she is:

She is the main cashier
runs the register
doesn't recieve lunch breaks even if she has a cashier with her etc.

So yeah most of that falls outside what would be considered a salary position exempt from overtime.

 

[SilthDraeth]

Oh and yes, she didn't sign anything putting her in the manager position, she went from an assistant manager, able to receive overtime, to manager without signing a single sheet of paper.

 

[SilthDraeth]

Hey, so from what my mom gathered so far, the lawsuit is only paying out to those that were signed onto the class action lawsuit filed in 2001, and they had until Feb 203 to sign on board. So those are the only people getting payed from this ruling as far as we can tell...

So does my mom have to contact the fair labor board? She is afraid that the company will find some way to fire her, and make something up if she contacts them individually.

 

[guyver01]

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
Oh and yes, she didn't sign anything putting her in the manager position, she went from an assistant manager, able to receive overtime, to manager without signing a single sheet of paper.

So.. the minute she found out she was promoted to a manager without her authorization.. did she contact the HR Department and say she never applied for the position nor accepted it and wanted immediately to be switched back to an Assistant Manager?

What??
no she didnt??


too bad. so sad.

 

[SilthDraeth]

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
Oh and yes, she didn't sign anything putting her in the manager position, she went from an assistant manager, able to receive overtime, to manager without signing a single sheet of paper.

So.. the minute she found out she was promoted to a manager without her authorization.. did she contact the HR Department and say she never applied for the position nor accepted it and wanted immediately to be switched back to an Assistant Manager?

What??
no she didnt??


too bad. so sad.

Right, because people run to HR any time they feel there is some sort of problem in normal times, let alone in a bad economy, with businesses closing, unprecedented unemployment rates, and fear of being fired/reprimanded despite all assurances otherwise.

How about you get out of my thread, as I was asking for help, not worthless trolls.