SUNK RUSSIAN FLAGSHIP FRONT LINE BATTLESHIP...

[IGBT]

Think of all the layered "missile defense systems" that failed on the "front line ship"...were the missile defense systems on?? Did somebody shut them all off (sabotage)...hell of a lot of unanswered questions...someone has a copy of the "missile telemetry" signals that were emitted while that missile(s) was in route from launch...same thing with the ship...it was also emitting detection signals (radar) or similar to detect incoming threats...lots of unanswered questions...somebody knows the answer of the aforementioned questions..either massive failure or sabotage..

 

[biostud]

Think of all the layered "missile defense systems" that failed on the "front line ship"...were the missile defense systems on?? Did somebody shut them all off (sabotage)...hell of a lot of unanswered questions...someone has a copy of the "missile telemetry" signals that were emitted while that missile(s) was in route from launch...same thing with the ship...it was also emitting detection signals (radar) or similar to detect incoming threats...lots of unanswered questions...somebody knows the answer of the aforementioned questions..either massive failure or sabotage..

Since it's built in Ukraine, they probably had a good idea of what it weak points were. And combine that with a bold and unthinkable move towards an over confident enemy...

 

[Captante]

Don't fail to take Russian incompetence into account!

(apparently the Ukrainians "faked" them out with a distraction)

 

[IGBT]

Don't fail to take Russian incompetence into account!

(apparently the Ukrainians "faked" them out with a distraction)

May explain Russian over reliance on Nuke Weapons and their well publicized declaration of a greatly reduced threshold i.e. the use of Nuke Weapons..their conventional military is seriously deficient and can't even protect a high value front line ship. The world is in a precarious situation...they have only one other similar ship. They need it to conduct conventional war operations in the Ukraine...will they risk bringing it "on station" to conduct operations?? The world is watching....

 

[Captante]

conventional war operations in the Ukraine...will they risk bringing it "on station" to conduct operations?? The world is watching....

Here's hoping!

 

[Torn Mind]

Russians hack much better than they can play war.

 

[ultimatebob]

Russians hack much better than they can play war.

Honestly, they haven't been hacking all that great either. We were expecting cyberattacks from Russia against US businesses because of the aid we've been providing Ukraine, but those seemingly haven't happened yet.

 

[Thump553]

Honestly, they haven't been hacking all that great either. We were expecting cyberattacks from Russia against US businesses because of the aid we've been providing Ukraine, but those seemingly haven't happened yet.

That's one of the main things that surprises me about this war. I did read an article (may have been linked earlier in this thread) that members of the US anti-cyber section spent quite a bit of time in Ukraine before the war strengthening their anti-cyber defenses (I remember they found and cured penetration in Ukraine's railroad system and electric systems) but I fully expected Russian hackers to declare total war on the West and do everything possible. Our defenses at the consumer/low levels are abysmal but maybe Microsoft, the feds etc. have performed spectacularly well? That's probably something we won't find out about for years, if ever.

 

[uclaLabrat]

That's one of the main things that surprises me about this war. I did read an article (may have been linked earlier in this thread) that members of the US anti-cyber section spent quite a bit of time in Ukraine before the war strengthening their anti-cyber defenses (I remember they found and cured penetration in Ukraine's railroad system and electric systems) but I fully expected Russian hackers to declare total war on the West and do everything possible. Our defenses at the consumer/low levels are abysmal but maybe Microsoft, the feds etc. have performed spectacularly well? That's probably something we won't find out about for years, if ever.

Probably more a case of coordination to not reveal capabilities during peacetime and thus lull opponents into a false sense of security and confidence their capabilities outclass their enemies.

Per reports as described above intrusions seemed to be noted and monitored but not actively chased. Intersting possibility from a psyops perspective.

 

[Captante]

That's one of the main things that surprises me about this war. I did read an article (may have been linked earlier in this thread) that members of the US anti-cyber section spent quite a bit of time in Ukraine before the war strengthening their anti-cyber defenses (I remember they found and cured penetration in Ukraine's railroad system and electric systems) but I fully expected Russian hackers to declare total war on the West and do everything possible. Our defenses at the consumer/low levels are abysmal but maybe Microsoft, the feds etc. have performed spectacularly well? That's probably something we won't find out about for years, if ever.

(expect us!)


Russia's vaunted "hackers" are terrific at stealing cc's and email passwords.... apparently not much else though.

 

[biostud]

Maybe the hackers are more involved in the cleptocracy than in business of organized cyber warfare. Or simply left the country when they had the chance.

 

[gorobei]

one account i heard either in the p/n thread or on one of the wartechtubers was that the ukr forces used a bunch of drones to decoy the moskva air defenses initially and that overwhelmed the ciws allowing the neptunes to hit.

i would imagine if the moskva radars were looking for slow moving small rcs drone targets, they might have gone to a different radar band increasing the false positive noise which would have made it harder to spot the neptunes.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Maybe the hackers are more involved in the cleptocracy than in business of organized cyber warfare. Or simply left the country when they had the chance.

That was the sense i got from a few articles discussing russian cyber ops: essentially state-sanctioned corporate black hats where putin gets a cut, far from a strategic asset with military-related objectives.

So basically another mob racket. Business continues as long as the cash flows up the chain, but not terribly coordinated in deployment.

 

[Charmonium]

Don't fail to take Russian incompetence into account!

(apparently the Ukrainians "faked" them out with a distraction)

Yup. They used a drone as the distraction. The Ruskies must be scared shitless of those switchblade drones and they're only getting the "300" models. Model count is currently up to the 600's but don't ask me what the diff is.

It's like shouting "squirrel" and everybody looks and starts shooting. Thankfully US warships are designed to engage multiple hostiles simultaneously. And with their automated high-caliber chain canon, nothing much bigger than a skeeter is getting through.

 

[Captante]

Yup. They used a drone as the distraction. The Ruskies must be scared shitless of those switchblade drones and they're only getting the "300" models. Model count is currently up to the 600's but don't ask me what the diff is.

It's like shouting "squirrel" and everybody looks and starts shooting. Thankfully US warships are designed to engage multiple hostiles simultaneously. And with their automated high-caliber chain canon, nothing much bigger than a skeeter is getting through.

Whoa.

Switchblade® 600 Loitering Missile System - Virtual Press Briefing

 

[Charmonium]

G-damn, you just gotta love the US military. Yeah, they kill people. But as a general rule, they're the same folks that really, really want to kill you. So . . . pick a card.

 

[Captante]

G-damn, you just gotta love the US military. Yeah, they kill people. But as a general rule, they're the same folks that really, really want to kill you. So . . . pick a card.

NOBODY is better at killing then the US Military don't kid yourself.

 

[Captante]

American Military Dominance in One Staggering Chart

Somewhat dated numbers BUT still more or less accurate.

 

[ultimatebob]

Whoa.

Switchblade® 600 Loitering Missile System - Virtual Press Briefing

And to think... these are the toys that we're willing to share with the Ukrainians. Imagine the top-secret stuff they have available now that the US military doesn't want to share with others

 

[bbhaag]

American Military Dominance in One Staggering Chart

Somewhat dated numbers BUT still more or less accurate.

Yeah all that money is well spent for sure. Such stellar projects that include the F-35 Raptor and the Zumwalt-class destroyer just to name a few. Just imagine how many more failures they aren't sharing with us....and how many more Billions of dollars they cost.

 

[Captante]

Yeah all that money is well spent for sure. Such stellar projects that include the F-35 Raptor and the Zumwalt-class destroyer just to name a few. Just imagine how many more failures they aren't sharing with us....and how many more Billions of dollars they cost.

I don't even want to know.

We need a big military in our scary-a$$ world but this is insane.

 

[gorobei]

this is the most in depth analysis i have seen about the capabilities and what would have had to go wrong with the operation of the systems. no speculation as to how the ukr navy managed it, but what the rus should have been doing.

Analysis: Chain of Negligence caused the loss of the Moskva cruiser - Naval News

The shock of the sinking of Moskva continues. In the absence of a satisfactory explanation for the event, there has been much speculation.

www.navalnews.com

it is interesting that part of the doctrine for this class of missile cruiser was to use the 16 cruise missiles in a mass salvo to overwhelm US carrier defenses.

 

[Captante]

it is interesting that part of the doctrine for this class of missile cruiser was to use the 16 cruise missiles in a mass salvo to overwhelm US carrier defenses.

I wonder if they ever tested this strategy.... that POS would probably sink on launch!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I am wondering if we are for the moment at the end of Battle Tanks & large expensive ships.
Seems like Javelin and anti ship missiles are now cheap, easy to produce for nearly anyone and very effective.
Are we back to the days of infantry doing nearly everything?