SUCCESS - New build

[rtownsend]

Do not read entire thread if intent is to give advice.

I've completed the build. I order all parts from NewEgg (I live about an hour away from their distribution center in Southern California, so we decided not to shop price) at about 11 am yesterday (4/21), the parts were delivered at 2pm today (4/22) ! , and I completed the build about 8pm. Running memtest, no problems. Quiet, too. Thanks again everyone!

Robert






Hello,

I'm doing a build for my sister, and would appreciated the once-over.

Purpose: It will be used for all purpose computing. Browsing, editing publisher documents, streaming nature webcams, other misc. I'd like to build in a certain degree of furture-proofing, meaning, for example, I think the 3D web is coming, etc. Multiple monitors are also possible in the future (she got used to them at work).

Budget: Below $2000. Not real sensitive here. More important is component compatability, low noise, durability, quality, feature completeness.

Country: U.S.

Brand: Pretty sold in the i5 at this point in time. Hard drives: my experience is a pretty high failure rate. Recommending a very reliable hard drive would be greatly appreciated. Graphics card: ATI 5850 seems to be the sweet spot right now.

Reusing parts: Intend to reuse monitor, keyboard, mouse, 2 internal IDE drives for data storage and data backup. 22" Acer monitor (1680x1050@60Hz, DVI and VGA connectors), Logitech Office Comfort keyboard (PS/2 connector), and Logitech MX518 mouse (USB connector, PS/2 adaptor possible).

Reading other threads: I have done some web research, and feel pretty confident about this build, but would like the once-over, if possible, by more experienced builders (like for noise level, component compatability, durability, quality, feature completeness, specific memory to buy, hard drive reliability, etc).

Speed: Plan on running at default speed.

Gaming: No current plans to 3D game. 3D gaming possible in the future (3D web), multiple monitors possible in the future (she got used to them at work, and likes multiple monitors).

Timeframe: Ordering parts within a week.


Proposed Parts List:

I have not shopped these prices yet. If you have any 'you should be able to get that cheapest here' comments, I'd like to hear that (from well known web retailers).

UPDATED LIST:
Motherboard, GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard, SATA 3.0, USB 3.0, 3x USB power, $133
Processor, Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor, $200
Memory: G.SKILL 4GB (2X2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ, $110
Graphics, SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100283VXL Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card, $175
Optical Drive, LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA Model iHAS424-98 LightScribe Support, $32
Case, Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, $60
Power Supply, CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply, $80
Drive, Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2MH080G2R5 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD), $215
Operating System, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit OEM, $100

$1105 ($1005 excluding Windows, $860 excluding Windows and SSD premium) Done?


OLD LIST:
Motherboard, Gigabyte X58A-UD7, $350
Processor, Intel Core i7-920 Socket LGA 1366 45nm, $279
Memory, Crucial 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model CT3KIT25664BA1067, $169
CPU Cooler, Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme 1366 RT Rev.C CPU Cooler, $60
Graphics, Sapphire Toxic 100282TXSR Radeon HD 5850, $369
Optical Drive, LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA Model iHAS424-98 LightScribe Support, $32
Case, Antec Twelve Hundred Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case, $160
Power, CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply, $140
Hard Drives, Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST3500418AS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive , $55
Operating System, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit OEM, $100

$1714 ($1614 excluding Windows)


Personal build experience: 2 builds.

Thanks in advance,

Robert

P.S. Don't forget the noise level - quiet is good!

P.P.S. The reasons for proposed component changes are appreciated. I like learning more every day!

 

[MisterDonut]

Welcome to AT!

I don't think you need such a powerful (and expensive) processor for your needs. For general usage, you can make a build for <$500 or so...no need to spend $2k. There isn't really any way to future-proof parts. New ones will always be coming around the corner. Shoot for hardware that will fit your needs (including predicted needs).

You also don't need a high end CPU cooler if you're not overclocking. Stock cooler will do that just fine. If there's nothing graphic intensive you are doing, you don't need something so expensive. That also goes for the full-tower and PSU. In my honest opinion, it's all overkill. I'm sure you can find a nice pre-built from Dell that will do general computing.

If you wanna build your own, you can do an i5-750 + P7P55D + older dedicated (4770 perhaps?) + 4gb RAM + Antec 300 + Antec 500W PSU + the rest of the stuff (using stock CPU cooler).

There's always the option of a cheaper AMD 620 build which would save you about $150 on the spot. It won't be as fast as the i5-750, but for what you need your computer for, you won't be able to tell. If you do intend to drop down to the 620, You can take the money saved and buy an SSD for a boot drive (even if you go with i5-750, you can get an SSD too). It will probably feel like the biggest upgrade for general computing usage.

 

[rtownsend]

Welcome to AT!

Thank you!

I don't think you need such a powerful (and expensive) processor for your needs. For general usage, you can make a build for <$500 or so...no need to spend $2k. There isn't really any way to future-proof parts. New ones will always be coming around the corner. Shoot for hardware that will fit your needs (including predicted needs).

I wasn't really thinking of future-proofing parts, but more of getting a cool running, quiet, high performance computer that would be able to cruise through expected performance needs in the future - running 3D web, multiple monitors, etc. Including 5 years from now and more...

You also don't need a high end CPU cooler if you're not overclocking. Stock cooler will do that just fine. If there's nothing graphic intensive you are doing, you don't need something so expensive. That also goes for the full-tower and PSU. In my honest opinion, it's all overkill. I'm sure you can find a nice pre-built from Dell that will do general computing.

Well, my experience with Dell is: proprietary hardware, designed to just meet needs now (unless you buy the higher end). My sister's current computer is a Dell, and I have personal experience with Dell. In fact, I bought my first PC from Dell (trivia fact: Did you know Dell used to be called PC's Limited?). I know it's a performance overkill now, but probably won't be in 5 years. This isn't a computer that's going to be replaced every 2 years, like a lot of gamers (and me, if I could afford it).

If you wanna build your own, you can do an i5-750 + P7P55D + older dedicated (4770 perhaps?) + 4gb RAM + Antec 300 + Antec 500W PSU + the rest of the stuff (using stock CPU cooler).

There's always the option of a cheaper AMD 620 build which would save you about $150 on the spot. It won't be as fast as the i5-750, but for what you need your computer for, you won't be able to tell. If you do intend to drop down to the 620, You can take the money saved and buy an SSD for a boot drive (even if you go with i5-750, you can get an SSD too). It will probably feel like the biggest upgrade for general computing usage.

Thanks for your input. I don't really want to build a computer that's 'just enough for right now'. I've regretted that in the past.

I'm a little timid about SSDs. Don't they have a built in finite life, or have I missed the latest and greatest?

Note: not real price sensitive. She's fortunate enough to have a few bucks to throw at this. I know, makes me sick, too.

 

[MisterDonut]

The i5-750 would last you a very, very long time, and the TurboBoost should compensate for any processing power deficiencies (though there will very likely be none). That build should last a ways down the road for general computing. The only argument here for you to pick up an AM3 chip would be because Intel is replacing 1156 soon with Sandybridge (rumored to be 1155?) while AM3 supports both the current quad chips (Deneb, Propus, etc.) from AMD and the new hexacore Thuban. I doubt you need the 6-cores, so the i5-750 will do you justice.

Most SSDs have TRIM (you should always find one that supports it), which helps keep the drives "in shape." You can read a lot about that over a few AT articles (Home page, SSD section), but it basically wipes data blocks that aren't being used (while your drive is idle). Putting them in RAID0 removes the TRIM command, so if you are considering that, you would need resilient drives or an aggressive GC. Its main purpose is to prevent performance degradation.

 

[rtownsend]

Yeah, I don't think she'll need hyperthreading. The i5 should do fine. It'll save on power costs, too. How about these changes:

Processor, Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor, $200
Power, SeaSonic X650 Gold 650W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply, $159
Motherboard, GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD4P LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard w/ USB 3.0 & SATA 6 Gb/s, $170

Possible memory kit change.

Savings: $220

The TRIM thing is not what I was talking about. I've read (not recently) that SSDs inherently will wear out over time, and that's why they are recommended for operating system partitions, but not actively/frequently changing data partitions. If this is true, it would still make me a little uncomfortable using an SSD. But I don't like hard drive reliability, either. Hmmmm.....

 

[fffblackmage]

The TRIM thing is not what I was talking about. I've read (not recently) that SSDs inherently will wear out over time, and that's why they are recommended for operating system partitions, but not actively/frequently changing data partitions. If this is true, it would still make me a little uncomfortable using an SSD. But I don't like hard drive reliability, either. Hmmmm.....

While normal hard drives fail too at some point, SSDs are no exception. The NAND flash does degrade after many writes and rewrites, but the controller is designed to take that into account. Even with the degradation, you're still looking at a usable SSD that will last for quite some time.

HDDs are mechanical. Mechanical failures aren't uncommon and they always fail at some point due to wear and tear. SSDs are purely circuitry, and circuitry generally last for quite a long time. So, that's another way to look at it.

I wasn't really thinking of future-proofing parts, but more of getting a cool running, quiet, high performance computer that would be able to cruise through expected performance needs in the future - running 3D web, multiple monitors, etc. Including 5 years from now and more...

My dad is still using a comp with an Athlon XP 2000+ (8-year-old budget comp). He's perfectly fine with using it for email, websurfing, and watching videos on youtube.

On the other hand, things like "3D web" or anything that would be demanding isn't gonna work that well 5 years from now. It'll work, but it's gonna be slow however you look at it.
If you think about Moore's law, you're looking at a computer that will be at least 4 times faster than what you will be building now.

Any cheap video card that can support multiple monitors will continue to work fine in the future. I can't think of a reason a "general purpose" computer would need a high-end video card.

 

[aaron.adley]

Wrong RAM. You need DDR2 for that motherboard. On a side note, I'd recommend you get an Asus motherboard, or at least a Gigabyte. Biostar isn't a good brand. You want to spend at least $100 on the motherboard, and since you're saving money not buying DDR3 RAM, it shouldn't change the overall price of your computer.

 

[rtownsend]

While normal hard drives fail too at some point, SSDs are no exception. The NAND flash does degrade after many writes and rewrites, but the controller is designed to take that into account. Even with the degradation, you're still looking at a usable SSD that will last for quite some time.

Define 'quite some time'. That's the problem I have. I'd like to know, under normal OS partition usage, the MTBF (mean time between failure), or some other solid engineering number. Also, which specific SSD is at the top of the heap now? When they first came out, Intel was the one. What about now?

HDDs are mechanical. Mechanical failures aren't uncommon and they always fail at some point due to wear and tear. SSDs are purely circuitry, and circuitry generally last for quite a long time. So, that's another way to look at it.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of hard drives. I'm looking at a stack of failed drives across the room. Sad, really. I'm a mechanical engineer.

I can't think of a reason a "general purpose" computer would need a high-end video card.

I should have used the phrase 'All-Purpose' computer. 'General Purpose' computer is too vague. While I can't precisely anticipate how long a higher end 3D card will 'do the job', whatever that job may be in the future, I'd like to stay near the high end for longevity. I know computers are going to get more and more powerful. The application set that needs more power than a 5850 will probably be pretty narrow for quite some time.

 

[rtownsend]

Wrong RAM. You need DDR2 for that motherboard. On a side note, I'd recommend you get an Asus motherboard, or at least a Gigabyte. Biostar isn't a good brand. You want to spend at least $100 on the motherboard, and since you're saving money not buying DDR3 RAM, it shouldn't change the overall price of your computer.

I think you posted to the wrong thread.

 

[rtownsend]

I think I'll try one of these for the OS drive. MTBF = 1,200,000 hours

Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2MH080G2R5 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

 

[fffblackmage]

Define 'quite some time'. That's the problem I have. I'd like to know, under normal OS partition usage, the MTBF (mean time between failure), or some other solid engineering number.

Heh. I chose to say "quite some time" because I don't have solid number. For one thing, I don't think SSDs have been around long enough for us to have a good idea how long they'll last under real world use.

An Anandtech review mentioned the useful lifetime of an Intel SSD:

...
The 50nm flash used in the launch drives are rated at 10,000 erase/programming but like many of Intel's products there's a lot of built in margin. Apparently it shouldn't be unexpected to see 2, 3 or 4x the rated lifespan out of these things, depending on temperature and usage model obviously.

Given the 100GB per day x 5 year lifespan of Intel's MLC SSDs, there's no cause for concern from a data reliability perspective for the desktop/notebook usage case. High load transactional database servers could easily outlast the lifespan of MLC flash and that's where SLC is really aimed at.
...

So unless you're computer's purpose is to be a server, seems like you don't really have to worry about the SSD degrading and dying anytime soon.

which specific SSD is at the top of the heap now? When they first came out, Intel was the one. What about now?

Intel's SSDs are still excellent.

Indilinx-based SSDs are generally more affordable, but still great performers.

Supposedly, Jmicron fixed the stuttering issues, but I'd still be cautious.

And Sandforce-based SSDs are the newest and is the new top performer. I believe one died on Anand though, so there's a question of reliability. However, if you're worried about NAND flash degrading from re-writing, Sandforce has write amplification as low as 0.5x. The way that works is like compressing data before writing it to the flash memory.

While I can't precisely anticipate how long a higher end 3D card will 'do the job', whatever that job may be in the future, I'd like to stay near the high end for longevity. I know computers are going to get more and more powerful. The application set that needs more power than a 5850 will probably be pretty narrow for quite some time.

Hah, definitely. I'm not sure what you'll be doing in the future that would need a high-end graphics card, but you're probably better off just getting it then rather than now. If anything, it seemed like Nvidia's 470/480 would be better for things other than just gaming, but given the cost, I'd still wait.

If you want to display 3 monitors with a single video card, definitely get an ATI video card. You'll need one monitor that can do DisplayPort or get an adapter though. Otherwise, just about any graphics card can do two displays.

 

[Ichigo]

HD 5770 for Eyefinity. The hell do you need a 5850 for.

Cap the budget at $1000. Save the $1000 for in 3 years where you can buy a better one that will last you another 3 years.

You gain nothing by spending the extra grand now. The others have pointed this out. I'm reinforcing.

 

[yh125d]

Uhhhh



Believe me, buying an expensive computer now so that it will still work in 5 years is a bad idea. You would absolutely be much better buying a modest machine. It is much better to buy two $1000 PCs in a six year span than one $2000 PC.

For one, your sisters needs are very modest. As in, a $500 dell would be more than plenty. Two, your proposed parts are more like what someone would buy for a heavy gaming rig, not a general light use PC. Don't make the mistake of buying a PC you don't need or use.


Really you should just get some i3 system with like a 5450 for dual monitors. It would be more than plenty for everything your sister needs and it is no slouch.



Also, MTBF is a meaningless number. A product with 500000hr MTBF is 57 years but that's useless, it has no bearing whatsoever on the reliability or longevity of a device

 

[Axon]

Crucial 6 gig DDR3 kit is unnecessary, and the 1156 platform does not run triple-channel RAM.

GSkill RAM much better: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231193

Also, this is a flat out gaming system. Are you trying to sneak a gaming rig over to your sister's place or something?

 

[rtownsend]

OK. Overkill. Got it.

I'll back down the specs until I get something a little more reasonable.

Component update:
Memory: G.SKILL 4GB (2X2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ, $110

Are you trying to sneak a gaming rig over to your sister's place or something?

Honestly, no. Just trying to build a long-lasting, quiet, reliable, all-purpose computer.

If I didn't build a computer that could support gaming to some degree, there's a good chance I'll get ragged on the first time she tries it. But, I guess the 5850 is overkill. I could step back to a lesser card. I'm kind of an nVidia fan on the graphics side. What would be a good nVidia card to get? Remember: quiet and somewhat powerful. See, that's one thing about the 5850 - it's on that 40nm process, which makes it efficient (and quiet as a side effect?) power wise (from what I've read in reviews). But, I'm open to suggestions.

I want to build a computer that's barely audible at idle.

Personally, I won't build a system for myself until there's a die shrink on Fermi. I have needs for CUDA, and I want to wait... but that's another story...

 

[yh125d]

You're mistaken. 5850 isn't a "somewhat powerful" card, it's a very powerful $300+ gaming GPU. A "somewhat powerful" card would be something $75-100. Because I love analogies, you're buying an M5 for someone who might take a highway offramp sorta quick once or twice.

If you think your sister *might* in the future play a game or two, something like a $100 5750 would be a much smarter option.

 

[mfenn]

Uhhhh



Believe me, buying an expensive computer now so that it will still work in 5 years is a bad idea. You would absolutely be much better buying a modest machine. It is much better to buy two $1000 PCs in a six year span than one $2000 PC.

For one, your sisters needs are very modest. As in, a $500 dell would be more than plenty. Two, your proposed parts are more like what someone would buy for a heavy gaming rig, not a general light use PC. Don't make the mistake of buying a PC you don't need or use.


Really you should just get some i3 system with like a 5450 for dual monitors. It would be more than plenty for everything your sister needs and it is no slouch.



Also, MTBF is a meaningless number. A product with 500000hr MTBF is 57 years but that's useless, it has no bearing whatsoever on the reliability or longevity of a device

HD 5770 for Eyefinity. The hell do you need a 5850 for.

Cap the budget at $1000. Save the $1000 for in 3 years where you can buy a better one that will last you another 3 years.

You gain nothing by spending the extra grand now. The others have pointed this out. I'm reinforcing.

These guys pretty much covered everything I wanted to post!

One more thing, you've got a triple-channel memory kit in your updated list. While that will work, you won't get as good performance. You should go with either 2x2GB or 4x2GB.

Also, I like the idea of spending $800 on the computer and then using $600 to get two nice monitors. You can then save the other $600 for upgrades later down the line.

 

[rtownsend]

Component update:

Graphics: SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100283VXL Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card, $175

I'll wait to hear suggestions about nVidia alternative before final decision.

 

[rtownsend]

I think I'll try stock cooling, since I'm not overclocking. Is it quiet?

 

[yh125d]

If you want quiet and powerful enough, GTS250 isn't a bad option, but 5750 would be a better option IMO. Although I still think 5450 and an i3 is your best option...

 

[mfenn]

I think I'll try stock cooling, since I'm not overclocking. Is it quiet?

It's fairly quiet, not what I would call silent though. Especially not under load.

 

[Axon]

Yeah, you're not going to have much luck with any modern video card in the quiet and powerful arena...it's usually one or the other. That said, most of them sound fine when you're just surfing or even while playing a game, but when those fans start moving....it's like a jet engine or something.

Nvidia has no 5770 equivalent save its previous 200 line of cards, which are still quite good. Nvidia recently released the GTX 470 and 480, its "fermi" line, which cost $350 and $500, respectively. Both are considered hot, loud cards, but the 480 in particular wins out in most single GPU benches.

 

[rtownsend]

Almost there, I think.

NewEgg doesn't show a quad i3. Is that correct?

Motherboard: What's the opinion of this motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD4P. Is this overkill? Is there a better alternative? Any chipset problems, etc...

Changes:
Case, Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, $60
Is this a quiet case, along the lines of the Antec Sonata series?
Will the ATI 5770 fit inside? Will I regret this purchase for some reason?

 

[rtownsend]

So, if you back out Windows and the SSD premium, I'm basically at a $1000 build. Does this seem reasonable?

 

[yh125d]

i3 530 is a dual core with hyperthreading

5770 will easily fit in an antec 300, if you've set your mind on spending $175 for a GPU for no apparent reason :|