Suggestion to Modify Forum Guidelines (for clarity)

[Fern]

The 1st Rule or Guideline is:

1) No trolling, flaming or personally attacking members. Deftly attacking ideas and backing up arguments with facts is acceptable and encouraged. Attacking other members personally and purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd is not allowed.

If a member believes taht is occurring, the following rule instructs them to create a post about it in this forum (as well as other means):

12) Do not contact individual moderators. Please direct violations of these guidelines to moderator@anandtech.com, AnandTech Moderator by PM or post in Personal Forum Issues to request attention for something. Please be patient with moderation requests and inquiries. Users found in violation of this directive will be given only one warning and pointed in the right direction before further action is taken.

But we also have this rule with regards to Mods:

13) Baiting moderators will not be tolerated. Any action that reasonably can be considered baiting a moderator, or multiple consecutive actions that heavily push the boundaries of any of these guidelines will result in an instant short term vacation. Repeated violation of this rule may result in a permaban.

So, Nick1985 believes there is a violation of Rule #1 and creates a post about it in this forum in accordance with Rule#12

And this gets him a vacation?

I assume it may be because the Mods have concluded he violated Rule #13. But, unless I have a different understanding of "Baiting", I don't see how. Moreover, Rule #13 says "multiple consecutive actions..." will result in a vacation.

Surely I am not aware of all of Nick1985's posts, but so far I haven't seen him make multiple posts complaining of persoanl attacks by the poster he indicated. This seems his first time.

Therefore, I kindly request leniency on Nick1985's behalf (he does not know that I am doing this, in fact we have never communicated). He seems to have made a *good faith* post in accordance with the Guidelines as published. If he was given a vacation because the subject of his post was a Mod, I kindly request he be warned instead of given a vacation. It does not seem clear under the Guidelines that this is forbidden.

My suggestion is, if it is forbidden to post complaint's about a poster who also happens to ne a Mod, please make that clear in the *Members and Posting Guideline* section. Perhaps you may wish to instruct non-Mod members in this situation to use a PM only.

TIA,

Fern

EDIT: Just wanted you guys to know I do have email capability at this time (I would have preferred to use it). If after reading my request you wanna delete it, please feel free to do so.

EDIT #2: Which reminds me, I tried the PM link in Guidelines section and email popped up. Why not a regular PM? I suggest that as a possible change too. OK, strike that, my mistake, the link I clicked WAS email. Maybe just make it easier to PM a Mod.

Edit #3: You might wanna update the the Forum FAQS section. It still says Mods are anonymous etc.

 

[Turin39789]

Don't know anything about this issue, but wanted to recommend that you add the Anandtech Moderator as a forum buddy, and you will always be able to pm easily.

 

[ProfJohn]

Harvey has often claimed that he posts in P&N as a member not as a MOD.
If you go read the comments Nick was talking about it is clear that it was not Harvey the MOD making a comment, but Harvey the person.

If Harvey or any other MOD is engaging in personal attacks then members should have the right to question their actions.

Furthermore I thought the idea of this forum here was to create a place where we could discuss issues such as this in an open and honest way. But now you are sending the message that MODs are above reproach and their actions are unquestionable.
If that is the case then why have this forum at all?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Harvey has often claimed that he posts in P&N as a member not as a MOD.
If you go read the comments Nick was talking about it is clear that it was not Harvey the MOD making a comment, but Harvey the person.

If Harvey or any other MOD is engaging in personal attacks then members should have the right to question their actions.

Furthermore I thought the idea of this forum here was to create a place where we could discuss issues such as this in an open and honest way. But now you are sending the message that MODs are above reproach and their actions are unquestionable.
If that is the case then why have this forum at all?

Good point. Although I don't think what Harvey said in that instance was that big of a deal, especially compared to some of the other things that he (and the rest of us in P&N of course) have said before. But still, we are told that when mods are posting in threads that they are posting as regular members, not as mods. Which is perfectly fine, and I understand that, but when someone complains about their behavior you can't all of the sudden accuse them of calling out a mod....

I don't think that Nics complaint was very valid because the insult wasn't really that bad, but his thread here should have just been locked....

 

[JJChicken]

second the unbanning on nick1985. harvard (the person NOT the mod - i have no issues with his modding as of such) should be told to tone down his responses.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Pretty ridiculous that he was given a vacation for this. He had a valid complaint, even if you don't think it was severe enough to consider reprimanding Harvey. If mods are going to get special treatment while posting as a member, why even make their identities publicly known? It's just going to create more animosity between the general member base and mods. If anything, mods should be held to a higher standard because they are setting the tone for these forums and showing people what is right and acceptable.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Pretty ridiculous that he was given a vacation for this. He had a valid complaint, even if you don't think it was severe enough to consider reprimanding Harvey. If mods are going to get special treatment while posting as a member, why even make their identities publicly known? It's just going to create more animosity between the general member base and mods. If anything, mods should be held to a higher standard because they are setting the tone for these forums and showing people what is right and acceptable.

First of all - look at Nick's INTENT

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2082475&enterthread=y

it is right there in the title: "Another case of a mod getting a free pass to insult members"

is that not a "mod call-out"?

IF he had instead posted about the "member" in question, it would have been quite different, i believe. Nick changed it from a PFI thread to a call out - baiting the mods thread - that implys there is a "mod conspiracy" --In fact he says "I am going to keep trying to do something about it until I see results"

Nick claims to have "changed" ... i remember him all too well as a complainer ... someone that would tell you to get hit by a bus and then whine that he was being unfairly treated when he got a rebuke. He got the "results" he deserved in this case.

AFAIK, if you have a problem with a moderator ... contact the administrator by e-mail or PM. If you have a problem with a member, email the mods or post here.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Pretty ridiculous that he was given a vacation for this. He had a valid complaint, even if you don't think it was severe enough to consider reprimanding Harvey. If mods are going to get special treatment while posting as a member, why even make their identities publicly known? It's just going to create more animosity between the general member base and mods. If anything, mods should be held to a higher standard because they are setting the tone for these forums and showing people what is right and acceptable.

First of all - look at Nick's INTENT

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2082475&enterthread=y

it is right there in the title: "Another case of a mod getting a free pass to insult members"

is that not a "mod call-out"?

IF he had instead posted about the "member" in question, it would have been quite different, i believe. Nick changed it from a PFI thread to a call out - baiting the mods thread - that implys there is a "mod conspiracy": "Either [he] gets a free pass everytime he does this because he is a moderator, or its because the P&N mods are doing enough to stop these attacks. Frankly, I dont know which is worse."
--In fact he says "I am going to keep trying to do something about it until I see results"

Nick claims to have "changed" ... i remember him all too well as a complainer ... someone that would tell you to get hit by a bus and then whine that he was being unfairly treated when he got a rebuke. He got the "results" he deserved in this case.

AFAIK, if you have a problem with a moderator ... contact the administrator by e-mail or PM. If you have a problem with a member, email the mods or post here.

And why can't we post about mods here? This is the type of special treatment we're talking about. If we do something worthy of being mentioned, it can and should be posted here for open discussion. Why not the same for the mods?

 

[apoppin]

did you even read my post? ... i know you didn't give my arguments any consideration in the two minutes it took you to reply

there are no mod "call out" threads allowed ... take it up with he administrator

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: apoppin



did you even read my post? ... i know you didn't give my arguments any consideration in the two minutes it took you to reply

there are no mod "call out" threads allowed ... take it up with he administrator

Did you read mine? Why do mods deserve special treatment when posting as a member?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: apoppin



did you even read my post? ... i know you didn't give my arguments any consideration in the two minutes it took you to reply

there are no mod "call out" threads allowed ... take it up with he administrator

Did you read mine? Why do mods deserve special treatment when posting as a member?

it is the same question without reading or understanding - or even acknowledging - my arguments

You still don't get it at all ... you can have a dispute with any "member" here ... however, you cannot call out the mod as Nick did. If he had an issue with Harvey's post or him - as a member- he should have stuck to that issue. It had noting to do with Harvey as a mod and Nick actually baited ALL the mods by saying they are in a "conspiracy"

Here are the rules again:

13) Baiting moderators will not be tolerated. Any action that reasonably can be considered baiting a moderator, or multiple consecutive actions that heavily push the boundaries of any of these guidelines will result in an instant short term vacation. Repeated violation of this rule may result in a permaban.

Anything further - take it up with the Administrator

 

[ProfJohn]

Poppin? if this had been the first time that someone had complained about Harvey you would have a valid point. But there are at least three threads in forum that discuss Harvey and his insults.
Nick's thread
yllus' thread
Third would be this thread.


Here?s my analogy on this:
Some guy gets arrested and complains the cop hit him a few times. The cop denies it, you figure it?s just a perp trying to make trouble.

But then you get complaint after complain about the same cop and sooner or later the light goes off?. Hmmmm maybe we have a problem here.

Well there are a lot of us filling complaint after complaint and nothing seems to change. I think some of us are starting to get the feeling that you are just covering for Harvey because he is a fellow MOD.

In addition we have had two members (Jrenz & Nick) vacationed for either questioning Harvey or responding to Harvey with insults and attacks of their own.

It?s like a blue wall around here, question the authorities and get thrown in the slammer.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: apoppin



did you even read my post? ... i know you didn't give my arguments any consideration in the two minutes it took you to reply

there are no mod "call out" threads allowed ... take it up with he administrator

Did you read mine? Why do mods deserve special treatment when posting as a member?

it is the same question without reading or understanding - or even acknowledging - my arguments

You still don't get it at all ... you can have a dispute with any "member" here ... however, you cannot call out the mod as Nick did. If he had an issue with Harvey's post or him - as a member- he should have stuck to that issue. It had noting to do with Harvey as a mod and Nick actually baited ALL the mods by saying they are in a "conspiracy"

Here are the rules again:

13) Baiting moderators will not be tolerated. Any action that reasonably can be considered baiting a moderator, or multiple consecutive actions that heavily push the boundaries of any of these guidelines will result in an instant short term vacation. Repeated violation of this rule may result in a permaban.

Anything further - take it up with the Administrator

thats bullshit.

If harvey breaks the rules we can't post pointing out what someone did? Harvey did not make the as a mod. he made it as harvey. so nick posting the thread about it is calling out a mod?

seems to me you can't have it both ways.

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: apoppin



did you even read my post? ... i know you didn't give my arguments any consideration in the two minutes it took you to reply

there are no mod "call out" threads allowed ... take it up with he administrator

Did you read mine? Why do mods deserve special treatment when posting as a member?

it is the same question without reading or understanding - or even acknowledging - my arguments

You still don't get it at all ... you can have a dispute with any "member" here ... however, you cannot call out the mod as Nick did. If he had an issue with Harvey's post or him - as a member- he should have stuck to that issue. It had noting to do with Harvey as a mod and Nick actually baited ALL the mods by saying they are in a "conspiracy"

Here are the rules again:

13) Baiting moderators will not be tolerated. Any action that reasonably can be considered baiting a moderator, or multiple consecutive actions that heavily push the boundaries of any of these guidelines will result in an instant short term vacation. Repeated violation of this rule may result in a permaban.

Anything further - take it up with the Administrator

thats bullshit.

If harvey breaks the rules we can't post pointing out what someone did? Harvey did not make the as a mod. he made it as harvey. so nick posting the thread about it is calling out a mod?

seems to me you can't have it both ways.

Sure we can. If it doesn't say Moderator under the user name, PM the Mod account. If it says Moderator, PM DerekWilson.

/thread

let me clarify -- you can post threads complaining about any members actions. if they are a mod do not mention it at all. if they violated the member guidelines we want to know about it and we will take care of it. and it is a simple request to ask that complaints leave the very irrelevant information as to the mod status of the member out of it.

if you have a problem with the way a moderator moderates (as per our moderator guidelines) that's a different issue -- please let us know what the mod did that violated our guidelines in that sense.

but if it's a general member or posting guideline in question, mod status is way off limits as part of the complaint.

DerekWilson