Supercharged Jet Skis tend to be unreliable - why

[FiLeZz]

They don't make a single bike with forced induction of any kind.

Have you ever ridden a supercharged jet ski? I've ridden some standard ones and they seemed to have plenty of power even with up to 3 people on them and could hit close to 50mph. Not sure why you'd want to go any faster than that unless you were racing it.

Honda made a turbo motorcycle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CX_series#mediaviewer/File:Honda_CX500_Turbo.jpg

Pretty sure Yamaha made one as well...

 

[FiLeZz]

I also owned a few Honda skis, turbo versions and they never had an issue..

 

[JulesMaximus]

Honda made a turbo motorcycle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CX_series#mediaviewer/File:Honda_CX500_Turbo.jpg

Pretty sure Yamaha made one as well...

"They don't make" kind of implies current production bikes... not a bike that was only produced for one year in the 1980s. :sneaky:

 

[RLGL]

The biggest issue with marine products is total neglect with respect to maintenance by the owners. Next on the list is the fact they are not used regularly. Next is fuel quality, it varies during the season and is not consistent throughout large areas. The fuels deteriorate in quality in as little as 3 weeks from the date dispensed from a vendor. And lastly the units are abused when they are being used by the owners.
They are not like cars and need TLC all the time. This costs when being performed by a dealer. This stuff is high buck to care for.

 

[slag]

How about this? Two stroke motor has no oil sump and there is no provision for lubricating the bearings on the supercharger? Just a guess and probably a wrong one. I had a Pontiac (Buick maybe, it was a long time ago) with a supercharger and there was an oil reservoir built into it. The oil was supposed to be changed on a maintenance schedule so I see no reason a supercharger on a PWC couldn't be set up the same way.

There are no supercharged 2 stroke skis, they are all 4 stroke, and the supercharger has its own oil reservoir.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

As a former test rider for seadoo I would urge you to consider a yamaha

So per your suggestion I have spent a bit of time looking at the Yamaha lineup. Man they get good reviews!

What are your thoughts on their new SVHO engine? Is it worth it in your opinion?

 

[Zenmervolt]

I don't know of any production super or turbocharged motorcycles.

Honda CX 500 and CX 650 Turbo. Factory turbo bikes built in '82 and '83.

They were largely technological showcase bikes, but they were regular production. Of course, no-one bought them and each only lasted for one year, but they were still factory turbo bikes.

ZV

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Yes, and cool bikes.. I meant currently, not at any point in time.

I could be mistaken, but I thought kawi also made a gpz turbo in the early 80's. Like the hondas, probably not popular or really mass produced.

 

[RGUN]

We've had lots of SeaDoos at our place. Currently there are 3 parked there. Mine is a 2012 RXPX which as you know is supercharged. Also have naturally aspirated and suspended models. The superchargers need rebuild because they are subject to much more abuse than in a car. The superchargers are spinning at exceptionally high rpm and then the PWC jumps out of the water, causing the motor rpm to jump up, and lands, putting a shock on the entire drivetrain. Now the supercharger is spinning several times faster than the engine and imaging it (because it is gear driven) slowing down from 40,000 rpm to 30,000 rpm the instant you land. Not going to happen. So instead, they put friction clutches in them. These clutches allow slip under conditions like that. Slippage adds heat and wears the clutches. The seadoo maintenance interval has been extended to 200hours, and for you should be much less than $1000.

I bought the rxpx as a demo model in 2013 with 8 hours on it, I put 36 hours on it in 2013 which was riding pretty much every weekend in our short Canadian season. So far this year I'm up to 56hours,which included a 6 hour 140km ride last week. (FYI, I got 5.7mpg in mixed riding conditions in 6-8ft waves).

One thing to keep in mind if you fuel up on the water, most marinas in my area only have 87 or 89 octane fuel. The seadoo supercharged models recommend 91 but are also rated for 87. The yamaha (supercharged) models as far as I am aware are minimum 91 only.

If you have any specific questions I'm happy to answer them. I've got experience in all the new hull styles and we've got pretty much one of each style. So far they've been maintenance free except for a failed temperature sensor on my RXPX that was actually the subject of a recall.

In any case I would highly recommend the extended warranty. I got the 5 year extended warranty for mine free as part of their boat show promotional package.

PS I believe I posted a picture of mine at one point here when I first got it. It's changed appearance quite a bit since then but I'm still loving it just as much as day one.

 

[RGUN]

As another note to point out. We've had 5 SeaDoos total, with a total of close to 1000hours between them and we have never once had a significant problem. In fact, I believe the only actual repair we ever needed to do was voltage regulators, which are no longer a problem. Aside from that it's only been oil changes and winterization.

After reading the OPs follow ups, if you are looking for an exceptionally reliable ski that will do 55mph and in the used market, buy something like the GTI 130 SE or GTX 155. The same block is used in the supercharged ski's with twice the horsepower, so they are exceptionally reliable and lots of fun. The main differences if you are looking at 1-3 year old skis are going to be the hull styles available. The GTX will be an S3 style hull which is newer than the GTI style hull. It will ride much smoother and drier and in general be a more comfortable ride. In any case, I would recommend at least test riding both a Yamaha and a Seadoo. iBR is one feature you may like in the newer Sea-Doos (basically an electronic control over your forward/reverse/neutral lever). Having a mechanic that you trust local to you is another important factor. If you've only got Sea-Doo or Yamaha dealers in the area, I'd stick with them for convenience.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

We've had lots of SeaDoos at our place. Currently there are 3 parked there. Mine is a 2012 RXPX which as you know is supercharged. Also have naturally aspirated and suspended models. The superchargers need rebuild because they are subject to much more abuse than in a car. The superchargers are spinning at exceptionally high rpm and then the PWC jumps out of the water, causing the motor rpm to jump up, and lands, putting a shock on the entire drivetrain. Now the supercharger is spinning several times faster than the engine and imaging it (because it is gear driven) slowing down from 40,000 rpm to 30,000 rpm the instant you land. Not going to happen. So instead, they put friction clutches in them. These clutches allow slip under conditions like that. Slippage adds heat and wears the clutches. The seadoo maintenance interval has been extended to 200hours, and for you should be much less than $1000.

I bought the rxpx as a demo model in 2013 with 8 hours on it, I put 36 hours on it in 2013 which was riding pretty much every weekend in our short Canadian season. So far this year I'm up to 56hours,which included a 6 hour 140km ride last week. (FYI, I got 5.7mpg in mixed riding conditions in 6-8ft waves).

One thing to keep in mind if you fuel up on the water, most marinas in my area only have 87 or 89 octane fuel. The seadoo supercharged models recommend 91 but are also rated for 87. The yamaha (supercharged) models as far as I am aware are minimum 91 only.

If you have any specific questions I'm happy to answer them. I've got experience in all the new hull styles and we've got pretty much one of each style. So far they've been maintenance free except for a failed temperature sensor on my RXPX that was actually the subject of a recall.

In any case I would highly recommend the extended warranty. I got the 5 year extended warranty for mine free as part of their boat show promotional package.

PS I believe I posted a picture of mine at one point here when I first got it. It's changed appearance quite a bit since then but I'm still loving it just as much as day one.

Thanks for the information. Very informative.

I have spent quite a bit of time on a GTI 155 limited (non-supercharged) and have had a good time on it. It hit 59-60 MPH in dead flat conditions, so it was plenty fast and it had the S3 hull so I know what that feels like. I've also spent quite a bit of time on older waverunners and I have liked them alot as well.

I dropped into a dealer the other day that stocks all three of the major manufacturers. Kawasaki was immediately ruled out because there is no Kawasaki mechanic or dealer near to where the ski will be used. So I am trying to decide between the GTI 155 limited (Sea Doo) and the Yamaha FX HO or HO Cruiser. As I see it the Yamaha has a better reputation for reliability, has a bit more power (180HP vs 155HP), is a bit longer (140" vs. 132"), has a lot more storage space, and has a more comfortable seat (IMO), relative to the Sea Doo. In contrast the Sea Doo has a nicer hull, more bells and whistles in the center console, and two particularly attractive features - the on water brake and the fact that it starts in neutral.

Honestly I wish there was a ski that married the advantages of the FX HO with those of the GTI 155, but since there isn't this turning out to be a very hard decision.

TBH my mind may have been made up for me by the dealer yesterday. yesterday afternoon the dealer called and informed me that they just bought a slightly used 2012 FX HO Cruiser from an older man. It only has 14 hours on it and is in mint condition. They offered it to me for ~3.5k less than what I could buy a new one for, with a trailer, two covers, two PFD's and a safety kit included. If I can negotiated them down just a bit I might be buying it today.

 

[RGUN]

Yeah in the end you need to be happy with the deal you get as well so that should be a big factor. I personally would not include the water brake as a feature worth swaying ones decision. If you're on a PWC and there is an obstacle that suddenly appears in front of you, hitting the brake will stop you in 100+ft and you have little control over that at all once you've stabbed the brake. In less than half of that distance you could have turned hard or spun and gotten yourself out of trouble.

I think the brake is a bad idea, because in a panic people will grab the brake and find that it doesn't stop you quickly instead of driving out of the situation.

The GTI Limited and FX HO aren't really in the same class. I'd imagine the GTX155 would be a better suited apples to apples comparison.

One feature I would value is the cruise control. If you do any distance riding that feature is very helpful.

 

[Genx87]

Heh I dont understand the allure of going 80mph on a jet ski. I own two ancient but capable Jet Ski's. 1992 and 1993 Seadoo XP's. These get up to about 45mph but most of my time is spent going about 10-15mph getting these things to do fun tricks. One complaint I have about the models for about the past 10ish years. The things are huge. Basically a small boat which takes all the fun out of actually driving these things.

 

[RGUN]

Heh I dont understand the allure of going 80mph on a jet ski. I own two ancient but capable Jet Ski's. 1992 and 1993 Seadoo XP's. These get up to about 45mph but most of my time is spent going about 10-15mph getting these things to do fun tricks. One complaint I have about the models for about the past 10ish years. The things are huge. Basically a small boat which takes all the fun out of actually driving these things.

Mine goes 69mph and I rarely travel at that speed, but it's more about just how insanely hard it accelerates. Honestly at 70mph I am 100% occupied with scanning the water for kayaks, and waves. Things come up on you unbelievably quickly at that speed.

Based on your targets I'd say you're in luck with the Seadoo Spark. The big 4 strokes aren't really made to have fun in that way. They're too heavy and can damage themselves landing incorrectly. Motor mounts, hulls, fiddly plastic/electronic bits. Not super happy that I can no longer go out wave jumping, but at the same time I know that behaviour is most likely to cook the supercharger clutches, break mounts, and damage the drivetrain so I'm not interested in seeking it out.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Mine goes 69mph and I rarely travel at that speed, but it's more about just how insanely hard it accelerates. Honestly at 70mph I am 100% occupied with scanning the water for kayaks, and waves. Things come up on you unbelievably quickly at that speed.

Based on your targets I'd say you're in luck with the Seadoo Spark. The big 4 strokes aren't really made to have fun in that way. They're too heavy and can damage themselves landing incorrectly. Motor mounts, hulls, fiddly plastic/electronic bits. Not super happy that I can no longer go out wave jumping, but at the same time I know that behaviour is most likely to cook the supercharger clutches, break mounts, and damage the drivetrain so I'm not interested in seeking it out.

For me its not about how fast the ski goes, but how well it will perform while towing one or two skiers or tubers. The spark is just underpowered when it comes to that. The GTI 155 limited my friend has almost underpowered when there are two bigger guys on the machine (one driver, one spotter) and its pulling a a tube or skier.

I also want something that can double as a very small boat, as it is not uncommong for my family to take a ski out on the lake with a packed lunch, anchor somewhere and swim all day.

As for the spark . . . have you actually sat on one? It feels flimsy as hell.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

The GTI Limited and FX HO aren't really in the same class. I'd imagine the GTX155 would be a better suited apples to apples comparison.

One feature I would value is the cruise control. If you do any distance riding that feature is very helpful.

The GTI 155 limited and the FX HO both have cruise control.

I'm not sure how the GTX 155 is a better comparison to the FX HO . . . apart from having the S3 hull it is almost identical to the GTI 155 limited. They have the same 155HP normally aspirated engine. Did you mean the GTX Limited 215? If so, that is a supercharged model and thus out of consideration for me.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Yeah in the end you need to be happy with the deal you get as well so that should be a big factor. I personally would not include the water brake as a feature worth swaying ones decision. If you're on a PWC and there is an obstacle that suddenly appears in front of you, hitting the brake will stop you in 100+ft and you have little control over that at all once you've stabbed the brake. In less than half of that distance you could have turned hard or spun and gotten yourself out of trouble.

I agree in part on the brake. If you have any amount of experience on a ski you know that the best way to be safe is to avoid putting yourself in a situation where you could collide, and to steer out of any situations you might unexpectedly encounter. The brake has two main advantages for me:

1. Less experienced people will be more familiar with the concept of a brake than the counter intuitive notion that you need to apply throttle to turn.

2. The brake (and electronically controlled reverse) would make it much easier for me to dock the ski - important in my instance because the ski would be moored in a particularly tricky location.

 

[RGUN]

For me its not about how fast the ski goes, but how well it will perform while towing one or two skiers or tubers. The spark is just underpowered when it comes to that. The GTI 155 limited my friend is almost underpowered when there are two bigger guys on the machine (one driver, one spotter) and its pulling a a tube or skier.

I also want something that can double as a very small boat, as it is not uncommong for my family to take a ski out on the lake with a packed lunch, anchor somewhere and swim all day.

As for the spark . . . have you actually sat on one? It feels flimsy as hell.

Sorry I should have clarified, my comments on the spark were directed exclusively to Genx87. In your case the Spark would not be an option.

I don't share the same feeling as you regarding towing with the 155. We've pulled tubes, skis, slalom skis and wakeboards with ours and its never struggled. There is a ski mode that ramps throttle depending on how you've set it, but I haven't used that at all.

Make sure if you take one out to test that you put it in sport mode. World of difference between default (touring) mode and sport.

 

[RGUN]

The GTI 155 limited and the FX HO both have cruise control.

I'm not sure how the GTX 155 is a better comparison to the FX HO . . . apart from having the S3 hull it is almost identical to the GTI 155 limited. They have the same 155HP normally aspirated engine. Did you mean the GTX Limited 215? If so, that is a supercharged model and thus out of consideration for me.

We have one of each, the GTX is considered a part of the Luxury class which among many changes includes a different much more supportive seat (as you mentioned the Yamaha seat was superior to the GTI). Don't discount the different hull either, the hull will have a huge impact on your ability to enjoy the ski.

I can't offer any direct comparisons unfortunately. I've got experience on nearly all the current and non current Sea-Doo models but have to say I've never actually ridden a Yamaha.

Also, I would never say that supercharged jet skis are inherently unreliable or less reliable than their naturally aspirated counter parts. They simply require additional regular maintenance. Assuming their maintained, there is no reason they wouldn't last as long as any NA ski.

 

[DaTT]

... and the fact that it starts in neutral.

LOL, ask RGUN about starting in neutral. That was a funny incident. Had the real potential to be shitty, but in the end it worked out.

Also, as stated before, if you end up test driving a Sea Doo, be sure to try the different driving modes:

ECO: Limits you to 40mph with slow acceleration
Touring: Slow acceleration but can attain top speed
Sport: No limits and great acceleration, very sensitive throttle - awesome

Coming out of a 2001 GTX Sea Doo and into a 2013 GTI 130. The new one feels better in every way.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

So I ended up buying the 2012 FX HO Cruiser I mentioned last week. Got the ski, a basically new trailer (still had the tags on it), two covers, two PFD's, a safety kit and a bunch of dock stuff for $9495. Just about 4 grand less than I would have had to pay new.

Took the ski out on the lake this weekend and had a blast. Hit a top speed of 65 MPH this morning, which was scary fast. Spent most of Saturday cruising with my son. The cruise assist feature is awesome. And the mechanical neutral worked very very well. All in all I am a happy guy. I got a deal and love the ski. Win win.

 

[RGUN]

So I ended up buying the 2012 FX HO Cruiser I mentioned last week. Got the ski, a basically new trailer (still had the tags on it), two covers, two PFD's, a safety kit and a bunch of dock stuff for $9495. Just about 4 grand less than I would have had to pay new.

Took the ski out on the lake this weekend and had a blast. Hit a top speed of 65 MPH this morning, which was scary fast. Spent most of Saturday cruising with my son. The cruise assist feature is awesome. And the mechanical neutral worked very very well. All in all I am a happy guy. I got a deal and love the ski. Win win.

Congrats! All that's left is to go out and enjoy it as much as possible.

 

[Brian Stirling]

I had a 1999 Kawasaki 1200 triple two stroke ski that could do 70mph+ with the right conditions and I've fallen, several times, at about that speed. Let me tell you hitting the water at 70 ain't no picknick.

It kind of goes like this ... You hit the water at 70 and maybe skip a bit then you catch a wave or something and the next thing you know you're 10 feet below the surface wondering which way is up. When you get to the surface you gasp as the wind has been totally knocked out of you and for a minute or two you hope you will be able to breeth again. Then, after you are able to almost breeth you notice you're 200 feet away from your ski.

Good times...


Brian

 

[DaTT]

I had a 1999 Kawasaki 1200 triple two stroke ski that could do 70mph+ with the right conditions and I've fallen, several times, at about that speed. Let me tell you hitting the water at 70 ain't no picknick.

It kind of goes like this ... You hit the water at 70 and maybe skip a bit then you catch a wave or something and the next thing you know you're 10 feet below the surface wondering which way is up. When you get to the surface you gasp as the wind has been totally knocked out of you and for a minute or two you hope you will be able to breeth again. Then, after you are able to almost breeth you notice you're 200 feet away from your ski.

Good times...


Brian

Just exactly how does one fall off at that speed?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I had a 1999 Kawasaki 1200 triple two stroke ski that could do 70mph+ with the right conditions and I've fallen, several times, at about that speed. Let me tell you hitting the water at 70 ain't no picknick.

It kind of goes like this ... You hit the water at 70 and maybe skip a bit then you catch a wave or something and the next thing you know you're 10 feet below the surface wondering which way is up. When you get to the surface you gasp as the wind has been totally knocked out of you and for a minute or two you hope you will be able to breeth again. Then, after you are able to almost breeth you notice you're 200 feet away from your ski.

Good times...


Brian