Suggestions for budget MB that supports both DDR & 133SDRAM.w/ onboard sound

[dxpaap]

Looking to upgrade my kids "homework" / game systems (currently old P200) to something better for mininum of investment.

Would gut old system to use everything including SDRAM - so only need MotherBoard and cpu (decided on AMD atholon)

Would like to keep MB below $75 - System Stability is 1st priorty, 2nd is upgradabilty (cpu & memory upgrade path) and Over clocking is nice to have but not required.

any suggestiions weclomed

thanks

 

[dpm]

When i was looking to upgrade but keep my old SDRAM about 6 months ago, the choice was between the ECS K7S5A and the shuttle AK32 series. I got the K7S5A cos it was cheaper (although they are both around $55 now)

I read all the advice on the K7S5a being picky, and tricky to work with, and... they were right. I've had a short series of little problems, culminating in a complete inability to find an internal modem that won't stop my pc POSTing. (but i'm using a serial one now, and appreciating the difference). Nothing I couldn't work my way around, but its been a bit of a pain, and now i'm wondering if i should have just spent the extra money. Plus you'll need a good Power supply with this motherboard. It is *very* fussy in this respecy. decent 300W minimum for an athlon or XP. 350 or 400 pref.

I havent used the shuttle myself. but i have heard its more reliable, and a bit more user friendly. Both accept SDRAM or DDR, both'll take up to XP CPUs, both have onboard sound.

I don't know about the shuttle, but the K7S5A is definately not an overclockers board. Its possible, with special oc bioses, but lets just say its not the overclockers ideal.

I think the reason i didnt choose the shuttle was because its only a KT266 chipset and the K7S5A's SIS 735 is supposed to be faster. But looking back, maybe i should have made the other choice.
Actually, if i did it again, i'd just sod it and buy a more expensive MB, since i ended up getting the DDR anyway!

sorry about the rambling, and hope this helps some - check out Newegg for more details.

good luck!

 

[dxpaap]

dmp,

thanks for the helpful response. In fact, I have a friend who upgraded 3 of his systems with the ECS. Although, he thought for the price they were ok - ran into a varity of small system issues. I'll look into the shuttle AK32 !

By the way, my systems are at the end of their practical life. I figure, one last MB and CPU upgrade - once they hit the wall again every component will be desitine for "Good Will". Since my kids are currently running no name MB and P200 - this will be a BIG improvement.

Besides, the more I save on these system - the more I have to build my system

 

[lsman]

if i am not mistaken, shuffle and some low end abit as well as some other are outsource and "build by ECS", conside that i use some PCchips and ECS to build some computer, i think they are not that bad.
For $55 or so the K7S5A (newegg sometime has refurb for $35 or less) is a solid board for the money, if you need info, check out the FAQ at ocworkbench.com/ecs
If you are into cheap mb with video display on board, some suggest Biostar M7VIG $64 (support ATA133) at newegg, or M841 from pcchips (on board everthing, video/LAN, sound + AMR modem) or M825

 

[Buz2b]

No question that the ECS board has it's "history" of problems. However, if you "cover your bases" and use a decent (DOES NOT have to be top of the line) Power Supply and something like Crucial or Kingston Ram, you should have no trouble at all. I have built several of these systems (including one recently) and the only real "problems" I have had have been of my own doing. Keep in mind that many people have used various forms of "generic" RAM or Power supplies with good success. You could very easily do the same. However, I am just talking about a "no-brainer", no trouble type of upgrade. The K7S5A is a damned good bargin for that.
The AK32 has had it's share of troubles; some consistant, others random. Good idea to investigate further. I have no "user based" knowledge to share on that MB.

 

[Davidelmo]

yup, K7S5A is a good board! My friend has it and even though overclocking isn't present it runs stable with all the strange concoctions of generic/brand, DDR, SDRAM etc - compatibility doesn't seem to be an issue.
Personally I would stay clear of pc-chips (mentioned by Isman) - i have had nothing but bad luck, instability and problems from pc-chips boards!

hope that helped!

 

[dxpaap]

thanks everyone for the good advice - looks like ECS is the favorite of this group. I'll bounce on over to the "hot deals" group and see if any of these boards are on sale

anandTech rules !

 

[Mattster]

Newegg has them for $53.99 and free shipping. Good board for the money. Just be sure to dig around on the forums over at OCWorkbench and AMDMB.com to see what ppl are using for power supplies. I have a 300watt Antec in mine, which runs my Duron 1.2Ghz just fine, but my Athlon 1.2Ghz Tbird will only run at 900Mhz. Therein lies the pickiness of this motherboard when it comes to power supplies I think (Or it could just be the board. They don't seem to agree well with some of the Thunderbird Athlons).

My .02
Matt

 

[kmmatney]

I've built four systems (including my own) around the ECS K7S5A and haven't had any "major" issues. I used on-board sound and LAN to minimize the number of peripherals, so maybe that helped. Never had any issues with power supplies - even cheapo ones.

One of my boards was not stable with a particular memory stick, but I was able to swap it with the stick from another machine, and they both worked fine in the end. It did take me a while to find the root of the problem, though...

 

[o1die]

I would spend a few dollars more and get the asus nforce board (around $80 at newegg with free shipping). The built in video quality is good enough for him to use it for games later on.

 

[dxpaap]

o1die,

I've been "pondering" onboard video, certainly onboard audio and even NIC seem to be a good idea - but many comments in threads seem to shy away from the onboard video.

I think its based on the perception of poor performance / very low end video component integrated into the multi-function MBs (which is probably true - considering that these boards tend to be used in budget system). But on the other hand, this bias could be due to the "high end / purest" nature of the people that participate in these types of technical forums (sorry this comment not intended to bate an off topic stream .

I'm wondering if the newer multi-function MB are using higher end video components now ? As you said "built in video quality is good enough " - the question is: what is good enough for a "kid system" to be used for homework and game playing (strategy games i.e. red alert III, Riven - Nintendo still favored system for action type games i.e. car racing & fighting) ?


o1die, does the asus nforce board provide dedicated video memory with ability to flash video firmware upgrades ?

Better end this post before I start rambling (ooops to late)

 

[Buz2b]

The nForce onboard video is comparable to a Geforce 2 Mx200 (if I remember correctly). If you weren't going to get a video card any better than that, then you could go that route; no big deal. No, the video is not "flash" upgradeable. However, you do have an AGP slot so that you could add a better video card later.
However, there are differences in nforce boards to be aware of. I am far from an expert on these but the "220" model does not perform as well as the "420" series. I believe it has something to do with the memory banks. Someone can correct me on that, I'm sure. But, I'm fairly confident of it. Anyway, the 420 series is also more expensive than the other.
So, you have a trade off there. Also, you might want to see if someone can point you to a board comparison of these MB's vs other "regular" current boards. I just don't remember much about any "stellar" performance from them. Something to research again.
As for being a "high end" or purest, (at least in my case); hardly. I have a 32 MB Geforce 2 MX 400; not exactly something to brag about. But, works fine for me right now. Just provided that info so that you would be more informed as to my "take" on this. No offense taken at all. Good luck.

 

[gaidin123]

In general the onboard video of most mainboards has very low 3d performance. This is due mainly to 2 things: Video memory/bandwidth is shared with the main system memory and basically every other device in your system, and low performing 3d cores.

The nForce is pretty much the exception to the rule (though ATI does have their own motherboards out there now though not sure if they have onboard video). The nForce1 has the 220 and 420 versions. The 420 has a dual channel DDR memory system that effectively doubles the memory bandwidth for your system if you pair up your DIMMs. This is only useful if you use the onboard graphics core which, as Buz2b said, is about equivalent to a GeForce2MX 200. That card is basically not very good anymore however it still kills almost all other mainboards that use integrated graphics. That card can probably play games of the UT and Quake3 era smoothly but it will be choppy in games like Giants, UT2k3, Medal of Honor, and most any graphically intense newer game. It will play them, just not nearly as well as ~$70 GeForce3 card of some kind.

Hopefully that clears up some of your questions. In my opinion, I wouldn't be happy with the onboard video if it was my main system cause I guess I am one of the purists around here, but I think if you're upgrading from a P200 right now, the video and nForce motherboard will be a great and cheap upgrade. As far as upgradeability goes, you can upgrade to the fastest 133Mhz bus Athlon XP which is what, the 24/2600s? The AGP slot can handle the newest cards out there now even though it's not AGP8x capable. That probably own't matter for another year or two in any major way. The nForce 420 boards should have 3 DIMM slots, 2 of which must be populated, preferrably with same sized sticks to take advantage of the dual channel controller. And you have a few PCI slots for whatever else you want to add in...

Let us know what you decide!

Gaidin

 

[Buz2b]

Thanks for filling in my "gaps" gaidin123. I hope it helps him.

 

[dxpaap]

gaidin123, thks for the very helpful post.

Although I haven't decided on exact MB yet, I've greatly narrowed the range by dropping the onboard video. I figure my current video controllers are comparable to the GeForce2MX 200 (or a little less) - so wouldn't really be gaining much in performance even though its only a few more $$.

They'll be happy with the improved system performance and in 6 or 9 months upgrade the video to a GeForce3 comparable for under $50.


It's taking a lot more effort to build a budget system, tailoring each component to a individual specific need, (trying to select the "sweet spot" - best performance for the price), then just putting together a top of like system with all the latest components.

Guess that's what makes it a fun hobby

thanks again

 

[dxpaap]

FYI - I was just about to order the ECS K7S5A day - but stopped in to a local pc system store. In talking to the head engineer, responsable for selecting the componets (including MB) -he said they stopped carrying ECS because of the huge failure rate. He said, out of every batch of a thousand board, they'd have to return 100 to 200 boards !!! He said the cost to rework & return 10 to 20% of their system was killing them. He said most were good on arrival but died with in 2 to 4 weeks of operation.

also he said they do a lot of Fed Gov't work, and ECS was on the official "do not provide" list. I asked if it was the K7S5a board or other ones. He said all of ECS products - quality control issue.


Well, thats it, for what ever it's worth. Dam, now I'm on the fence about the K7S5A again !

 

[Cerb]

The worst trouble with any K7S5A I've seen has been a dead CMOS battery. An extra $5 (assuming you go to Radio Shack and get ripped)...not bad. With good PSUs (My dad and myself either use Enermax or Enlight PSUs exclusively...never had a bad one yet), they run just fine. Not sure about other ECS products , but the K7S5A has been a great mobo...in fact, the only downsides to it are the batteries and that the onboard sound isn't too clean (for $55 shipped, you can't complain much, though). As far as compatibility go, it may have some issues, but my dad's own machine ran it with...
TV tuner card (hauppage)
TNT2
SCSI RAID controller (used, of course)...not sure the make of it, aside from the intel chipset.
Promise FastTrak 66
Hercules Game Theater XP (If only I had $90 to spend on this thing for my own comp)
CNR modem (hey, sometimes you need a modem)

Not sure its current config, as I haven't needed to rob it of hardware recently

Just order the K7S5A from NewEgg and go to your local grocery store, get a 2032 battery and you're set.

 

[ScrapSilicon]

dxpaap what is your current rig..?

 

[MithShrike]

If it's limited expansion and onboard sound, and perhaps LAN I'd go with the KM266 chipset. The ECS K7VMM has PC133, PC1600, and PC2100 support. It also has and external AGP slot so you can use a better video card than the onboard. Gigabyte also makes a KM266 board and that is what I'd suggest you get if you are disenfranchised with ECS.

 

[dxpaap]

Mith, thks - I'll look into the Gigabyte KM266 - then make my decision - time to get off the fence and just do it.


Cerb, guess I'm still leaning towards the ECS K7S5A w/ an Athelon 1600+ Y series (give me some OC options). But because of free time constraints - I'll time the buy from New Egg so that I can dedicate a weekend to fully build, test and BURN IN the ECS MB - so that if it craps out, I'll still be able to exchange for replacement within its warrenty window (I always seem to runout of time before I get a chance to fully test).

ScrapSilicon, I've got a mix / match of systems - right now three of them are networked. I wouldn't classify them as "rigs" although I've build them from scratch. But the two I'm upgrading now are older "kid" system at the end of their life - the storage (hard drives & CDRW), case, monitors, video and memory can all be used (the P200 cpu and MB's have to go).

I figure with the ECS and Athelon 1600, it will stop the kids from complaining about their "crappy" systems that can't play their games - although certinly good enought to do homework

Then in a year, when they start to complain again, I'll throw in 512 of DDR memory, an upgraded video card and OC the AMD 1600 to 2100. That may buy me another year before I have to start from scratch again!

After this ecs / AMD upgrated - I will use the $$ I have left to build "MY RIG" - It certinly will be a higher performance board then the ECS K7S5A.

All hardware has it's place depending on its use, performance expectations and available funds


thanks for everyones advise - very helpfull

 

[ScrapSilicon]

Originally posted by: dxpaap

ScrapSilicon, I've got a mix / match of systems - right now three of them are networked. I wouldn't classify them as "rigs" although I've build them from scratch. But the two I'm upgrading now are older "kid" system at the end of their life - the storage (hard drives & CDRW), case, monitors, video and memory can all be used (the P200 cpu and MB's have to go).

I figure with the ECS and Athelon 1600, it will stop the kids from complaining about their "crappy" systems that can't play their games - although certinly good enought to do homework

Then in a year, when they start to complain again, I'll throw in 512 of DDR memory, an upgraded video card and OC the AMD 1600 to 2100. That may buy me another year before I have to start from scratch again!

After this ecs / AMD upgrated - I will use the $$ I have left to build "MY RIG" - It certinly will be a higher performance board then the ECS K7S5A.

All hardware has it's place depending on its use, performance expectations and available funds


thanks for everyones advise - very helpfull

P200..2 setups with that chip..? with the attending power supplies/cases and memory..?..You sure? P200 should be AT PSU not ATX ..(could be wrong..easy to check..) if SIMMs for memory..definitely no working in newer mobos..the 2 ECS K7S5As I had had issues with PCI vid cards( there are no ISA slots..on the ECS in question..) as well...AGP vid card is fairly a must.