• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Super rich see federal taxes drop dramatically

I

Infohawk

Lifer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110417/ap_on_re_us/us_no_taxes

Eric Schoenberg says to sign him up for paying higher taxes. Schoenberg, who inherited money and has a healthy portfolio from his days as an investment banker, has joined a group of other wealthy Americans called United for a Fair Economy. Their goal: Raise taxes on rich people like themselves.
Shoenberg, who now teaches a business class at Columbia University, said his income is usually "north of half a million a year." But 2009 was a bad year for investments, so his income dropped to a little over $200,000. His federal income tax bill was a little more than $2,000.
"I simply point out to people, `Do you think this is reasonable, that somebody in my circumstances should only be paying 1 percent of their income in tax?'" Schoenberg said.
Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, the top Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, said he has a solution for rich people who want to pay more in taxes: Write a check to the IRS. There's nothing stopping you.
Click to expand...

Orrin Hatch is an idiot. Another situation where both parties need to be more reasonable and meet in the middle. There's no need to tax wealth out of existence but a situation where someone making $500,000 a year paying only $2,000 is actually regressive taxation and is absurd. And these damned deductions for everything under the sun need to stop. We don't exactly have a small population, there's no need for a tax credit for having a kid. That's a choice one makes. Pay for it. Also, it's arguably the mortgage interest deduction that got created the housing bubble. And I'm tired of these people that pay no federal taxes at all. Unless you have ZERO income that is bullshit. Is it too much to ask that the deadbeats and super rich pay taxes too? The middle-class gets fucked again. [/Rant]
 
Infohawk said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110417/ap_on_re_us/us_no_taxes



Orrin Hatch is an idiot. Another situation where both parties need to be more reasonable and meet in the middle. There's no need to tax wealth out of existence but a situation where someone making $500,000 a year paying only $2,000 is actually regressive taxation and is absurd. And these damned deductions for everything under the sun need to stop. We don't exactly have a small population, there's no need for a tax credit for having a kid. That's a choice one makes. Pay for it. Also, it's arguably the mortgage interest deduction that got created the housing bubble. And I'm tired of these people that pay no federal taxes at all. Unless you have ZERO income that is bullshit. Is it too much to ask that the deadbeats and super rich pay taxes too? The middle-class gets fucked again. [/Rant]
Click to expand...

I agree that a wealthy person should be paying more than I am paying, all these deductions are bullshit.
Thats why I advocate for a much simpler tax code with far less deductions but a smaller rate.

But that guy should put his money where his mouth is and pay up that money to the IRS to pay down our debt. Nothing is stopping him.
 
Don't forget the part in the article where it states 45% of America pays no tax.

Everyone who can work should pay a percentage of their income to tax - no matter how little.

There may be a lot of rich guys paying little tax but there is a heck of a lot more regular guys paying NO TAX!
 
matt0611 said:
But that guy should put his money where his mouth is and pay up that money to the IRS to pay down our debt. Nothing is stopping him.
Click to expand...

You agree he should be paying more taxes than you but you want him to do it voluntarily? That's silly. That's not how taxes work. Nobody else would pay it and his measly contribution wouldn't change anything. Revenues needed to be generated by a larger group than that.

It's like saying you can't argue against social security unless you voluntarily give up your social security benefits when you retire. That's not reasonable. It's more reasonable to suggest that EVERYONE sacrifice some of their social security benefits or that EVERYONE gets taxed more or less.
 
Infohawk said:
You agree he should be paying more taxes than you but you want him to do it voluntarily? That's silly. That's not how taxes work. Nobody else would pay it and his measly contribution wouldn't change anything. Revenues needed to be generated by a larger group than that.

It's like saying you can't argue against social security unless you voluntarily give up your social security benefits when you retire. That's not reasonable. It's more reasonable to suggest that EVERYONE sacrifice some of their social security benefits or that EVERYONE gets taxed more or less.
Click to expand...


No, I want him to pay more more taxes than I do.

I want people who bitch about not paying enough taxes, to voluntarily pay up to the amount they think everyone else should, then I'll at least take them seriously.

BTW, I'm against SS, and I'll gladly give it up as long as I don't have to pay in any more.
 
matt0611 said:
No, I want him to pay more more taxes than I do.

I want people who bitch about not paying enough taxes, to voluntarily pay up to the amount they think everyone else should, then I'll at least take them seriously.

BTW, I'm against SS, and I'll gladly give it up as long as I don't have to pay in any more.
Click to expand...

Would you be willing to give up your SS but have to pay into it? I doubt it. But basically that's what you want that guy to do. You want him to make a sacrifice but not have his peers make the sacrifice. Another example, you're not allowed to advocate against animal cruelty unless you spend your whole weekends volunteering at a shelter. It's a pretty childish argument and a complete distraction.
 
Infohawk said:
Would you be willing to give up your SS but have to pay into it? I doubt it. But basically that's what you want that guy to do. You want him to make a sacrifice but not have his peers make the sacrifice. Another example, you're not allowed to advocate against animal cruelty unless you spend your whole weekends volunteering at a shelter. It's a pretty childish argument and a complete distraction.
Click to expand...


Answer to your first question, no.

I want him to make the sacrifice because hes advocating that other people do it. I don't advocate people sacrifice anything, this guy does.
Whats the difference if no one else makes the sacrifice but him?
Him sending in a check still makes a difference.
Why doesn't he lead by example and do it himself? I bet he won't though.

Your other example doesn't make any sense, because if I argue against animal cruelty all I have to do is not be cruel to animals and I won't be a hypocrite.
Why would I have to spend all my free time fighting it for?


If I thought people should pay more taxes then I would pay more myself before I advocated others to do so.

I actually advocate for less taxes, therefore if there was some way I could voluntarily opt-out of government services I do not want and pay less taxes, then I would just that.

Heres an example, its like if there was a checkbox on my taxes to opt-out of certain government services and get money back for doing so.
Then I advocate that we cut government services and taxes but I never check this box myself, that would make me a hypocrite.
 
Last edited:
matt0611 said:
I agree that a wealthy person should be paying more than I am paying, all these deductions are bullshit.
Thats why I advocate for a much simpler tax code with far less deductions but a smaller rate.

But that guy should put his money where his mouth is and pay up that money to the IRS to pay down our debt. Nothing is stopping him.
Click to expand...


If the US government were a charity would you give them money? I certainly wouldn't. I'd demand massive reorganization before I'd give them a dime and I think he's doing exactly the right thing.

The American people demanded lower taxes for themselves as well as the wealthy and the politicians came through. Giving them charity now is like giving a homeless wino a case of liquor. I'm sure people like Orrin Hatch would gladly help the country drink themselves to death and if you want to help him along just write a check.
 
Last edited:
matt0611 said:
Answer to your first question, no.
Click to expand...

So you're not advocating that we end social security? Sounds like you are. According to your logic you should lead the way and not accept any SS benefits, even if nobody else makes the same sacrifice. Actually you go further, you shouldn't even be arguing against ending SS benefits unless you pledge not to accept them yourself.
 
LagunaX said:
Don't forget the part in the article where it states 45% of America pays no tax.

Everyone who can work should pay a percentage of their income to tax - no matter how little.

There may be a lot of rich guys paying little tax but there is a heck of a lot more regular guys paying NO TAX!
Click to expand...

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-17350-9_things_the_rich_dont_want_you_to_know_about_taxes.html

Here even the bottom brackets pay 12% in state and local taxes, plus SS and Medicare...
 
LagunaX said:
Don't forget the part in the article where it states 45% of America pays no tax.
Everyone who can work should pay a percentage of their income to tax - no matter how little.

There may be a lot of rich guys paying little tax but there is a heck of a lot more regular guys paying NO TAX!
Click to expand...


There are so many breaks that 45 percent of U.S. households will pay no federal income tax for 2010, according to estimates by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.
Click to expand...
What you say is in fact, a lie.

They may not pay a federal INCOME tax, but they do pay taxes. Like I posted in this thread, I made basically no money and paid ~10% of my AGI to federal payroll taxes, plus I have to pay 9.5% state sales tax on stuff I buy.

Sure feels awesome paying like 20% of my AGI away in taxes. Oh wait, I forgot, I don't pay any because I'm poor.
 
Last edited:
When the super rich, through their extension the Republican party, got Republicans in Congress to state in writing that the absolute most important order of business for the federal government, to the exclusion of all else, is extending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy... I have no faith that anything will change until there is a revolution.
 
novasatori said:
That owns, in 2010 I made 1% of his income but paid 25% of the taxes he paid.
Click to expand...


With enough money donated to congressional campaigns you can even buy a flat out lifetime tax exemption. There are now some 450 people including Rupert Murdoch, richest man in America, who are personal income tax exempt by presidential decree.
 
wuliheron said:
With enough money donated to congressional campaigns you can even buy a flat out lifetime tax exemption. There are now some 450 people including Rupert Murdoch, richest man in America, who are personal income tax exempt by presidential decree.
Click to expand...

Will the accept food stamps? :sneaky:

(Note: I don't even get food stamps, 100% joke)
 
I can't believe they passed a law that makes it illegal to pay more in taxes than what you have to. Oh, wait, they didn't.

This kind of whining from liberal groups like "United for a fair economy" always rings very hollow to me. They complain about the tax rate but do everything in their power to reduce their level of taxation. I also can't help but notice how the term "fair" in the context of taxation ALWAYS seems to go along with a desire to force everyone to pay more taxes.

Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, the top Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, said he has a solution for rich people who want to pay more in taxes: Write a check to the IRS. There's nothing stopping you.
Click to expand...


100% Correct and spot on.

That said, I'd like to see an overhaul of tax code to 1) simplify it and 2) remove the millions of deductions and special exemptions such that at the very least the tax system is not regressive.
 
Yep saw this in the paper...

"The Internal Revenue Service tracks the tax returns with the 400 highest adjusted gross incomes each year. The average income on those returns in 2007, the latest year for IRS data, was nearly $345 million. Their average federal income tax rate was 17 percent, down from 26 percent in 1992."
 
So let me get this straight. This guy has made his money via investments and now wants to tax new money? Spot these guys from a million miles away.

What is his proposal? How did he arrive at such a low rate? Own a bunch of municipals?
 
Hey Eric, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and pay your share?

Eric: "silly people, when I say we should all pay more, I mean you suckers should pay more while my accountant finds ways for me to pay less".

I'm sure it's just purely coincidental that this "news" comes out right when the president starts his "raise taxes on the rich!*" tour.

* note: "rich" in his context means anyone not on welfare.
 
Genx87 said:
So let me get this straight. This guy has made his money via investments and now wants to tax new money? Spot these guys from a million miles away.

What is his proposal? How did he arrive at such a low rate? Own a bunch of municipals?
Click to expand...

There is this crazy taxcode that full of loop holes and deductions. That mess needs to be cleaned up.

But the really crazy thing is this guy can write a check anytime he wants to fed for as much as he wants to pay. I suspect he will not.
 
If we had a media that had any real value, they'd be asking our pathological liar of a President how much of a dent raising taxes on the rich would make on our deficit. Unfortunately the media is content to just sniff his butt.

I must say though, when Obama says he's going to raise taxes on the rich, it sure fires up the jealous fringe. The underachievers that resent those that achieve. I fully understand his methods, he's going to need all the votes he can get.
 
If someone wishes to pay more taxes, then he / she can make a donation to a private charity. If properly selected, a private charity can go much further to help the needy than handing the cash over to government bureaucracy in the hopes that it will "trickle down" and the majority of it not get diverted to "other" purposes.
 
Double Trouble said:
This kind of whining from liberal groups like "United for a fair economy" always rings very hollow to me. They complain about the tax rate but do everything in their power to reduce their level of taxation. I also can't help but notice how the term "fair" in the context of taxation ALWAYS seems to go along with a desire to force everyone to pay more taxes.
Click to expand...


He's only paying 1% of his income in taxes and is willing to pay more. I suppose if someone offered to give you money you'd call that whining too?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top