Success = Genes? In other words, you didn't deserve it?

[Zeze]

Well the title is obviously click-baity. But you know where I'm going with this.

I think Nature is very very dominant in terms of shaping who we are. Yes Nurture can make or break a person equally as much.

But let's assume, we're in a fantasy sandbox world where all upbringing are exactly the same. Since we're indulging in this, let's make it all the way. Somehow, all babies receive the exact same amount of love, education, opportunities, and same wealth/budget down to the dollar. And this is magically & impossibly same to every second in terms of granularity. Yes I know that makes no sense. The the aim is to create an environment that's close as possible.

And in this sandbox, let's say monetary success is directly tied to merit.

Then let's introduce 1000 babies. Some will obviously excel and succeed remarkably more than others. Yes, that person earned it with his/her hard ass work. But in a way, isn't it because of his/her genes? Genetics are Very strong of course, it dictates how we look, the way we internalize things, propensity for being motivated, etc.

---
In a way, that person got lucky to have those genes, no? Can one make an argument that he/she is merely lucky just as being born in trust fund or whatever?

I found some reading
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/minds-business/is-success-in-our-genes.html

 

[brianmanahan]

But you know where I'm going with this.

communism? in my ATOT? it's more common than you think!

 

[nakedfrog]

I've read a number of studies that tell me that being a reasonably attractive tall white dude have contributed to my success.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Picking wealthy parents is far more indicative of success than genes.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Is success is based on genetics, then why are we letting the stupid people reproduce? Isn't that basically making Idiocracy into a documentary instead of a comedy?

Let me clarify: Both of those were questions, not assertions.

 

[nakedfrog]

Is success is based on genetics, then why are we letting the stupid people reproduce? Isn't that basically making Idiocracy into a documentary instead of a comedy?

Let me clarify: Both of those were questions, not assertions.

People get reeaaallly uncomfortable when you start talking about eugenics.

 

[brianmanahan]

Is success is based on genetics, then why are we letting the stupid people reproduce?

because we don't live in a dictatorship that prioritizes its definition of success over all else

it was quite a popular idea before the world wars, but the nazis putting it into practice made people realize how barbaric it is

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

because we don't live in a dictatorship that prioritizes its definition of success over all else

it was quite a popular idea before the world wars, but the nazis putting it into practice made people realize how barbaric it is

Didn't know that jews had a low IQ....

I mean - aren't we kind of defying biology by allowing it though? Every force of nature we have ever seen that has runts of the litter do not continue to let those reproduce. It simply makes no sense from an evolutionary perspective.

 

[shortylickens]

I've read a number of studies that tell me that being a reasonably attractive tall white dude have contributed to my success.

Danny Devito and Joe Pesci prove this is more of a guideline than a law.

 

[Mai72]

Nope. Disagree.

Having healthy genes are important. I don't think anyone would disagree with that statement. But, genes aren't the dominating factor when it comes to being successful. IMO, much of it comes to mindset and the belief that you can pull it off. Einstein, Edison, Ford weren't born with superior genes. But, what they had was the willingness to work harder than most people, and they were people who took risks. Again and again and again. And, the willingness to suffer which is what most people will not do. In regard to wealth, how many young rich kids screw up their lives because they have it easy. Andy Reid's son overdosed on drugs. There are also many who are still getting handouts at 50 from their parents because they were never forced to grow up. I know a few.

Check out Tom Bilyeu and his Impact Theory channel on YouTube. Tom and his two partners started Quest Nutrition. Took it from 0-$1B in 5 years. It wasn't because of his superior genetics, and it wasn't because of luck, He was willing to work 16 hour days for many years, and he was willing to suffer. Plus, he had a change in mindset that allowed him to achieve success. Tom always says that he was the laziest person. Anyway, he talks about mindset and limiting beliefs a ton on his channel. The people who he has on his channel are amazing. Like Lisa Nicholas. The second wealthiest African American woman, next only to Oprah. She came from the ghetto. A single black mother in poverty. Another guest he had was the blade runner. A guy who runs marathons on those steel blades. Again, much of it is mindset. Genetics will help you when you're beginning in life, but it's not the dominating factor.

 

[eng2d2]

^its genetics. You will know this when you have your kids.

 

[Darwin333]

Is success is based on genetics, then why are we letting the stupid people reproduce? Isn't that basically making Idiocracy into a documentary instead of a comedy?

Let me clarify: Both of those were questions, not assertions.

At the least we should mandate that stupid people get knocked up by really smart people to bring their offsprings "smarticle" level up.

 

[Darwin333]

Nope. Disagree.

Having healthy genes are important. I don't think anyone would disagree with that statement. But, genes aren't the dominating factor when it comes to being successful. IMO, much of it comes to mindset and the belief that you can pull it off. Einstein, Edison, Ford weren't born with superior genes.

So any of us could be Einstein and if we just have the mindset and belief that we can pull off creating the Theory of Everything? That might be a bit more than Einstein's contribution but not much more consider the when.

 

[Mai72]

So any of us could be Einstein and if we just have the mindset and belief that we can pull off creating the Theory of Everything? That might be a bit more than Einstein's contribution but not much more consider the when.

Nope. There are no guarantees in life that you'd be in the same league as Einstein. Or Ford. Or Edison. Or Musk. You have to want it, work like hell to pull it off, and have the belief that you could do it, and even then it's a crap shot. IMO, people want things to be certain, but that's not the case.

 

[Mai72]

^its genetics. You will know this when you have your kids.

It's not genetics.

If it was genetics why then do people who are born into the same family go on to varying levels of success? Let's take Thomas Edison as an example. Mr Edison had 3 brothers and 3 sisters. Thomas was one of the most successful inventors EVER. Now, why have we never heard of his siblings? Thomas had kids as well. Why haven't we heard of them? They all shared the same genes. Again, it was the mindset of Thomas Edison and his willingness to become the greatest inventor of all time. He did that thru extreme pressure, the willingness to suffer and the audacity to believe that he could pull it off. In the face of criticism. In the face of everyone telling him that what he was trying to do was foolish. That is how he became successful.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I love all the "all you need is a plan and willingness to work hard folks." Look at so and so who took his company from zero to a gazillion bucks! Except zero is never zero. Poor Martha Stewart who only started with a house in Martha's Vineyard and two used Mercedes.

 

[Sonikku]

Even Forest Gump was a millionaire!

 

[Mai72]

I love all the "all you need is a plan and willingness to work hard folks."

Tom Bilyeu took Quest nutrition from $0-1B in 5 years.

Seriously though. It's all mindset. And as Henry Ford has stated in his famous quote "Whether You Think You Can or Think You Can't, You're Right."

And as Mike Tyson once stated "Everyone has a plan until they're punched in the face." lol, I love that quote. A plan and hard work are important. It doesn't mean that you're going to be successful, but if you're playing the long game, the more you work at that thing that you want to do the greater your chance that you'll find success. And, as Mark Cuban once stated "you only need to get right once." I love reading bios. This one entrapanure started at 20. Failed multiple times. About 12 startups. Then he broke thru at 30. He got the win via hard work, the willingness to suffer, and not willing to give up. That's inspirational. That's me though.

 

[Darwin333]

Nope. There are no guarantees in life that you'd be in the same league as Einstein. Or Ford. Or Edison. Or Musk. You have to want it, work like hell to pull it off, and have the belief that you could do it, and even then it's a crap shot. IMO, people want things to be certain, but that's not the case.

Sorry but that is just nonsense. People like Newton, Tesla, and Einstein had very special minds with crazy high IQs that was almost certainly genetic, likely some fluke that only happens in one in a billion people and realized to full potential in less. No way those people just worked like hell, had belief and won the crap shoot. Newton basically invented Calculus before he was 20 on a dare, the same shit even smart people have trouble learning today. We are now learning that Archimedes discovered shit that was lost to time and wouldn't be rediscovered for 1,500 years, that ain't no crapshoot my friend.

 

[ImpulsE69]

It's not genetics.

If it was genetics why then do people who are born into the same family go on to varying levels of success? Let's take Thomas Edison as an example. Mr Edison had 3 brothers and 3 sisters. Thomas was one of the most successful inventors EVER. Now, why have we never heard of his siblings? Thomas had kids as well. Why haven't we heard of them? They all shared the same genes. Again, it was the mindset of Thomas Edison and his willingness to become the greatest inventor of all time. He did that thru extreme pressure, the willingness to suffer and the audacity to believe that he could pull it off. In the face of criticism. In the face of everyone telling him that what he was trying to do was foolish. That is how he became successful.

You're missing a big piece here. Even your scenario is gene related. Just because one parent isn't the brightest bulb or one child isn't a straight A student, does not mean genetics can't make someone else smarter. Being Einstein is not anything the same as being the owner of your own plumbing business. You ARE correct that genetics is not the only part of it. You can be a genius and still not apply it, or be mentally unstable and self destructive, etc, but at the same time some things you simply cannot teach to some people. Much of success comes from applying what you are actually good at. Einstein would not have made a good football player, even with all the mathematics.

 

[Darwin333]

It's not genetics.

If it was genetics why then do people who are born into the same family go on to varying levels of success? Let's take Thomas Edison as an example. Mr Edison had 3 brothers and 3 sisters. Thomas was one of the most successful inventors EVER. Now, why have we never heard of his siblings? Thomas had kids as well. Why haven't we heard of them? They all shared the same genes. Again, it was the mindset of Thomas Edison and his willingness to become the greatest inventor of all time. He did that thru extreme pressure, the willingness to suffer and the audacity to believe that he could pull it off. In the face of criticism. In the face of everyone telling him that what he was trying to do was foolish. That is how he became successful.

Bah, Edison was a better businessman than an inventor. As far as inventors go Tesla kicked his ass bigtime and they lived at the same time in the same place.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

You can't start a startup without "some" capital to begin with. Even if it's credit cards, you can't start from zero. I'm the last 40 years I've been closer to zero more often than not. I've got skills, education, determination and suffering is a given. What I don't have is any startup capital or any foreseeable way to get some.

 

[ImpulsE69]

You can't start a startup without "some" capital to begin with. Even if it's credit cards, you can't start from zero. I'm the last 40 years I've been closer to zero more often than not. I've got skills, education, determination and suffering is a given. What I don't have is any startup capital or any foreseeable way to get some.

It really depends on what you are talking about. If the broader conversation is just straight up 'success' then that goes beyond having money to start a business. Being smart or talented also does not always mean success (such as artists only finding fame after they died). Most successful actors/bands had nothing when they 'made it'. It's not a cut and dry subject though. All of these things play into it, not necessarily in this order:

1. Genetics
2. Initiative
3. Determination
4. Money
5. Who you know
6. Timing

 

[Zeze]

It's not genetics.

If it was genetics why then do people who are born into the same family go on to varying levels of success? Let's take Thomas Edison as an example. Mr Edison had 3 brothers and 3 sisters. Thomas was one of the most successful inventors EVER. Now, why have we never heard of his siblings? Thomas had kids as well. Why haven't we heard of them? They all shared the same genes. Again, it was the mindset of Thomas Edison and his willingness to become the greatest inventor of all time. He did that thru extreme pressure, the willingness to suffer and the audacity to believe that he could pull it off. In the face of criticism. In the face of everyone telling him that what he was trying to do was foolish. That is how he became successful.

Have you read the article in OP? It directly mentions that mindset, motivation, constitution, determination, etc... where do they come from? Your genes.

 

[brianmanahan]

I mean - aren't we kind of defying biology by allowing it though?

that's messed up