Suggest a topology for a small business network (5 users)

[JEDI]

A friend of mine is starting a business and asked me for computer help.

He plans to have ~4 employees to start, but if successful, he estimates it's grow to about 20 employees in the next 2 yrs.

All computers are WinXP Pro.

For 5 users, i thought Microsoft Windows Network. but at 20 employees, thats going to get unwieldy.

Suggestions?

 

[DaiShan]

Just start with an 8 port switch and a router. If he does indeed end up with 20 users than you can re-evaluate your options and upgrade to a domain if you like.

 

[nweaver]

Topology: Star, single 8 port switch, link to each PC

 

[InlineFive]

Yeah, don't bother wasting money unnecessarily right now. Especially if your friend isn't sure that his business is going to be successful.

Currently I would just get a decent firewall and a switch and just run a workgroup network. Later on when your friends has money oozing out of his pores you can upgrade to a domain, gigabit, etc.

 

[XiZiT]

I just remembered your post, so here is a really really useful application for server administration. I'm not sure if there are better ones out there, but for under 10 users or less, this app is free and you can't beat that nowhere else.

 

[Tsaico]

Originally posted by: XiZiT
I just remembered your post, so here is a really really useful application for server administration. I'm not sure if there are better ones out there, but for under 10 users or less, this app is free and you can't beat that nowhere else.

But that application requires him to have AD, and I am not sure he wants to do that kind of work for a compnay that might not make it and has only 5 employees at the moment.

I would just go with the good router/firewall, switch then out to all the users. Get a good outside email host and have them collaberate at each other's desks... Or buy that cheapy NAS i saw floating around these forums. But I wholeheartly agree with make this one minimal in the sense of topology.

But when he is confident that he will not be going out of buisness, then you can re-evaluate.

 

[RebateMonger]

No matter what you decide, be sure to have a backup plan and test the backups. Somebody needs to be in charge of seeing that backups are made.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: TsaicoI would just go with the good router/firewall, switch then out to all the users. Get a good outside email host and have them collaberate at each other's desks... Or buy that cheapy NAS i saw floating around these forums. But I wholeheartly agree with make this one minimal in the sense of topology.

But when he is confident that he will not be going out of buisness, then you can re-evaluate.

so just use the dsl modem/router that comes from Verizon?

and i know nothing about email (ie: exchange). anything simple i can use for email? or just use gmail?

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
No matter what you decide, be sure to have a backup plan and test the backups. Somebody needs to be in charge of seeing that backups are made.

i was looking at THIS for backup. PCMag gave it editors choice.

What do you think?

 

[Askalon]

My thoughts on this subject..
I know everyone is saying to skip the server/domain right now and i can see both the good and the bad on this.
The good: Saves money up front, can be simple for the person setting it up,
The bad: can cost more to switch over to a domain later, retrain employess where to get files/info, backup is a hassle, nothing centralized.

For what it is worth, I would go and grab a cheap dell or HP server and set it up right the first time, then you can always upgrade the hardware later if needed.

I know I have seen quotes for a server with backup, antivirus (for only 5 users you can use Norton Buiness pack), and a couple hard drives mirriored go out for as little as $3,000* and if you can find a place, grab a lease for 3 yrs so that it is a small monthly cost with a buy out or upgrade at the end.
For email /website it looks so un-professional to have a @hotmail, aol, or someother domain that is not yours. For $200 for 2 yrs, grab your domain @ www.ipowerweb.com. If you choose the 2 yr plan, you get your domain for free.

If he wants to hosts his own email with exchange, then go with MS Windows 2003 Small Business Server, it costs more upfront but includes the license for exchange with it. However, it has a 75 user max limit. If he really grows in the next 3 yrs, you may want to look at server standard and add exchange to it.

Like I said, just my thoughts.


* this also includes our time to install the server, YMMV.

 

[JackMDS]

The issue is Not really a technological issue.

Option 1. Make a simple peer to peer Network (like most of us have at home) and let it roll.

Option 2. Install a central Server like Windows2003SBS with Exchange and create the base to a real professional system.

The decision at this point seems to be dominated by Financial and future expansion plans, and has to be explained in plain English to the owner.

Before you do any thing get few books and learn the issues. Solving an important business decision by asking questions on a public Forum is Not giving a fair shake to your friend.

:sun:

 

[WackyDan]

If cost is the issue, skip hosting your own server and mail, and pay a local business or online host to do it for you... Less up front costs, and if the business fails, he can simply kill the account.

 

[helppls]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
No matter what you decide, be sure to have a backup plan and test the backups. Somebody needs to be in charge of seeing that backups are made.

i was looking at THIS for backup. PCMag gave it editors choice.

What do you think?

Well, they'd probably benefit from a fileserver. I'd just build/buy a samba file server with some sort of RAID backup: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6558 . That article covers some of the caveats.

http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Software-RAID-HOWTO-1.html#ss1.2

Here's another option: http://aws.amazon.com/s3

I put it here because I just remembered it. But thinking about it now, it may be the best option. Scalable, no start up cost, no electrical costs (like the fileserver would have).

 

[InlineFive]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
No matter what you decide, be sure to have a backup plan and test the backups. Somebody needs to be in charge of seeing that backups are made.

i was looking at THIS for backup. PCMag gave it editors choice.

What do you think?

It just uses tiny hard drives. For that kind of solution I would rather just buy a few hard drives and enclosures from NewEgg.

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: WackyDan
If cost is the issue, skip hosting your own server and mail, and pay a local business or online host to do it for you... Less up front costs, and if the business fails, he can simply kill the account.

That is the direction I would go. A decent host will cost you much less over the course of the first couple of years, and does not require the expertise to manage your own server situation.
If you pay the frieght to set up a exchange server and don't pay to keep it patched, you could get owned.

 

[Askalon]

Originally posted by: skyking

Originally posted by: WackyDan
If cost is the issue, skip hosting your own server and mail, and pay a local business or online host to do it for you... Less up front costs, and if the business fails, he can simply kill the account.

That is the direction I would go. A decent host will cost you much less over the course of the first couple of years, and does not require the expertise to manage your own server situation.
If you pay the frieght to set up a exchange server and don't pay to keep it patched, you could get owned.

True, but usually you have to sign a term contract, so if the business does fail, he would still be responsible for the contract (though I am not sure what liability it would be).

I would get quotes both ways and then look at not only the bottom line now, but what about in three years when the business is booming and then has to reset everything up to go local vs an outside vendor.

fwiw, I would only go with website and email to be offsite hosted. I would still either use a PC or something in house for file sahres and application sharing (if any)

 

[nweaver]

Hard drives are not a backup

raid is not a backup

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: nweaver
Hard drives are not a backup

raid is not a backup

LOL! I was going to mention that, but figured somedody else would. Backup means a non-volatile situation, and any hard drive or arrangement of hard drives can (and will eventually) let you down.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: skyking

Originally posted by: nweaver
Hard drives are not a backup

raid is not a backup

LOL! I was going to mention that, but figured somedody else would. Backup means a non-volatile situation, and any hard drive or arrangement of hard drives can (and will eventually) let you down.

Raid 5 plus rotated offsite backups (on either cd/dvd's/tapes or external harddrives) should be adequate. Yes hard drives will fail, that is a given, but Raid 5 will allow a drive to fail, and your offsite backup ensures that if your building catches fire your data is still safe.

Anyways OP, I know that this is a lot of information for you right now, but why don't you sit down with your friend and see what his expectations are and his budget. It may be that he has plenty of financial backing and his business could double or triple relatively quickly, in which case a server might be the best option. If this is the case, please either hire a professional, or do some reading to make sure that you understand the issues that deploying a server yourself will entail, because I can gaurantee that your friend will not be happy if his box gets owned and he loses months of work.

/edit I forgot to mention that I've recently switched a client from a simple switch + router network to one utilizing an AD domain. The switch is really pretty painless, you set up the server and get everything to spec, then start adding users to the domain. The technological part of the switch isn't the hard part, it's the training. In my particular case all that I had to do was show them how to use their home drive to save all of their files to the server. I don't want you to think that whatever solution you choose now will have to fit their business model 5 or 10 years down the road (actually it's pretty unlikely that it will no matter what you do)

 

[WackyDan]

Originally posted by: Askalon

Originally posted by: skyking

Originally posted by: WackyDan
If cost is the issue, skip hosting your own server and mail, and pay a local business or online host to do it for you... Less up front costs, and if the business fails, he can simply kill the account.

That is the direction I would go. A decent host will cost you much less over the course of the first couple of years, and does not require the expertise to manage your own server situation.
If you pay the frieght to set up a exchange server and don't pay to keep it patched, you could get owned.

True, but usually you have to sign a term contract, so if the business does fail, he would still be responsible for the contract (though I am not sure what liability it would be).

I would get quotes both ways and then look at not only the bottom line now, but what about in three years when the business is booming and then has to reset everything up to go local vs an outside vendor.

fwiw, I would only go with website and email to be offsite hosted. I would still either use a PC or something in house for file sahres and application sharing (if any)

I still think the contract if any for off site hosting of web and mail is worth the savings... Not having to deal/manage that part of the business while you focus on growing is potentially a huge time and cost saver, not to mention that you will have more reliability from a hosted solution.

A file server is a good idea, but again, simple is best. A low cost Multi-Drive NAS is probably going to be the most bullet proof easy to manage solution out there for the $$$.

Again, You want to focus on the business, not IT.

 

[Podolak]

Again, You want to focus on the business, not IT.

What? NO! Don't tell him that. It is all about the IT!!!

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Podolak

Again, You want to focus on the business, not IT.

What? NO! Don't tell him that. It is all about the IT!!!

:evil:

 

[Goosemaster]

My opinion (one of many)

many posters in here gave you good advice: start simple

Just get a router/firewall and an 8-port switch. Keep it simple

For security, just buy zone alarm or some software firewall for their machines. Honestly, security appliances costa LOT of money and while many might see the cost as justified, many won't

If you are eager to setup a good security system setup ipcop or unix or linux or soemthing

-Email(webamail) can be outsourced.
-a server (basically a $399 dell) for network backups is a good idea regardless. Jsut share all the important documents on the LAN and have it periodically back them up
As for what tape drive to get, you can get a lower-end Travan model for like $150 and it will do whatever you need it to do

-I would also suggest starting out with windows xp pro on your clients so that moving to a domain won't be so costly

 

[tfinch2]

I would trust backing up to CD/DVD media more than backing up to a RAID config.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
I would trust backing up to CD/DVD media more than backing up to a RAID config.

I think quite a few poeple made it clear that RAID is not meant as a backup tool...


hopefully the OP listens