sudden computer shutdowns during games

[Rickyohead]

i just built a new computer (first time). everything has been relatively smooth.

for some reason recently my computer shuts down unexpectedly during half-life 2, or during graphic intense games. my surge protector gives a loud beep warning, and if I don't hit the kill switch in time, the computer shuts down on its own.

i have an ati radeon 9800 pro (might be faulty) and a 480W Thermaltake PSU (plenty right?). I don't think it's software or driver related, but rather power related. EVEREST reports about 45-50C for the CPU, 35C Motherboard, so I don't think it's temperature related.

i don't overclock or mess with the bios settings.

any suggestions?!

 

[imported_Phil]

When the computer shuts off, feel the graphics card's heatsink - is it too hot to touch? Is it warm, or worse still, cold? If it's cold, then it's probably not making proper contact with the core and thus the card is simply shutting off.

If it's too hot to touch, then your case ventilation is probably lacking.

Also, remember to install the latest DirectX and Catalyst drivers. It's unlikely to be that in this case, but it's worth a try.

 

[Rickyohead]

after a sudden shutdown the GPU heatsink/fan feels warm...but not too hot to touch.

my case has 1 rear 120mm fan (above graphics card) and the power supply has 2 fans (one pulling up, one pushing out the back). There is a spot for an intake 120mm fan in the front bottom, but I thought this case would be fine with only one fan in the back.

I do have the latest drivers installed (catalyst, directx, agp chipset). would the graphics card crashing really cause the entire computer to overload the surge protector and shut off the whole computer? I thought my monitor would just go black.

thanks for helping me troubleshoot this.

 

[daveybrat]

Are you sure it's a surge protector or a UPS battery backup you're using? I've never seen a surge suppressor that makes noises. And if it is just a cheapie surge suppressor, then i highly suggest going out and either buying a good one, or buying a battery backup device instead. You should be able to get a decent one for under $50.

good luck

 

[Rickyohead]

my bad. wrong description it's an APC battery backup, not a power strip or anything like that.

i'm not sure how long it's supposted to keep my computer alive if the power goes out, but it gives me about 5-10 seconds of 2 or 3 beeps before it gives up and shuts the computer off when I have this game crashing problem.

 

[Uncle Bob]

this does sound like a heat/power issue. the TT psu has adjustable fan control right?, try running all fans running at max for a while and see if problem is resolved.

 

[KGB]

Rick,

Try running without the APC and see if it still happens.
Perhaps it's defective or under-powered.

 

[Navid]

What is the power rating of the UPS? It should be more than what your PC needs. I am talking about the Wattage not VA.

It is very likely that your UPS cannot provide enough power when you run a graphics intensive application since the power requirement of the graphics card goes up when you run 3D.

 

[Rickyohead]

looks like I have to narrow this one down.

I'll run my adjustable PSU fan at max, (main fan is about 3500rpm, adjustable gets from 600RPM to above 3000RPM);

I'll add an intake fan in the front;

I'll try playing without plugging into the APC;

I'll try switching in a friends video card.

Is there a way to monitor the 9800pro's temperature? What is a dangerous temperature that would cause it to shut down my entire computer? I don't see the GPU temp info in EVEREST or speedfan.

 

[Rickyohead]

Originally posted by: Navid
What is the power rating of the UPS? It should be more than what your PC needs. I am talking about the Wattage not VA.

It is very likely that your UPS cannot provide enough power when you run a graphics intensive application since the power requirement of the graphics card goes up when you run 3D.

i'm at work right now but when I get home I can check out the wattage of the battery backup. Does it need to be higher than my TT 480W PSU? I think the 9800 pro recommended a 350W power supply so I thought the 480W would be plenty. But now I see how the APC UPS could be limiting power....

what's weird is that I have had HL2 for over a month and was able to play it and beat it without this crashing problem on the older computer (athlon xp 1800, same GPU, PSU). The card however has always shown graphics problems and glitches in the game, on both setups (trails, see through objects, flickering, etc.)

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: Rickyohead

i'm at work right now but when I get home I can check out the wattage of the battery backup. Does it need to be higher than my TT 480W PSU? I think the 9800 pro recommended a 350W power supply so I thought the 480W would be plenty. But now I see how the APC UPS could be limiting power....

what's weird is that I have had HL2 for over a month and was able to play it and beat it without this crashing problem on the older computer (athlon xp 1800, same GPU, PSU). The card however has always shown graphics problems and glitches in the game, on both setups (trails, see through objects, flickering, etc.)

You probably have other things connected to the UPS too like the monitor. The monitor alone may take more than 100W. Do you have your speakers also powered by the UPS?
You have to add them all up to come up with what the UPS needs to provide.

The fact thet your UPS beeps is a sign that it is loaded too much. This is either because you need a stronger UPS, or the graphics card is faulty and draws too much current from the 12V rail. That translate into the PSU drawing too mch current from the UPS.

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: Rickyohead
Is there a way to monitor the 9800pro's temperature? What is a dangerous temperature that would cause it to shut down my entire computer? I don't see the GPU temp info in EVEREST or speedfan.

The only way is to get a sensor and mount on it. That graphics card does not have an internal sensor. So, no software utility can show you its temperature. If you had 9800XT, you could monitor the temperature with a software utility (ATItool).

 

[Rickyohead]

Yes, the monitor has been plugged in the UPS with the computer. There are only 2 plugs in the back of the battery backup. Computer in one, monitor in the other.

the UPS is kinda old, here's the info from the back of it:

Model: BK300C <-----does this refer to 300W total?

BK200:130W BK300:180W <------do these refer to each plug?

I'll make sure not to plug the monitor into it anymore. I'm trying to find a chart that shows about how much wattage each computer component requires. Should I get a new battery backup with a higher wattage to support my computer?

 

[Navid]

You can see the specification for that UPS here.

It is 300VA and 180W. The 300VA figure tells you the maximum current that you can draw from it. Since the voltage is 115V, the maximum current you can draw from a 300VA unit is 300/115=2.6A.

The 180W figure tells you the maximum power you can get from the unit.

What happens is that when you run a 3D application, the current goes up to a level that is more than what the UPS can handle. As a result, it beeps.

I would remove the system from the UPS and look for a stronger UPS.

 

[Rickyohead]

geez. does that mean my monitor was taking up about 100W, and only 80W available to the computer?!

I think I need to toss this hand-me-down UPS.

thank you so much for all this info and advice. is there a certain model you would recommend for my setup (good value $$)?

 

[Navid]

One option is this.

One problem with it is that it is extremely heavy! The other is that APC is very well known for UPS devices. Every company I have worked at has always used APC UPS devices. I am not sure about the quality of any other brand. But, if you want to get this power level (450W) in APC, you would have to pay much more.

This is another option. It is APC. It is, however, only 300W. It should solve your problem. But, it may only give you a few minutes of run time with no power on the line.

This is another deal. But, I think it is an overkill!

 

[mechBgon]

For the system in your signature, I would probably get one of these. Note that the VA rating doesn't translate into runtime in any way... at work we have some SmartUPS 750XL's :heart: and I could stack on several thousand dollars' worth of add-on battery modules, and hit runtimes of up to 48 hours, but they're still a 750VA unit no matter what.

 

[Rickyohead]

Originally posted by: Navid
One option is this.

One problem with it is that it is extremely heavy! The other is that APC is very well known for UPS devices. Every company I have worked at has always used APC UPS devices. I am not sure about the quality of any other brand. But, if you want to get this power level (450W) in APC, you would have to pay much more.

This is another option. It is APC. It is, however, only 300W. It should solve your problem. But, it may only give you a few minutes of run time with no power on the line.

This is another deal. But, I think it is an overkill!

300W wouldn't be enough to power my machine? I really like the looks of the XS 1000, but it probably is overkill. I will look for something inbetween the two. I would like to stick with the APC brand.

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: Rickyohead


300W wouldn't be enough to power my machine? I really like the looks of the XS 1000, but it probably is overkill. I will look for something inbetween the two. I would like to stick with the APC brand.

Don't forget that you want to connect your monitor to it also. Otherwise, when there is no power, you will not be able to see anything on the monitor!