Supreme Court decision allows eviction (gov subsidized housing) of families if 1 member (or guest) is involved in drugs

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Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<<

<< And what would you do, legalize drugs? >>



Yes.
Some are already legal; don't pretend alcohol is somehow different.
>>



I can have a beer and it not hurt me. I can't do coke and not have it hurt me.

Come on glen, you can do better than that.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81


<<

<< Only a Republican thinks it make sense for:
Alcohol to be legal
Pot to be illegal
Tobacco to be legal
>>



And what would you do, legalize drugs?
>>



No all of them. Pot should be legal.


 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<<

<<

<< Only a Republican thinks it make sense for:
Alcohol to be legal
Pot to be illegal
Tobacco to be legal
>>



And what would you do, legalize drugs?
>>



No all of them. Pot should be legal.
>>



There are enough health risks from smoking and broken homes from Alcoholism, why would you want to open it up to another addictive substance?
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81
Texmaster, you really could be a good Liberterain if you would work a bit on this issue.
I believe we would have fewer people using and abusing drugs if they were all legal.
And, those using, would commit fewwer crimes.
And, the number of folks in prison would be lower.
 

ScottyB

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2002
6,677
1
0


<< Only a Republican thinks it make sense for:
Alcohol to be legal
Pot to be illegal
Tobacco to be legal
>>


Yep, I personally think they should all be illegal. (Democrat BTW)
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81


<< well, if you're willing to give up your freedoms up there, fine. I'm not. I'll tell you what, you take all the American socialists, and we'll take all the Canadian libertarians/fiscal conservatives. Everybody will be happy then, right?
>>




Are you under the impression that we have no civil rights up here? Or do you think its illegal to own a gun?


Also, I have never met a canadian libertarian and I (yes me) would probably be considered right wing by most canadians.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81


<< There are enough health risks from smoking and broken homes from Alcoholism, why would you want to open it up to another addictive substance? >>



I think its legality makes many Alcoholics justify their alcoholism.

Were they all legal, people would have to see thing more clearly.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81


<< Yep, I personally think they should all be illegal. (Democrat BTW) >>



No problem here.
It is at least a consistant viewpoint.
 

Jerboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2001
5,190
0
0


<<

<<

<<

<< Only a Republican thinks it make sense for:
Alcohol to be legal
Pot to be illegal
Tobacco to be legal
>>



And what would you do, legalize drugs?
>>



No all of them. Pot should be legal.
>>



There are enough health risks from smoking and broken homes from Alcoholism, why would you want to open it up to another addictive substance?
>>




It should be:

Alcohol legal
Tobacco legal
synthetic mind altering substance illegal
opiates and it's derivatives should be illegal
Cannabis derivatives: undecided

That is, if you're living on your own expense.

If one is in Federally paid housing:

Alcohol illegal
Tobacco illegal
Pot illegal
All other mind altering substances illegal

Why? All these unnecessary items are purely optional and they tend to be expensive. I don't think the Federal Government should pay for them if they are going to be using their money on these stuff.

 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<< Texmaster, you really could be a good Liberterain if you would work a bit on this issue.
I believe we would have fewer people using and abusing drugs if they were all legal.
And, those using, would commit fewwer crimes.
And, the number of folks in prison would be lower.
>>



Funny how someone talks about working on an issue then throws out a statement without a shred of proof to back it up.

Forget the money issue. Think of the families effected if drug users were allowed in every home. What would happen to the children? How would they grow up? What would happen to child abuse, rape and assult in the home? Would people get an excuse in court because drugs are legal and could claim they were not in coltrol of themselves?

Its quite obvious it is you who have not fully grasped the consequences of legalizing drugs.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81


<< Forget the money issue. Think of the families effected if drug users were allowed in every home. What would happen to the children? How would they grow up? What would happen to child abuse, rape and assult in the home? Would people get an excuse in court because drugs are legal and could claim
they were not in coltrol of themselves?
>>



I think you're right. The US should try banning alcohol (they can call it 'prohibition'), since alcohol is evil and breaks up families. There'd be less crime, no drunkenness and society will benefit and everyone will live happily ever after.[/i] >>






<< Its quite obvious it is you who have not fully grasped the consequences of legalizing drugs. >>



I see the pot's calling the kettle black.


Legalizaing Pot and other non-adictive drugs won't do anything bad to society, though it certainly might help.

 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,536
16,306
146


<<

<< Texmaster, you really could be a good Liberterain if you would work a bit on this issue.
I believe we would have fewer people using and abusing drugs if they were all legal.
And, those using, would commit fewwer crimes.
And, the number of folks in prison would be lower.
>>



Funny how someone talks about working on an issue then throws out a statement without a shred of proof to back it up.

Forget the money issue. Think of the families effected if drug users were allowed in every home. What would happen to the children? How would they grow up? What would happen to child abuse, rape and assult in the home? Would people get an excuse in court because drugs are legal and could claim they were not in coltrol of themselves?

Its quite obvious it is you who have not fully grasped the consequences of legalizing drugs.
>>



Tex, you already know my challenge to this:

Please produce one person who's sole (or main) reason for not doing drugs is because they are illegal.

I posit that the illegality of drugs has done nothing to affect the rate of addiction, abuse, or even casual use of drugs.

The rate of drug abuse over the last forty years has changed only with education campaigns and the shifting of fads, and has never been affected by law enforcement tactics.

Meanwhile, I also posit that making narcotics illegal is in violation of the Constitution. The federal government has no power to do so. They needed a Constitutional amendment to ban alcohol, but not drugs? Think about that one.

And, finally, NOT fighting a war on drugs and driving the drug trade underground will SAVE lives. That's right. It will put dangerous drug dealing gangs and smugglers out of business and make life safer for non-users. Not to mention it will go a long way towards securing our nearly lost 4th and 5th Amendment rights.

Ask yourself this: When was the last time alcohol dealers did drive by shootings and gangland style murders?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81


<<

<<

<< Texmaster, you really could be a good Liberterain if you would work a bit on this issue.
I believe we would have fewer people using and abusing drugs if they were all legal.
And, those using, would commit fewwer crimes.
And, the number of folks in prison would be lower.
>>



Funny how someone talks about working on an issue then throws out a statement without a shred of proof to back it up.

Forget the money issue. Think of the families effected if drug users were allowed in every home. What would happen to the children? How would they grow up? What would happen to child abuse, rape and assult in the home? Would people get an excuse in court because drugs are legal and could claim they were not in coltrol of themselves?

Its quite obvious it is you who have not fully grasped the consequences of legalizing drugs.
>>



Tex, you already know my challenge to this:

Please produce one person who's sole (or main) reason for not doing drugs is because they are illegal.

I posit that the illegality of drugs has done nothing to affect the rate of addiction, abuse, or even casual use of drugs.

The rate of drug abuse over the last forty years has changed only with education campaigns and the shifting of fads, and has never been affected by law enforcement tactics.

Meanwhile, I also posit that making narcotics illegal is in violation of the Constitution. The federal government has no power to do so. They needed a Constitutional amendment to ban alcohol, but not drugs? Think about that one.

And, finally, NOT fighting a war on drugs and driving the drug trade underground will SAVE lives. That's right. It will put dangerous drug dealing gangs and smugglers out of business and make life safer for non-users. Not to mention it will go a long way towards securing our nearly lost 4th and 5th Amendment rights.

Ask yourself this: When was the last time alcohol dealers did drive by shootings and gangland style murders?
>>



We are on the same page here AO.

Tex

I ask you if drugs were made legal tomorrow whould you start using? Of course not and niether would anyone else who does'nt.

Illegal drugs make thugs very rich. Clog our courts and prisons with drug offenders instead of violent offenders. And kill more poeple because there is no oversight of quality. So it's the draino, or potasium sulfate these dealers use to cut the product that actually kill not the drug itself.
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
Um, drug users already are allowed in every home. Oh, wait, alcohol and tobacco are special, yes, I must have forgotten. Silly me.



<<

<< Texmaster, you really could be a good Liberterain if you would work a bit on this issue.
I believe we would have fewer people using and abusing drugs if they were all legal.
And, those using, would commit fewwer crimes.
And, the number of folks in prison would be lower.
>>



Funny how someone talks about working on an issue then throws out a statement without a shred of proof to back it up.

Forget the money issue. Think of the families effected if drug users were allowed in every home. What would happen to the children? How would they grow up? What would happen to child abuse, rape and assult in the home? Would people get an excuse in court because drugs are legal and could claim they were not in coltrol of themselves?

Its quite obvious it is you who have not fully grasped the consequences of legalizing drugs.
>>

 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
This is the first post of yours that I totally agree with.



<<

<<

<< Texmaster, you really could be a good Liberterain if you would work a bit on this issue.
I believe we would have fewer people using and abusing drugs if they were all legal.
And, those using, would commit fewwer crimes.
And, the number of folks in prison would be lower.
>>



Funny how someone talks about working on an issue then throws out a statement without a shred of proof to back it up.

Forget the money issue. Think of the families effected if drug users were allowed in every home. What would happen to the children? How would they grow up? What would happen to child abuse, rape and assult in the home? Would people get an excuse in court because drugs are legal and could claim they were not in coltrol of themselves?

Its quite obvious it is you who have not fully grasped the consequences of legalizing drugs.
>>



Tex, you already know my challenge to this:

Please produce one person who's sole (or main) reason for not doing drugs is because they are illegal.

I posit that the illegality of drugs has done nothing to affect the rate of addiction, abuse, or even casual use of drugs.

The rate of drug abuse over the last forty years has changed only with education campaigns and the shifting of fads, and has never been affected by law enforcement tactics.

Meanwhile, I also posit that making narcotics illegal is in violation of the Constitution. The federal government has no power to do so. They needed a Constitutional amendment to ban alcohol, but not drugs? Think about that one.

And, finally, NOT fighting a war on drugs and driving the drug trade underground will SAVE lives. That's right. It will put dangerous drug dealing gangs and smugglers out of business and make life safer for non-users. Not to mention it will go a long way towards securing our nearly lost 4th and 5th Amendment rights.

Ask yourself this: When was the last time alcohol dealers did drive by shootings and gangland style murders?
>>

 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81


<< This is the first post of yours that I totally agree with. >>


Theres hope for AO yet Ultima;)

If we could just get him to have some compassion and care about total strangers welfare we might win him over.

 

killface

Golden Member
Aug 17, 2001
1,416
0
0


<< There are enough health risks from smoking and broken homes from Alcoholism, why would you want to open it up to another addictive substance? >>


Pot's not physically addictive in the way alcohol and nicotine are.



<< I can have a beer and it not hurt me. I can't do coke and not have it hurt me. >>


Actually, you can - Considering the cocaine is pure. Also of all drugs (alcohol included) heroin (or any opiates) will do the least amount of harm to your body.

We need to change our attitudes towards drugs in this country. The war on drugs is a war on people and serves only to fill prisons. When a dealer is thrown in jail, it only makes room for another up and comer in the trade.

Actually, now that I think of it, what exactly is the reasoning for conservatives wanting pot to be illegal? I thought conservatives wanted the governemt out of their lives.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,536
16,306
146


<<

<< This is the first post of yours that I totally agree with. >>


Theres hope for AO yet Ultima;)

If we could just get him to have some compassion and care about total strangers welfare we might win him over.
>>



This is where you're mistaken. I have plenty of compassion, and give generously to charities. I simply do not believe that the government has a right to force people to be charitable.
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<< Tex, you already know my challenge to this: >>



Yup I do :)



<< Please produce one person who's sole (or main) reason for not doing drugs is because they are illegal. >>



Any child who likes to experiment but doesn't want to risk getting caught for breaking the law. The same thing can be said about adults.



<< I posit that the illegality of drugs has done nothing to affect the rate of addiction, abuse, or even casual use of drugs. >>



I couldn't disagree more because more people would try them out of social and peer pressure and because they would be readily available.



<< The rate of drug abuse over the last forty years has changed only with education campaigns and the shifting of fads, and has never been affected by law enforcement tactics. >>



I'd like to see some stats on that.




<< Meanwhile, I also posit that making narcotics illegal is in violation of the Constitution. The federal government has no power to do so. They needed a Constitutional amendment to ban alcohol, but not drugs? Think about that one. >>



LOL The Government already oversteps its bounds on far too many issues to single out this one. I'll concede that though because I know you did the research.



<< And, finally, NOT fighting a war on drugs and driving the drug trade underground will SAVE lives. That's right. It will put dangerous drug dealing gangs and smugglers out of business and make life safer for non-users. Not to mention it will go a long way towards securing our nearly lost 4th and 5th Amendment rights. >>



I disagree. Drugs will still cost money even if they are legal so gangs will still be around.



<< Ask yourself this: When was the last time alcohol dealers did drive by shootings and gangland style murders? >>



Ask yourself how many children will fall victim to the addiction because now its not only available but legal? How many more people will be under the influence of drugs stealing, murdering, raping and beating their children?

Will they get a pass because drgs are legal and its the governemnt's fault for making them legal and that led them to become addicted?

And who is going to pay for the MASSIVE amount of rehab centeres that would undoubtably pop up after drugs were legalized?

You have far too much faith in people's morality for drug use to not go up.

And the money issue is mute because drugs are not that expensive today and its the money that controls crime. All you would be doing is making legitimate businessmen out of drug dealers. And with more people using means more violence in the home from drug enduced episodes and more crimes committed to get the money for the drugs. Not to mention the skyrocketing costs of rehab.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81


<< << I posit that the illegality of drugs has done nothing to affect the rate of addiction, abuse, or even casual use of drugs. >>



I couldn't disagree more because more people would try them out of social and peer pressure and because they would be readily available.
>>



The evidence in Holland is clearly the opposite.
Fewer teens there have tried pot.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81


<< << And, finally, NOT fighting a war on drugs and driving the drug trade underground will SAVE lives. That's right. It will put dangerous drug dealing gangs and smugglers out of business and make life safer for non-users. Not to mention it will go a long way towards securing our nearly lost 4th and 5th Amendment rights. >>



I disagree. Drugs will still cost money even if they are legal so gangs will still be around.
>>



Having purchased pot in both countries, I can tell you it is clearly safer to do in Holland.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81


<< Outrageous! Is it a crime to be poor? >>



In a libertarin society, no.

But, what if your being poor, means I HAVE to give up some of my earnings to support you in the house I paid for, and you are smoking up!?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,536
16,306
146


<<

<< Tex, you already know my challenge to this: >>



Yup I do :)
>>





<<

<< Please produce one person who's sole (or main) reason for not doing drugs is because they are illegal. >>



Any child who likes to experiment but doesn't want to risk getting caught for breaking the law. The same thing can be said about adults.
>>



Sorry, but I don't buy it.



<<

<< I posit that the illegality of drugs has done nothing to affect the rate of addiction, abuse, or even casual use of drugs. >>



I couldn't disagree more because more people would try them out of social and peer pressure and because they would be readily available.
>>



Are you kidding me? When I was in Jr High and High school, it was easier for my buddies and me to score pot and coke than it was to buy beer and cigarettes. Drug dealers are everywhere, and none of them card.



<<

<< The rate of drug abuse over the last forty years has changed only with education campaigns and the shifting of fads, and has never been affected by law enforcement tactics. >>



I'd like to see some stats on that.
>>



Examples of the shifting fads:

The crack craze of the eighties

The reemergance of Heroin in the 90s

The fact that the rate of pot users has fluctuated, but never really gone down.

I cann't find a chart yet. When I do I'll post it.

However, we have the highest rate of abuse of any industrialized nation, and also spend the most money attempting to fight drugs.




<<

<< Meanwhile, I also posit that making narcotics illegal is in violation of the Constitution. The federal government has no power to do so. They needed a Constitutional amendment to ban alcohol, but not drugs? Think about that one. >>



LOL The Government already oversteps its bounds on far too many issues to single out this one. I'll concede that though because I know you did the research.
>>



Thanks.



<<

<< And, finally, NOT fighting a war on drugs and driving the drug trade underground will SAVE lives. That's right. It will put dangerous drug dealing gangs and smugglers out of business and make life safer for non-users. Not to mention it will go a long way towards securing our nearly lost 4th and 5th Amendment rights. >>



I disagree. Drugs will still cost money even if they are legal so gangs will still be around.
>>



How many alcohol gangs are there? Tobacco gangs? Come on Tex...



<<

<< Ask yourself this: When was the last time alcohol dealers did drive by shootings and gangland style murders? >>



Ask yourself how many children will fall victim to the addiction because now its not only available but legal? How many more people will be under the influence of drugs stealing, murdering, raping and beating their children?
>>



I believe no more than we see today. If we sink the money we use on enforcement now into education and treatment, I believe far less. Holland is a perfect example of what happens when you take money from enforcement, and spend it on treatment and education. Their rate of abuse is a tiny fraction of ours, yet drug use is not criminalized, and pot is sold in stores.



<< Will they get a pass because drgs are legal and its the governemnt's fault for making them legal and that led them to become addicted? >>



No, harming others will remain illegal, and intoxication will still not be a valid defense. Just as it is not with alcohol.



<< And who is going to pay for the MASSIVE amount of rehab centeres that would undoubtably pop up after drugs were legalized? >>



We could literally flood the country with first class plush rehab clinics with the money now spend on enforcement.



<< You have far too much faith in people's morality for drug use to not go up. >>



It's not a question of morality. It's a question of survival. The vast majority of people do not do drugs because they recognize that drugs ruin your life. The ones who do do drugs already don't care about their lives. NEITHER are much affected by the illegality of drugs.



<< And the money issue is mute because drugs are not that expensive today and its the money that controls crime. All you would be doing is making legitimate businessmen out of drug dealers. And with more people using means more violence in the home from drug enduced episodes and more crimes committed to get the money for the drugs. Not to mention the skyrocketing costs of rehab. >>



How many alcoholics do you see committing crimes to get their next bottle? Not very many.

Tex, I'm sorry and I know you've led a drug free life. But because of this you have no idea what you're talking about. Cocaine costs, gram for gram, more than 20 times the price of gold. A gram of decent quality of cocaine runs about $130. Gold is what, about $350 an ounce? Hell, Pot costs, ounce for ounce more than gold. A gram of decent pot is running $25+.

These prices exist because of the illegality of drugs. In the 1920s, during prohibition, a shot of good booze cost $5.00. Before prohibition it was less tha a nickle, and was the same price soon after repeal.

The drug gangs are making billions of dollars, Tex. The bootleggers went out of business directly after prohibition, and changed their focus to drugs. Then the inner city minority gangs picked up the business and that's where we stand today.

Tex, I strongly suggest you read up on this, and look at it objectively. It's a good thing that you're ignorant about drugs and the drug trade because that means you've led a clean life. I wish I could say the same thing. But I've lived through the addiction andf drug trade and I know what I'm talking about.