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Suicide Attempts in One California County CLAIMED w/o Evidence to be Rampant

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
103,531
18,091
136
Sure bud.

But yeah, fuck all them brown and black folks that work in retail. When is your next klan meeting?
truly amazing how in one simple statement that blatantly sails over your head:

--you miss the point
--turn around to "you are racist for saying a thing" that is in no way related to any sort of racism
--broad brush a whole lot of people into specific demographics
--reveal your racism because of this failure
--don't even give a fuck

:beermug:
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
103,531
18,091
136
In Pa, in a county (Bucks) that is still red (red, yellow,yeeha) my beer distributor has been deemed an essential business from the get-go. :rolleyes:
booze sales = state $$$$$$$$. gotta keep that chedda flowing. I mean, it does make a bit of sense, because we do need some sort of revenue stream to pay for various essential services.

That, and addicts would just flat out die, or go into the DT's, clogging up hospital resources needed for Covid patients (one of those...yes it's a logical argument, but a bit of a stretch because you can draw this one out for basically every possible reason. ...see, at least I can make a logical, valid argument; and then explain directly why it is pretty dumb ;)).
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
5,385
471
126
They said crime was generally down everywhere during these past 2 months. Wonder about drunk driving charges and accidents?
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,656
3,414
126
booze sales = state $$$$$$$$. gotta keep that chedda flowing. I mean, it does make a bit of sense, because we do need some sort of revenue stream to pay for various essential services.

That, and addicts would just flat out die, or go into the DT's, clogging up hospital resources needed for Covid patients (one of those...yes it's a logical argument, but a bit of a stretch because you can draw this one out for basically every possible reason. ...see, at least I can make a logical, valid argument; and then explain directly why it is pretty dumb ;)).
The problem is in places like CA - they basically made it illegal to have alcoholics anonymous gatherings, but made it essential that the alcohol itself is available.

That's a GREAT combination there - close the one thing that deters you from drinking, but make sure the booze is available lol.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,655
2,168
126
Were you planning on taking them with you?

Do you know the story of stone soup?
I don't know anyone who plans on keeping their earthly possessions for eternity. And yes, I'm familiar with the stone soup fable. The issue is that we're not talking about a Utopian future, we're talking about a lot of people being ruined today. We're talking about halting commerce in a society that's built entirely on commerce.
It's easy to be philosophical when you have an uninterrupted income stream, when your own comfort is a certainty. For those that don't have that, the world is a very different place. A pat on the head and a few platitudes won't change the meat hook reality of what they're facing. I've been there before, I know what it's like. It's the moment you realize that the rest of the world doesn't give a shit about your personal misery, the moment when you finally grasp that the "greater good" doesn't include you. Some people can't face that, so they take their own lives.
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,090
469
126
Maybe we should rethink the economic order a bit if a couple of months is leading to mass suicides because people see no way to continue. If that is truly the case the pandemic and efforts to contain it are not the real problem just a catalyst for exposing a much larger issue.
The "economic order" is working exactly as intended. FYGM isn't a consequence of our laws - it's the intended outcome.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,136
18,910
136
I don't know anyone who plans on keeping their earthly possessions for eternity. And yes, I'm familiar with the stone soup fable. The issue is that we're not talking about a Utopian future, we're talking about a lot of people being ruined today. We're talking about halting commerce in a society that's built entirely on commerce.
It's easy to be philosophical when you have an uninterrupted income stream, when your own comfort is a certainty. For those that don't have that, the world is a very different place. A pat on the head and a few platitudes won't change the meat hook reality of what they're facing. I've been there before, I know what it's like. It's the moment you realize that the rest of the world doesn't give a shit about your personal misery, the moment when you finally grasp that the "greater good" doesn't include you. Some people can't face that, so they take their own lives.
It is very unfortunate that the federal government has failed so completely at combating this virus. First, they failed to contain it, then second they failed to develop an effective plan to get it back under control. They should have had a real lockdown instead of the fake one we had to curb stomp the virus while giving massive income support to people staying at home. Instead, we got an entirely insufficient stimulus package that has no oversight (so you know corruption will be rampant) and is apparently barely even being employed at the moment.

I genuinely cannot think of a time when the federal government has failed as utterly as it has in this case. It seems to know it too, which is why their goal is no longer to fight the virus but to avoid blame for it. Deaths by suicide are partially their fault too.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
11,835
6,294
136
There is no data whatsoever regarding the suicide rate so far since the pandemic started.


But it will be a while before COVID-19’s actual impact on the nation’s suicide rate is known, says psychologist Jill Harkavy-Friedman, PhD, vice president of research at the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. “We’re two years away from having data,” she says. And it’s not a given that the pandemic will cause suicide rates to increase, emphasizes Harkavy-Friedman, who is also an associate professor of clinical psychology, in psychiatry, at Columbia University.

“One event can bring stress, but it’s not going to make someone suicidal out of the blue,” she says, explaining that it is typically a combination of biological, psychological, environmental and other factors that renders people vulnerable to suicide. Take the Great Recession of 2008, she points out. “About 4.8 million people lost their jobs, and the suicide rate didn’t skyrocket,” she says. “We’re much more resilient than we give people credit for.
She's right. There's a general increase in the US suicide rate starting about 2006 and continuing all the way to 2018, but no sudden spike in 2008-2009.


Why should this situation increase suicides if the 2008 financial collapse did not?
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
Right. And again, it’s not really a lockdown. It’s basically the closure of restaurants and hair salons - incredibly mild. Look to other countries to see what a lockdown is.

I mean Tesla was determined to be an essential business. That’s just how easy it is to be essential.
So how do we quantify how much can be ascribed to the lockdown versus voluntary closures?
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
Why should this situation increase suicides if the 2008 financial collapse did not?
I don't think unemployment was anywhere near where it is now during the 2008 crisis.

And I'm pretty sure the correlation between unemployment and suicide is reasonably supported.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,136
18,910
136
So how do we quantify how much can be ascribed to the lockdown versus voluntary closures?
You can look at areas that have reopened, restaurant reservations look to be down somewhere like 80%. You can look at other sectors that were never closed. They are also down like 90%.

Generally speaking there’s going to be a big impact in areas where lots of people need to be packed close together.

Again though, calling it a lockdown is pretty wrong. Was there ever a point where you couldn’t leave your house and travel wherever you wanted?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
11,835
6,294
136
I don't think unemployment was anywhere near where it is now during the 2008 crisis.

And I'm pretty sure the correlation between unemployment and suicide is reasonably supported.
So you're saying that 11% unemployment shows no spike at all in suicides, but if it's 15%, then the suicide rate should skyrocket? That makes no sense. If suicides are caused by unemployment, then they should increase in proportion to the increase in unemployment. The theory is not that people commit suicide because of a national statistic. It's that they commit suicide because they themselves have lost their job.

And no, the correlation doesn't seem to be supported. Look at the CDC data link. It's been generally increasing since 2006, and has continued to increase through the latter Obama years and the earlier Trump years where unemployment was low. No correlation seen at all.

There are of course various reasons people might commit suicide so there could be other factors increasing suicides even when unemployment is low, but there is no way to verify the alleged correlation from the data we have.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,503
3,260
126
I don't know anyone who plans on keeping their earthly possessions for eternity. And yes, I'm familiar with the stone soup fable. The issue is that we're not talking about a Utopian future, we're talking about a lot of people being ruined today. We're talking about halting commerce in a society that's built entirely on commerce.
It's easy to be philosophical when you have an uninterrupted income stream, when your own comfort is a certainty. For those that don't have that, the world is a very different place. A pat on the head and a few platitudes won't change the meat hook reality of what they're facing. I've been there before, I know what it's like. It's the moment you realize that the rest of the world doesn't give a shit about your personal misery, the moment when you finally grasp that the "greater good" doesn't include you. Some people can't face that, so they take their own lives.
My Dear Beautiful Mr. Greenman,

Do you not see that it is the pain of your realization that the world doesn't give a shit about you that is the root of your concern as to what that realization will do to others. Do you not see that you are wrong. YOU give a shit and so do I. I told you a long time ago that you are a person I would trust you with my life. This is why. We are not alone.
 

ondma

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2018
1,731
546
106
We'd need more data to make a reasonable determination on that. It's easy to shout "the lockdowns are costing us more lives than the virus!" when you don't have to quantify it like, say, the CDC does.
Exactly. I would like to hear the actual number of increased deaths from suicide, compared to the number of deaths from the corona virus and the projected deaths from opening up too soon. I hear this argument over and over again from the "open up at all costs" crowd, but I have never seen actual numbers posted.

Edit: I just looked up the numbers. The total estimated suicide deaths in the US last year was less that 50,000. We have already lost 2x that to Corona virus in slightly over 2 months.
 
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