Suicide; Selfish or Not?

[TheSiege]

I have never had or suffered depression. I have seen, like many other, the effects death and suicide have on other people. So is it selfish?

 

[surfsatwerk]

No, it's the end result of untreated mental illness.

Edit: srsly with the double negatives.

 

[JulesMaximus]

No, it's the end result of untreated mental illness.

Edit: srsly with the double negatives.

:thumbsup: This.

 

[Harabec]

No, it would have ended my pain.

You cannot ask such a question without knowing about a person's condition.
As for me, I did not relate to anyone and felt no empathy towards family due to complex PTSD so "selfish" does not even enter the equation.

 

[TheSiege]

Not all suicides are from mental illness. Some can be to avoid persecution.

 

[mnewsham]

It CAN be selfish, the act in and of itself however is not in my opinion. It would be circumstantial.

 

[Jaskalas]

We've had this topic before... :hmm:

Those who give up are typically in pain. They are unable to reconcile that feeling and it has tragic consequences. Our inability to help them is not selfishness on their part.

It makes sense that you wouldn't understand, unless you try and reach out empathetically to those who are in pain.
Do not judge them from the outside looking in.

 

[TheSiege]

We've had this topic before... :hmm:
Those who give up are typically in pain. They are unable to reconcile that feeling and it has tragic consequences. Our inability to help them is not selfishness on their part.

It makes sense that you wouldn't understand, unless you try and reach out empathetically to those who are in pain.
Do not judge them from the outside looking in.

We've had a lot of topics before, it never hurts to talk about something more often if its helps bring it to the forefront of peoples minds and possibly help someone.
I am not judging anyone, I am simply asking the question that has been floating around. And just to play devils advocate. I present this, Robin Williams is now free from his pain. But now, his wife, kids, and the world are suffering. Is that not selfish?

 

[Exophase]

It can be done without consideration to the pain it will cause in other people (or with consideration but in spite of), but that's not exactly the same as being selfish.

In my opinion, those who lambast suicidal people as being selfish are often the ones being selfish. Imagine if you were miserable at your job and wanted to quit so you could find a better one, then your coworker called you selfish for not considering how that'd make them feel. I'm not trying to say suicide should be the answer (most of the time) but it really feels like people who are offended by it are looking out for their own suffering without considering the other person's much more significant suffering.

 

[vi edit]

There's so many reasons that one would consider doing it, it's impossible to paint with a broad brush.

I personally think that euthanasia for terminally ill is terribly supported by this country. We'll stick grandma or grandpa in an ICU for weeks while they are essentially living off of machines while we stand at the bedside squabbling over what to do. Meanwhile they are there in misery and costing 10's of thousands of dollars a day to support them. Let them end things comfortably on their own terms. It's just one step away from hospice services. Keeping them alive is selfish rather than letting them die in peace and dignity.

If somebody has a chronic addiction that no amount of support or treatment can help, who am I to judge them for permanently solving their problems. In the long term their family is probably safer, more financially secure, and no longer has to worry about the next time they relapse.

And then you get into the whole issue of mental health and the complexities of the mind that you just simply can't comprehend unless your mind has been there.

Mental health help is terribly inaccessible in this country compared to other issues. I have a daughter with fairly significant behavioral issues. She was getting kicked out school for behavior problems and it was escalating out of control. I put in a call for help to my primary care physician in the first week of February. I couldn't even get in for an initial consult with a child psychologist until the middle of May. 3 full months later and basically at the end of the school year. For a kid that was clearly struggling.

Now if I had sore knee I'd be in for an MRI and having an orthopedic guy reviewing it later that day if I wanted. Such a disparity in care.

People that need help are labeled in ways that are not conductive, and access to the care that they may need is very hard to get. We are a society that picks apart everyone and everything. You are constantly under a microscope. It's not an easy life if something in your brain isn't firing exactly right.

 

[Jaepheth]

I've never seen a model of human behavior that didn't assume selfishness.

It's a natural result of only perceiving the world through our own eyes; so ultimately every decision we make is selfish on some level.

My personal view is that most suicides are short sighted; it's a permanent, emotionally motivated solution to what is usually a temporary problem. I have no problem with suicide per se, but I think any legal allowance for suicide should require the approval of an objective third party.

 

[IronWing]

Yes, suicide is a selfish act. However, one of the effects of depression is to turn a person inward, closing out the world around them. Being around suicidal people is to enter bizarro world. The depression becomes so deep they detach from even themselves. We ended up standing suicide watch for an old friend (the person pulled through). The person would matter of factly discuss what went wrong with the first suicide attempt and plan the next suicide attempt out loud, so far gone that the fact that we were there listening to the plan never penetrated into the awareness.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Yes, it's inherently a selfish act. That doesn't necessarily make it right or wrong as it's a very case-by-case kind of thing. It's equally selfish to demand that a person continue suffering through agony (mental or physical) to spare one's own emotional distress.

 

[Platypus]

No, it's the end result of untreated mental illness.

Edit: srsly with the double negatives.

I would amend that to say unsuccessfully treated, not untreated.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

No. Everyone should have have control over their own mortality.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

In my opinion, those who lambast suicidal people as being selfish are often the ones being selfish. Imagine if you were miserable at your job and wanted to quit so you could find a better one, then your coworker called you selfish for not considering how that'd make them feel. I'm not trying to say suicide should be the answer (most of the time) but it really feels like people who are offended by it are looking out for their own suffering without considering the other person's much more significant suffering.

This

 

[darkswordsman17]

It can be selfish but I disagree that its inherently selfish.

Its a lot more complex than that, and people really need to stop considering things like this in such silly binary manners.

There's so many reasons that one would consider doing it, it's impossible to paint with a broad brush.

I personally think that euthanasia for terminally ill is terribly supported by this country. We'll stick grandma or grandpa in an ICU for weeks while they are essentially living off of machines while we stand at the bedside squabbling over what to do. Meanwhile they are there in misery and costing 10's of thousands of dollars a day to support them. Let them end things comfortably on their own terms. It's just one step away from hospice services. Keeping them alive is selfish rather than letting them die in peace and dignity.

If somebody has a chronic addiction that no amount of support or treatment can help, who am I to judge them for permanently solving their problems. In the long term their family is probably safer, more financially secure, and no longer has to worry about the next time they relapse.

And then you get into the whole issue of mental health and the complexities of the mind that you just simply can't comprehend unless your mind has been there.

Mental health help is terribly inaccessible in this country compared to other issues. I have a daughter with fairly significant behavioral issues. She was getting kicked out school for behavior problems and it was escalating out of control. I put in a call for help to my primary care physician in the first week of February. I couldn't even get in for an initial consult with a child psychologist until the middle of May. 3 full months later and basically at the end of the school year. For a kid that was clearly struggling.

Now if I had sore knee I'd be in for an MRI and having an orthopedic guy reviewing it later that day if I wanted. Such a disparity in care.

People that need help are labeled in ways that are not conductive, and access to the care that they may need is very hard to get. We are a society that picks apart everyone and everything. You are constantly under a microscope. It's not an easy life if something in your brain isn't firing exactly right.

Yeah. The state of psychology is really f'ed up here. Most people only know of "pop" pyschology stuff like the stages of grief and similar (most of which are pretty much BS and are not in any way established peer reviewed fact, a lot of it is just some person from 50+ years ago said something and people take it as though its a basic cornerstone of psychology when many times that's just a person that had their own mental issues spouting off their own thoughts but people misconstrue that as deep self reflection or consideration when its no better than your crazy uncle's random beliefs about various things).

I don't know how we as people can right the mass of ignorance, misinformation, and other aspects that have made psychology what it is (that is to say, carry a stigma and be considered abnormal and defective).

 

[Rakehellion]

What someone does with their life is their choice. It's selfish to say someone owes you their right to die.

 

[Ruptga]

There's so many reasons that one would consider doing it, it's impossible to paint with a broad brush.

I personally think that euthanasia for terminally ill is terribly supported by this country. We'll stick grandma or grandpa in an ICU for weeks while they are essentially living off of machines while we stand at the bedside squabbling over what to do. Meanwhile they are there in misery and costing 10's of thousands of dollars a day to support them. Let them end things comfortably on their own terms. It's just one step away from hospice services. Keeping them alive is selfish rather than letting them die in peace and dignity.

If somebody has a chronic addiction that no amount of support or treatment can help, who am I to judge them for permanently solving their problems. In the long term their family is probably safer, more financially secure, and no longer has to worry about the next time they relapse.

And then you get into the whole issue of mental health and the complexities of the mind that you just simply can't comprehend unless your mind has been there.

Mental health help is terribly inaccessible in this country compared to other issues. I have a daughter with fairly significant behavioral issues. She was getting kicked out school for behavior problems and it was escalating out of control. I put in a call for help to my primary care physician in the first week of February. I couldn't even get in for an initial consult with a child psychologist until the middle of May. 3 full months later and basically at the end of the school year. For a kid that was clearly struggling.

Now if I had sore knee I'd be in for an MRI and having an orthopedic guy reviewing it later that day if I wanted. Such a disparity in care.

People that need help are labeled in ways that are not conductive, and access to the care that they may need is very hard to get. We are a society that picks apart everyone and everything. You are constantly under a microscope. It's not an easy life if something in your brain isn't firing exactly right.

I was going to say something, but you already covered it all.

It's a complex problem and any answer to any question about it will be complex. You can be sure that, for the most part, anyone that answers with a flat "yes" has no real insight into the matter.

 

[tmc]

at least donate/write ALL your body parts in advance and then kill yourself in a way that doesn't affect their usefulness. then i would say you were not selfish .

 

[Kadarin]

Yeah, it really depends. If you're leaving someone behind who's deeply hurt and betrayed by your action, then yes. If you do it in a manner that inconveniences a lot of people (jump off a freeway bridge), yes. If you do it in such a way that you leave someone to clean up a disgusting mess, then yes.

But... Sometimes it's the right decision. I'd rather go out with a bang then slide into ALS or Alzheimer's hell, for one.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

at least donate/write ALL your body parts in advance and then kill yourself in a way that doesn't affect their usefulness. then i would say you were not selfish .

Well considering you have to effectively be connected to life support at the moment of death in order for your organs to be even considered viable, that's going to be difficult

 

[purbeast0]

yes, i believe it is selfish, because it will have tremendous affects on the family and friends of that person.

but i also believe it is selfish for one to tell another person what they can and can't do with their own life.

 

[z1ggy]

I don't think it's selfish. Why should one be forced to live a life full of suffering and mental despair just so their loved ones can remain happy over their existence? A few months/years of anguish is much more bearable to a mentally sound person than a lifetime of pain for somebody who can't handle their emotions.

 

[BurnItDwn]

CONTEXT, where is it?