Suggestions for complete systems - Low - Medium - High

jehh

Banned
Jan 16, 2001
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Ok, I do not know if this is the right forum to put this under, but here goes...

I've just put together what I consider three reasonable systems made out of good quality parts.

A cheap system for a second machine, giving to Mom, etc. A mid level system, for the kids, as an upgrade to that aging P2 300, or just as a cost effective game box. A high end system, something that still costs less than $1,000, but has the power to play all games and run most any software you would want.

myurl

There are prices, the best currently posted on PriceWatch, but you may end up saving more on shipping paying slightly more. I did this for fun, not for money, so you'll have to do that research. :)

Please let me know what you think. If I get lots of feedback to change something, I'll be happy to do so. Please post replies here for everyone to see, PM or e-mailing me doesn't help since I don't sell any of this stuff and you can't have mine! ;)

Jason
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
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Ok, I do not know if this is the right forum to put this under, but here goes...

You're right. If you're trying to SELL systems then I would suggest the For Sale/Trade forum or if this is a computer related post then try the General Hardware forum.

Clean up on aisle 4!
 

jehh

Banned
Jan 16, 2001
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I'm not trying to sell anything. :) I wouldn't want to, there isn't much money in this stuff.

I was just trying to provide a list of parts that would make good systems and recomending that people take a look at www.PriceWatch.com. Nothing more...

I just thought this info might be helpful to people...

Jason
 

Dantzig

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
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I don't really know if these threads should be in the Hot Deals forum, but here are my comments.

Basic system:
Fan will cost more than $3. Probably more like $10.
Add more RAM. 128MB is super cheap right now and Windows will use it.
This system could probably stand a smaller hard drive. 40GB is a little large for the user of this system.
External USB modem?!?!? Ick.

Mid-level system:
Why not go for a MSI K7T Pro2-A for the same price as the Epox mobo?
Fan will again cost more than $5.
A GeForce2 GTS is only a few dollars more than an MX right now. It's worth it!
Go for more RAM? 192-256MB since it's so cheap.
External USB modem?!?!? Ick.

High-end system:
Again, go for the MSI K7T Pro2-A instead of the Epox.
Why the Asus V7700? You can get a basic GeForce2 GTS for $120!
More RAM!!! Yes, it does make a difference.
Go for separate DVD and CD-RW drives so you can copy CDs and/or use both drives at the same time.

BTW, the GeForce2 GTS is not the "king of the hill" of video cards. That title goes to the GeForce2 Ultra 64MB DDR :)

Also, none of these are "complete systems." They all lack speakers, keyboard, mouse, operating system, and monitor. These componets alone can run up to $1000 depending on your tastes ;)
 

jehh

Banned
Jan 16, 2001
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Dantzig, any idea where I should post this?

Reply to your comments:

Basic system:
"Fan will cost more than $3. Probably more like $10."
They are $3 at dealer cost or swap meets, I would think if you ask nicely most vendors would toss one in for this price. Remember this is the cheap version, few people need a Golden Orb

"Add more RAM. 128MB is super cheap right now"
128MB doubles the cost to $63, I was trying to make this system as cheap as possible. Sure, you can get that for less on PriceWatch, but I'm looking for the best RAM at a cheap price, not the cheapest RAM period. The idea is to get a system that doesn't crash" :)

"This system could probably stand a smaller hard drive. 40GB is a little large for the user of this system."
I'm open to suggestions on this one, going to a 10GB drive for $30 less seems silly to me. They can always take the drive with them when they toss the system later.

"External USB modem?!?!? Ick."
Better than an internal WinModem, and I don't know that internal DSP modems are that easy to find. Broadband is better, but few people have it. This modem works really well, low lag (for a modem), and always works.

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Mid-level system:
"Why not go for a MSI K7T Pro2-A for the same price as the Epox mobo?"
That sounds fine too, I'm sure it is just as good. Anyone else think this is a good idea?

"Fan will again cost more than $5"
These are $3 dealer cost, shouldn't be more than $5 from an honust dealer

"A GeForce2 GTS is only a few dollars more than an MX right now. It's worth it"
I priced it at $84 more (almost twice the cost) for a brand I trust. What did I miss?

"Go for more RAM? 192-256MB since it's so cheap."
Sure, in this system that works, but then you run the risk of making the mid & high systems the same. :)

------------------

High-end system:
"Again, go for the MSI K7T Pro2-A instead of the Epox."
May I ask why? I'm not aware of a diffrence, but if it is really better, I'll switch them.

"Why the Asus V7700? You can get a basic GeForce2 GTS for $120!"
Brand name, I trust the ASUS brand, their cards are very good for stability. The lowest price on PriceWatch is $161. Where can you get this card for $120?

"More RAM!!! Yes, it does make a difference"
Sure, but to you and me, not to the target of this system. You wouldn't own this system and neither would I, it is meant for those non-techie friends of ours who want a system they will keep for at least a year and not upgrade every three months. :) They don't need more RAM, no game needs more than 192MB that I know of (if I'm wrong, please enlighten me)

"Go for separate DVD and CD-RW drives so you can copy CDs and/or use both drives at the same time."
This was one item I wasn't sure about. It seems like a good deal as it won't confuse people with two CD drive units and such. Nothing wrong with two drives either. Personal choice. :)

"BTW, the GeForce2 GTS is not the "king of the hill" of video cards. That title goes to the GeForce2 Ultra 64MB DDR"
True, but no one building this system would put that card in it. That card also costs almost as much as the mid level system. :) It is WAY too expensive, nice, but pointless until games need it... :) It is kind of like owning a Mustang Cobra, yes it will do 150 MPH, yes it is really fast from 0-60, but it is still a toy and you only buy it if that performance is really important to you and you have extra cash. No one needs it and it doesn't help you getting the task done (getting from point A to point B) any better than a Mustang GT does for $10,000 less (or whatever the diffrence is).

Jason :)
 

Dantzig

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Differences between Epox and MSI mobos:
MSI is a little more stable (Anandtech uses them for servers!), although they are both good boards.
MSI can change CPU multiplier and voltage in BIOS. On the Epox, you must use dip switches and jumpers.
MSI supports changing the CPU bus speed in 1MHz increaments.
Epox has 6 PCI / 1 ISA / 1 AGP slot configuration. MSI has 6 PCI / 1 CNR / 1 APG slot configuration.

Anandtech reviews:
EPoX EP-8KTA2 Socket-A KT133 (686B) ATX 7/10
Microstar K7T Pro2 KT133 Socket-A ATX 8/10


According to Anandtech's Weekly CPU & Video Card Price Guide: January 2001 1st Edition Access Micro sells GeForce2 GTS cards for $111 + shipping! However, I couldn't find this price on their site. The ATI RADEON 32MB DDR for $118 with free shipping from Z-Buy would also be a good choice for the mid-level and maybe even the high-end system. It's certainly faster than the GeForce2 MX :)

Depending on what kinds of software the user is planning on running, more than 192MB of memory may be very useful. I believe 192MB is the "sweet spot" for Windows 98SE. RAM is so cheap that there's not any real reason not to put 192MB in the mid-level system. And even for a system used only for web browsing and word processing, there's huge performance increase when going from 64MB to 128MB if running Windows 98(SE). If the user wants Windows 2000, I would strongly recommend 256+MB for any system.

I fully agree with you that the GeForce2 Ultra 64MB DDR is a waste of money, but it's still the fastest video card out there :)
 

jehh

Banned
Jan 16, 2001
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Perhaps that Access Micro price was just a typo?

Didn't know the ATI Radeon was so cheap with 32MB of DDR RAM. That would be a good choice as well, but the biggest thing about the Geforce2 is that I figure most games are writen for it these days. Perhaps not... :)

You're most correct, there are uses for more RAM. The problem is anyone who needs more than 192MB would NEVER use one of these systems. :) I've got 256MB, I do video editing and MPEG-2 encoding and find I have no need for more RAM or CPU speed. (ok, more CPU speed would encode faster, but I'd need a 3 or 4GHz CPU to make any diffrence worth bothering with)

64MB of RAM is just fine for Windows 98 for many users. We here are all spoiled, and we use our systems hard, our mothers do not. My Mom runs a number of programs, but 64MB is fine for her, she doesn't use the swap file much, and her system runs faster than she does. :) We're in the top 10%, perhaps 1% of power users. Also, that $33 that another 64MB of RAM costs to go to 256MB is a pair of DVDs, or a nice meal out for the family, or a trip to a baseball game... If you don't need it, why buy it? We do it since this is our hobby, most people just don't need it. :) My brother runs an AMD K6 266 with 64MB of EDO RAM on Windows 98 and he doesn't complain. He has used my Mom's Celeron 500 and my PIII750 and doesn't see much diffrence other than application load time and slightly faster video speed. He also just uses e-mail and web browsers. :) Nothing wrong with that, just that not everyone needs 128MB of RAM.

As for video cards, it is the fastest consumer level card, but professional cards costing thousands of dollars run rings around it in both speed and accuracy of rendering (the cards that encoded Toy Story 2 for example). They don't play games however. :)

Jason
 

jehh

Banned
Jan 16, 2001
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To reply to your other point (which I missed the first time):

Differences between Epox and MSI mobos:
"MSI is a little more stable (Anandtech uses them for servers!), although they are both good boards."
Ok, this is important. I thought the Epox was a good board, I'm sure they are both fine, but I'll change if it a few more people suggest it.

"MSI can change CPU multiplier and voltage in BIOS. On the Epox, you must use dip switches and jumpers."
Ok, true, but no one buying these systems cares. Once built, they will stay that way probably for all their lives. :) You don't overclock a system building one of these, remember that stability is the number one thing here... :)

"MSI supports changing the CPU bus speed in 1MHz increaments."
Again, doesn't matter for this application, but a good point from our point of view. I'll have to consider the MSI board if I ever upgrade to a KT133 board. :)

"Epox has 6 PCI / 1 ISA / 1 AGP slot configuration. MSI has 6 PCI / 1 CNR / 1 APG slot configuration."
Whee!!! I SO don't give a rats ass here (personaly, I don't care about ISA or CNR slots)... :) But thanks for the info on the slots (always good to have)... :)

Jason
 

Dantzig

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Heheh...I just listed all of the differences between the two boards, I didn't claim that all of them were important ;)

Who is to say that the individuals for whom these systems are built will not someday because technology enthusiasts and decide that they want to tweak and OC their system? I've built and sold about five systems now. Three of the people ended up coming back to me within a couple months asking for tweaking and overclocking information.

I may make one of these "guides" myself just for fun ;)
 

jehh

Banned
Jan 16, 2001
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Fair enough... :)

You're right that a number of people who currently don't tweak their systems may want to do so in the future. If the price is the same, that is a good reason to pick the MSI board. :)

Making the guide is fun, keeping it up to date would suck. :) (unless it paid the bills)

That is the biggest problem with some of these "no-name" tech info sites. They are put up hoping to make big bucks from traffic and ads, then they don't post any original info to attract the traffic. :) I have no doubt it takes TONs of work to keep a first class tech info site running. :)

Jason
 

Dantzig

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Yeah, it takes a hell of a lot of work to keep a tech site up. I was going to start one back when Anandtech was still relatively unknown...I guess that was in what, 1996 or 1997? I designed a layout and wrote up a couple reviews. Then I didn't promote it or update it or anything. Now I wish that I had ;)
 

javeed

Member
Oct 30, 2000
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Hmmm... methinx this is beginning to sound more and more like a general hardware forum thread... why arent the mods awake at 5am?? *yawn* might as well go to sleep now. got work tomorrow and i'm already not thinking with half of my...zzZZzZzZzZ